What is a good level of defense for endgame

[Farkus]

My defense without defense boost and no modifiers/buffs is 667 but that still feels kinda low. My qurious crafting augmentations do add a bit more defense overall but I still feel pretty frail. What level of defense do you guys have on your setups?

[815|Shouldabeen]

that seems about right tbh. Most of my loadouts are even a bit lower. I tend to look for skills over defense.

[Egro]

I have over 1k but you only need around 800. lv 60+ anomaly quest will 2 shots you regardless if you have 800 or 1k.

[Farkus]

Originally posted by 815|Shouldabeen:

that seems about right tbh. Most of my loadouts are even a bit lower. I tend to look for skills over defense.

Yeah, I have the near perfect skill loadout, I was just worried that I might be too frail since I did compromise on some defense.

[ColonelBaker]

that's fine for defense. mine is lower due to augmenting. I prioritize skills over defense. Even defensive skills are stronger than actual defensive numbers. I get more use out of Divine Blessing, Defiance, Evasion skills, etc...

[BoiledTeaBag]

In master rank and especially investigations you might as well have 0 defence because your gear is just paper to high level anomaly monsters.

[CookedMeat]

You have the right amount of defense if you leveled up all your gears to max. If you are gunner, also eat for moxie to prevent one shot, because sacrificing offensive skills to turn a one shot into two shot is ridiculously waste of skill slots. If you are melee, you should still go for moxie if you aren't confident enough to avoid hyper-attacks from end game monsters.

No level of defense boost is better than collecting max HP birds, only use it if you really have spare slots. Divine Blessing is kinda junk, you will be better to trade the Lv2 slots for Evade skills, or even Redirection if you are feeling fancy an have Lv3 slot. Spiritbird Caller is a good Lv1 skill for long fights as it powers up you as you play.

Skills like Hellfire Mail that lowers your defense Doesn't matter much unless you went for Lv3. But your build itself probably have some serious issue if you really got it to level 3.

[Zelph]

Originally posted by CookedMeat:

You have the right amount of defense if you leveled up all your gears to max. If you are gunner, also eat for moxie to prevent one shot, because sacrificing offensive skills to turn a one shot into two shot is ridiculously waste of skill slots. If you are melee, you should still go for moxie if you aren't confident enough to avoid hyper-attacks from end game monsters.

No level of defense boost is better than collecting max HP birds, only use it if you really have spare slots. Divine Blessing is kinda junk, you will be better to trade the Lv2 slots for Evade skills, or even Redirection if you are feeling fancy an have Lv3 slot. Spiritbird Caller is a good Lv1 skill for long fights as it powers up you as you play.

Skills like Hellfire Mail that lowers your defense Doesn't matter much unless you went for Lv3. But your build itself probably have some serious issue if you really got it to level 3.

Defense boost 7 is MUCH better the spiribirds. Spiribirds do jackall for you stats unless you sit there for 5 minutes grabbing stuff. 30 extra defense, as opposed to the offensive petalace, is barely anything. While defense boost 7 provide 90 more defense then that with a base of 703. That is a pretty giant defense boost. Thats not counting all the ways you can stack defense on top of that. Spiribirds/defense boost/power drum/hunting horn boost/mega armor skin etc.

[CookedMeat]

100 extra defense when you already has 600 is a 17% boost
100 extra HP when you already has 150 is a 66% boost.

[FafnirChaos]

Gonna talk from the corner here and say fortify gives you a 30% defense boost(if your running below 600) that gives you the normal amount of defense you need when you "accidentally cart twice"

[CookedMeat]

Originally posted by FafnirChaos:

Gonna talk from the corner here and say fortify gives you a 30% defense boost(if your running below 600) that gives you the normal amount of defense you need when you "accidentally cart twice"

It's a very situational skill. For experienced players that cart once in a hundred fights, the skill is near useless.
For average players it is like a secondary insurance that may or may not work.
For new players, the extra defense boost might not be enough to save them from the third cart.

I'm not saying the skill is bad, but for the sake of consistency I would rather trade for another level of Evade, or even the first level of Defiance.

[FafnirChaos]

Originally posted by CookedMeat:

Originally posted by FafnirChaos:

Gonna talk from the corner here and say fortify gives you a 30% defense boost(if your running below 600) that gives you the normal amount of defense you need when you "accidentally cart twice"

It's a very situational skill. For experienced players that cart once in a hundred fights, the skill is near useless.
For average players it is like a secondary insurance that may or may not work.
For new players, the extra defense boost might not be enough to save them from the third cart.

I'm not saying the skill is bad, but for the sake of consistency I would rather trade for another level of Evade, or even the first level of Defiance.

It is a skill that needs a build around it, slotting it in to any build may help that build, but I run it at low health with heroics on pure raw it can do some massive damage. I'm looking at dereliction since it keeps me at 1 hp which triggers heroics, and dango adrenaline. When your that low on HP though the monster gets super excited and comes at you with everything so you need max Evade extender/window. Knowing the monsters moves is requirement otherwise quest failed.

Edit: also it's a D level skill, so it's super easy to add to armour, the jewel is garbage.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by CookedMeat:

100 extra defense when you already has 600 is a 17% boost
100 extra HP when you already has 150 is a 66% boost.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'll mention it here, as well. At 250 health (100 base, 50 dango, 100 birds), each point of defence adds 3.125 points of effective health. Without the birds, it's only 1.875. So yes, eating dango and collecting birds is TREMENDOUSLY helpful.

