Capcom's logic is really missing of logic

[Luxinae]

This isn't a thread to ask how to deal with Fire Espinas, i perfectly know what to do, i'm just pointing out everything that is illogical, badly made and confusing in MH games !

I just killed the new espinas and i annoyed me because the more i play monster hunter games, the more illogical they are to me.


I'm playing with my Lance and have been fine for the fight, not hard, not easy but i carted one time to his big blast because i was thinking "i put on my armor the skill "guard up" that is specifically made to survive very big attack + i have the little pet that allow you to survive very powerful attacks too". It didn't happen like i thought it would and got OS...

I don't understand the point of making very powerful attacks then making things to counter them and then making other things for monsters to counter my counter. Like i'm wasting slots of my stuff to put this skill that doesn't do his job. And you could think that the game would be too easy this way so they have to nerf it but i just have to sheathe my weapon and and jump on the ground, it's not hard, doesn't require any skill. If i don't try to block his blast, his blast is the attack that can kill me the least.

And this reminds me of the afflicted rakna kadaki. In master rank she has a double flamethrower that with "guard up" rank 1, one shot you, because it puts 50% hp but instead of taking this damage and being in safe mode for the next one, you are just tanking the next one too and dying... Not blocking with Lance is sometimes more optimal than blocking.


And another thing that isn't really linked to what i wrote above but i couldn't not think about it when i saw the new cinematic of espinas, am i the only MH fan that would expect to see teostra dying of anything else than a blast ? Especially from a monster that isn't even an elder dragon ?
Same goes for Rathalos, in french he is also called "king of sky". If in old monster hunter it was making a bit of sense, now i really think there are dozen of species that are flying and destroying rathalos pretty hard. I understand that they need to add powerful monsters to get more hype from the fanbase but isn't it killing what is left of storylines in monster hunter games ?

I might be missing something about all of this but from my point of view, it doesn't make sense at all.

[DaBa]

You do not understand game mechanics and misinterpret them, then you blame the game for not doing what you think it should do, all the while refusing to adapt to the challenge presented to you or heeding any actual advice that is in fact correct.

You are completely hopeless and in full denial, refusing to acknowledge plan facts put before you... If a thread full of people, who understand how the game works, explaining to you what's going is not enough to change your mind and realize who's in the wrong, then absolutely nothing will. Good luck bashing your head against a wall.

[Luxinae]

Originally posted by Seamus:

It works exactly as intended.

You're just somehow mad that an attack has a high damage multiplier and killed you through guard when you've got other options.

Just because you CAN block something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

It's called adapting.

Originally posted by Rogan:

I've ran flaming espinas multiple times on guard 5 and guard up 3. Can confirm that its explosion is unblockable. I survive, but I get knocked back and take damage as if I hadn't guarded at all.
Narwa nuke is blockable, silver rathalos's big fireball is blockable, qurio explosions are blockable. I don't know why they'd make an exception with espinas.
Can't tell if it's a bug or it's intentionally hard coded to ignore guard up. Either way, it devalues the guard up skill.

See this quote, it's not about damage multiplier, it's about the skill not even activating

Originally posted by DaBa:

You do not understand game mechanics and misinterpret them, then you blame the game for not doing what you think it should do, all the while refusing to adapt to the challenge presented to you or heeding any actual advice that is in fact correct.

You are completely hopeless and in full denial...

Just said i did adapt but you don't care isn't it ? Just trying to get steam points or what ?

[Seamus]

I feel like you've never played previous monster hunter games.

[SmallGespenst]

honestly the part that's obnoxious is that the follow up that isn't supposed to be a one-shot is still unblockable. what's the point of guard-up if the game is just going to start making attacks that ignore it? not really hard to deal with once you know, but it's an extremely rude trick that seems to exist solely to prank shield users.

[Seamus]

I swear, have y'all never played ANY previous game?

This isn't a new thing.

[DaBa]

Originally posted by SmallGespenst:

honestly the part that's obnoxious is that the follow up that isn't supposed to be a one-shot is still unblockable. what's the point of guard-up if the game is just going to start making attacks that ignore it? not really hard to deal with once you know, but it's an extremely rude trick that seems to exist solely to prank shield users.

