To flinch or not to flinch, that is the question.

[アンジェル]

This is my attempt to split a topic - or rather - to preserve a topic in a different thread, encouraging people to discuss the matter here instead there without surpressing the very interesting nature of the matter.

Originally posted by awanderingswordsman:

I disagree with advanced hunting parties "knowing their roles". If you need something specific, everyone but status should be going for it. If you don't, everyone should go for the best hitzone (typically the head).

Everyone should be running flinch free if their weapon is vulnerable to staggered because the team will do way more damage if everyone can share the best hitzone at the same time.

HOWEVER, you don't start with flinch free. When progressing through the ranks, absolutely consider where your attacks go. Once you get to HR 7 though, assume everyone has flinch free and if they don't, and they get tripped, thats their fault for not taking the highest dps and survivability 1 slot deco.

Originally posted by DaBa:

Originally posted by awanderingswordsman:

I disagree with advanced hunting parties "knowing their roles". If you need something specific, everyone but status should be going for it. If you don't, everyone should go for the best hitzone (typically the head).

Everyone should be running flinch free if their weapon is vulnerable to staggered because the team will do way more damage if everyone can share the best hitzone at the same time.

HOWEVER, you don't start with flinch free. When progressing through the ranks, absolutely consider where your attacks go. Once you get to HR 7 though, assume everyone has flinch free and if they don't, and they get tripped, thats their fault for not taking the highest dps and survivability 1 slot deco.

No, you cannot expect everybody to use an armor skill just so you can attack the same point. Not everybody will even if it's a great idea.

So, when you play with randoms, assume your positions and try not to get in each other's way.

Allow me to thank you both for that interesting input of yours. To honour your comments here is an additional reasoning why I did not put into the post "you must have flinch free":

I am personally convinced it suffice when the party knows what they do - but as an advanced hunter I also know that the decoration takes a slot. A slot which might or might not prevent you from having the perfect build. Taken that into consideration, I have opened up a new thread for you to discuss it. For, I like to see what others think - but without a disagreement which ends in a fight due two different yet valid opinions I both understand. Thank you for being great guys!

What are your thoughts? Must have? Or not?

[!?!]

Well you can either
a) slot flinch free
b) be mad forever that randos don't fall in line with your idea of how to play
c) play solo
Your choice.

[Seamus]

Flinch free is now a size 1 deco and there are very few size 1 decos worth using in rise.

There's no excuse to not have it once you can get the deco.

[SHOKK♥]

Does Flinch Free 1 stop you from getting sniped out of the air, I can't recall. The amount of times in Narwa a bow user just going tunnel vision and I got caught in the crossfire is too many.
Flinch Free 1 though ground wise is pretty much a must for multiplayer even when your weapon can ignore stagger while swinging, it takes just one opening to stump your character.

[awanderingswordsman]

Well my opinion is clear. It doesn't compete with damage skills and it improves both survivability and team damage drastically. You'd be a fool not to take it once you have access to the deco (which is HR 7 IIRC).

[amathy]

There's even less of an excuse to not use flinch free in Rise because it's a level 1 deco and does not compete with attack boost or crit eye anymore
The head is generally the best hitzone, players are going to go for it
The only players still refusing to use it and complaining about getting flinched are just being obnoxiously stubborn

[!?!]

Also by the way yes, flinching is bad game design and I don't know why it's still a thing.
The "solution" being a skill still sucks.

But do you want to be mad forever?
Randos are always gonna be randos and you can't change the game rules.

[overmage]

Originally posted by !?!:

Also by the way yes, flinching is bad game design and I don't know why it's still a thing. The "solution" being forced to put a skill into your build still sucks.

But do you want to be mad forever?

It's even applicable to real life. There are things in real life like stupid rules that are objectively unfair and shouldn't exist. And there often are very simple solutions to them that require a very tiny investment from your side. Most sane people would bite the bullet and take that small investment, but SOME folks would rather just whine that it's unfair and refuse to do anything and insist the world change for them. Like you said, they just want to be mad forever.

[SHOKK♥]

Originally posted by amathy oniichan uwu:

There's even less of an excuse to not use flinch free in Rise because it's a level 1 deco and does not compete with attack boost or crit eye anymore
The head is generally the best hitzone, players are going to go for it
The only players still refusing to use it and complaining about getting flinched are just being obnoxiously stubborn

Likely hood is they'd prefer Grinder if their Decoration slot economy is low if they have a bad Talisman.