To be more specific with the mechanics, armour offers damage resistance, damage resistance offers effective health.

resistance = armour / (armour + 80)
effective_health = health / (1 - resistance)
effective health = health + health*(armour / 80)

That should offer a decent amount of perspective on effective mitigation. It doesn't account for various proc skills, obviously, but it's a good start.

[BoiledTeaBag]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Originally posted by CookedMeat:

100 extra defense when you already has 600 is a 17% boost
100 extra HP when you already has 150 is a 66% boost.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'll mention it here, as well. At 250 health (100 base, 50 dango, 100 birds), each point of defence adds 3.125 points of effective health. Without the birds, it's only 1.875. So yes, eating dango and collecting birds is TREMENDOUSLY helpful.

To be more specific with the mechanics, armour offers damage resistance, damage resistance offers effective health.

resistance = armour / (armour + 80)
effective_health = health / (1 - resistance)
effective health = health + health*(armour / 80)

That should offer a decent amount of perspective on effective mitigation. It doesn't account for various proc skills, obviously, but it's a good start.

Spiribird caller best new skill in the game, go hunt the monster and get your bonus stats as you hunt.

[lolschrauber]

Originally posted by Zelph77:

Originally posted by CookedMeat:

You have the right amount of defense if you leveled up all your gears to max. If you are gunner, also eat for moxie to prevent one shot, because sacrificing offensive skills to turn a one shot into two shot is ridiculously waste of skill slots. If you are melee, you should still go for moxie if you aren't confident enough to avoid hyper-attacks from end game monsters.

No level of defense boost is better than collecting max HP birds, only use it if you really have spare slots. Divine Blessing is kinda junk, you will be better to trade the Lv2 slots for Evade skills, or even Redirection if you are feeling fancy an have Lv3 slot. Spiritbird Caller is a good Lv1 skill for long fights as it powers up you as you play.

Skills like Hellfire Mail that lowers your defense Doesn't matter much unless you went for Lv3. But your build itself probably have some serious issue if you really got it to level 3.

Defense boost 7 is MUCH better the spiribirds. Spiribirds do jackall for you stats unless you sit there for 5 minutes grabbing stuff. 30 extra defense, as opposed to the offensive petalace, is barely anything. While defense boost 7 provide 90 more defense then that with a base of 703. That is a pretty giant defense boost. Thats not counting all the ways you can stack defense on top of that. Spiribirds/defense boost/power drum/hunting horn boost/mega armor skin etc.

I have def boost 7 but barely reach 700 base, simply due to all the def penalties my armor pieces got to even enable me to put def boost 7 as an additional skill, rather than one i'd sacrifice something for.

I would propably be better off with getting rid of the bonus slots i dont need and aim for +20 def instead of -10 on the pieces

[CovfefeCat]

Originally posted by CookedMeat:

You have the right amount of defense if you leveled up all your gears to max. If you are gunner, also eat for moxie to prevent one shot, because sacrificing offensive skills to turn a one shot into two shot is ridiculously waste of skill slots. If you are melee, you should still go for moxie if you aren't confident enough to avoid hyper-attacks from end game monsters.

No level of defense boost is better than collecting max HP birds, only use it if you really have spare slots. Divine Blessing is kinda junk, you will be better to trade the Lv2 slots for Evade skills, or even Redirection if you are feeling fancy an have Lv3 slot. Spiritbird Caller is a good Lv1 skill for long fights as it powers up you as you play.

Skills like Hellfire Mail that lowers your defense Doesn't matter much unless you went for Lv3. But your build itself probably have some serious issue if you really got it to level 3.

Lmao ignore almost everything this dude says.

Divine Blessing is mandatory once you get to higher anomaly levels. You should at least bring 1 point, to reduce how often you chug potions, but having 3 is often the best. It allows you to ignore chugging a potion every time you take a hit, and continue beating on the monster for the HP recovery from Bloodblight (plus Bloodrite if you have that skill equipped).

Increasing your HP at least a little with spiribirds is mandatory the higher your anomaly level gets, but having a higher defense level increases the effectiveness of your HP. Likewise having higher HP doesn't matter if you have no defense. Most people are running at least 3, usually 5 points of Defiance currently. I don't recommend that unless you absolutely have the free slots, I wouldn't force it. But having a free lv 4 deco slot to get the Hard Defense Jewel for 5 levels of Defense Boost is really strong once you start doing multi-monster hunts, thanks to the elemental resistances mainly.

Grabbing 3 points of the elemental resistance of your primary target should come before grabbing Defense Boost, unless your multi-monster quest has Apex monsters and you start dealing with more than 1 Element Type coming in.

Grabbing 2 points of Evade Window only increases your i-Frames on dodges from 3 to 5, I believe. Getting all 5 points gets you to 10 frames. If you can afford a few points, it won't hurt to grab them. Especially if you have Status Trigger / Adrenaline Rush / Bladescale Hone. Just note that it seems like Bladescale only triggers off of the first 3 i-frames of your dodge, and does not scale with Evade Window/Bubbly Dance like the other 2 skills do.

Also depends on your weapons. Insect Glaive doesn't need Defiance or Flinch Free. Certain Hunting Horns don't need them, either. Longsword generally doesn't need those skills, but it also doesn't need dodge related skills once you get better at the weapon. Greatsword can hyper armor a lot of mechanics, meaning you ideally want 3 points of Diving Blessing, and 5 points of Defense Boost.

TLDR; Your required defense is technically only as high as armor upgrades go, but certain weapons want higher defense, and others don't require as many skills that other weapons do at end-game. Just try to fit in Defense/Defiance/ElementUp as an after-thought once you fit in all the mandatory skills for your weapon.