Exactly, you got it. It works like this to screw with blocking. The same way there are attacks that screw with your ability to counter them, or ones that make it impossible to dodge them with iframes. Just because you're using Guard up doesn't mean you're instantly guaranteed to tank everything and anything, there are some things that will still throw you for a loop, for example attacks that hit many times in a row, or ones with larger AOE that will bypass your block completely due to positioning.

It has nothing with the game not working as it should, it's designed like this exactly to make fights more interesting, more challenging, and keep players on their toes. And learning what works when has always been a part of this series, this isn't Dark Souls where you need to know how to press one button to negate 99% of all attacks in the game.

[SmallGespenst]

Originally posted by Seamus:

I swear, have y'all never played ANY previous game?

This isn't a new thing.

and it's almost always ultimate attacks that are supposed to be unconditional instant death (like the first blast) and not big damage attacks like the second. also pins but that's an entirely different matter.

[Raster]

Originally posted by Luxinae UwU:

Originally posted by Raster:

The blast also has ticking damage afterward, even if you survive it. I survived with Moxie and died after. That's not new. Most prominently, you'll see stuff in World and Iceborne that consists of a ticking nova. It's just something new to deal with. If you can't deal with it in your preferred way, you adapt to meet the game on its own terms. Thinking it's illogical won't stop you from carting. Dealing with the move will.

If nobody talk about it, it will never improve.

It... doesn't need to improve.

It's like saying, I don't like Paralysis. Remove all attacks that paralyze from the game. Capcom won't unless we talk about it!

This kind of attack you're having issues with isn't "wrong," it's just different from what you're used to. That makes it a skill issue.

[DaBa]

It's funny because the way I see it this is all arguing in favor of worse and more boring game design, where everything works exactly the same way and is homogeneous. Do we REALLY want the game to play like this? I don't think so, it's more fun when some things sometimes don't work as you'd expect and you have to change how to play to adapt to them.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by SmallGespenst:

and it's almost always ultimate attacks that are supposed to be unconditional instant death (like the first blast) and not big damage attacks like the second. also pins but that's an entirely different matter.

So, yeah.

You've never played previous games.

[Jman]

I've been able to block the attack with Guard Up 3 and having about 820 defense using lance. I have like 3% HP left over with poison but I still block it lol.

Honestly I play very defensively when Espinas enrages, since then I have never been carted by his super blast. Yes it takes longer but you know, you don't fail the quest lol.

[Jman]

Originally posted by DaBa:

It's funny because the way I see it this is all arguing in favor of worse and more boring game design, where everything works exactly the same way and is homogeneous. Do we REALLY want the game to play like this? I don't think so, it's more fun when some things sometimes don't work as you'd expect and you have to change how to play to adapt to them.

Wouldn't be Monster Hunter if you didn't get carted by some unknown super natural force that demands you get insta-carted by the Monster Hunter Gods.

[SmallGespenst]

Originally posted by DaBa:

It's funny because the way I see it this is all arguing in favor of worse and more boring game design, where everything works exactly the same way and is homogeneous. Do we REALLY want the game to play like this? I don't think so, it's more fun when some things sometimes don't work as you'd expect and you have to change how to play to adapt to them.

the actual on-shot fireball is something I don't mind. it's (at least intended to be) an instant kill, as long as you pick up the tortoise you'll survive one (as long as you don't get up too fast or attempt a wirefall) so you'll know that "ah, this kills me" and can avoid it next time.
it's pretty well designed like that. I just dislike that the follow up it starts using later in the fight which just does heavy damage is also guard-up piercing unblockable 'cause literally the whole point of that skill is being able to block heavy damage attacks, so if you try to block it you just get pranked.
Super moves that do oneshots? not a problem if they're done well.
Attacks that break the game's established rules to prank you for the crime of expecting the game to work like it worked at every other point? bad design.

[SmallGespenst]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Originally posted by SmallGespenst:

and it's almost always ultimate attacks that are supposed to be unconditional instant death (like the first blast) and not big damage attacks like the second. also pins but that's an entirely different matter.

So, yeah.

You've never played previous games.

the problem is that I have played previous games so I expect crazy and unrealistic things like guard-up to work for almost all attacks, y'know, like it did in every past game.
Once again, it's not the one-shotting fireball that's the problem, it's the "get pranked, loser" follow up that's just tangentially related to a super move but decides to be completely unblockable anyway to prank lance/GL users.

[Seamus]

Can't say as I believe you as there are plenty of moves that go through guard up in earlier games.

Hell, world alone has multiple examples.