[awanderingswordsman]

I feel like flinching was a solid idea before there was a way around it. It meant that situational awareness of your team was important and getting attack angles to share hitzones without tripping or knowing when it's better to go for another hitzone were valuable skills and made hunting with others feel more team oriented. Now you fight in multiplayer almost identically to how you fight solo.

[Metaspark]

I'm less frustrated by flinching and more by responses to it. "it's only a level 1 deco deal with it lol" like, ok, I have to make room in my set because you refuse to adjust? the level of the decoration is irrelevant, it's the principle of the matter, that because you're too lazy to adjust that you tell everyone around you to adjust to your whims. That's like walking into a room blasting obnoxious music and then telling anyone that complains to just "go somewhere else lol"

on top of that, heavier/explosive weapons require multiple levels of flinch free to prevent, and worst of all slotting it prevents allies from knocking me out of statuses

[Greb]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Flinch free is now a size 1 deco and there are very few size 1 decos worth using in rise.

There's no excuse to not have it once you can get the deco.

I don't need to type up multiple paragraphs like I always end up doing. I'll quote Seamus here because he managed to get to the point in like two sentences, lol.

Have to say that now you can craft decorations and not have to rely on RNG to get them, there's even less excuse not to slot it into your sets too.

Originally posted by Metaspark:

on top of that, heavier/explosive weapons require multiple levels of flinch free to prevent, and worst of all slotting it prevents allies from knocking me out of statuses

This is a good point you make though. You can't be hit out of Sleep status if you have Flinch Free 1 without significant force, I've noticed this - don't think it was the case in World, but I've seen plenty of people try to hit me out of sleepwalking when fighting stuff like Somnacanth and they're unable to do anything.

But compare the rarity-ish of Sleep using monsters compared to every single group hunt, and I think having Flinch Free is more useful in the long term. Unless the monster is truly frightening and can one shot you while you are Sleep with a big attack, I don't think getting put to Sleep is really a threat, just an inconvenience. A much smaller inconvenience than being stunlocked by an over-eager rapid fire LBG user or some crazy blindfolded Longsword user, anyway.

[amathy]

Originally posted by Metaspark:

like, ok, I have to make room in my set because you refuse to adjust? the level of the decoration is irrelevant, it's the principle of the matter, that because you're too lazy to adjust that you tell everyone around you to adjust to your whims.

You understand the irony of this, right? You're complaining about having to adjust by doing something exceptionally simple. If I can fit 5 other level 1 decos and still have room for flinch free, you can too.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by Metaspark:

I'm less frustrated by flinching and more by responses to it. "it's only a level 1 deco deal with it lol" like, ok, I have to make room in my set because you refuse to adjust? the level of the decoration is irrelevant, it's the principle of the matter, that because you're too lazy to adjust that you tell everyone around you to adjust to your whims. That's like walking into a room blasting obnoxious music and then telling anyone that complains to just "go somewhere else lol"

on top of that, heavier/explosive weapons require multiple levels of flinch free to prevent, and worst of all slotting it prevents allies from knocking me out of statuses

You don't want to get tripped?

Use the skill.

You don't do damage when you're flinching.

[Metaspark]

Originally posted by amathy oniichan uwu:

Originally posted by Metaspark:

like, ok, I have to make room in my set because you refuse to adjust? the level of the decoration is irrelevant, it's the principle of the matter, that because you're too lazy to adjust that you tell everyone around you to adjust to your whims.

You understand the irony of this, right? You're complaining about having to adjust by doing something exceptionally simple. If I can fit 5 other level 1 decos and still have room for flinch free, you can too.

1 person adjusting to 3 =/= 3 people adjust to 1. get over yourself

Originally posted by Seamus:

You don't want to get tripped?

Use the skill.

You don't do damage when you're flinching.

thank you for being the shining example of what I said

[Seamus]

Originally posted by Metaspark:

Originally posted by amathy oniichan uwu:

You understand the irony of this, right? You're complaining about having to adjust by doing something exceptionally simple. If I can fit 5 other level 1 decos and still have room for flinch free, you can too.

1 person adjusting to 3 =/= 3 people adjust to 1. get over yourself

Originally posted by Seamus:

You don't want to get tripped?

Use the skill.

You don't do damage when you're flinching.

thank you for being the shining example of what I said

Except you're part of the problem yourself.

You're asking three other people to adjust to you because you can't be bothered to give up one crap single slot.