I'm watching Bydo Side on Tactics II to get more info on Other Civiliation, wouldn't it be cool if:

[つづく]

We would get more of the Bydo ships in Final II? Maybe that's the 10+ extra ones we'll get. Another thing is sorry I had to bait, but I couldn't fit more in the topic.

[Kohryujin]

Some of the other unknown factions in the R-Type universe would make for some interesting ship ideas. The "Other Civilization" in particular already has a combo fighter just like the R9 and Forces, but because they don't use bydo based tech it's actually two fighters that can combine to up their firepower. Not only would that be cool as a ship, since your "force" would be an ai fighter with as much power as you, but it could be used as the base for an interesting co-op mode as well, where each player controls a ship.

There is also the Solar Guards used by the Solar Envoy, though you'd have to come up with a force equivalent for them to use. Not sure how that would go, but always up for more ideas from R-Type.

Not sure what else they could use from Tactics 2, maybe something from the other games?

[つづく]

yeah if they added "other civilisation" ships maybe we can get some frickin explanation to what the heck they were. the original target we created the bydo for? where did they come from? how did we meet them? were humans in the 26th century losing to them?

[Kohryujin]

Originally posted by Trrcn:

yeah if they added "other civilisation" ships maybe we can get some frickin explanation to what the heck they were. the original target we created the bydo for? where did they come from? how did we meet them? were humans in the 26th century losing to them?

Let me try to answer these from what I've been able to gather.

It does seem like the bydo were made to fight them, since you go after them during the bydo campaign for no other reason then they are there. Though instead of laying waste to their planet you just... leave after winning some battles? I guess the bydo proved they could do it if they wanted to?

As for if the 26th century humans were losing, probably? Remember, the current time humans didn't develop the tech they have until they had to deal with the bydo themselves, which means fighting the bydo probably forced an early tech revolution. And if you look at the fighters the Other Civs use, they look like more advanced R9 fighters, with the exception that they don't use bydo based tech. So the fight would likely be more even now... which means the bydo didn't need to exist in this timeline.

Hope that helps... though now I'm wondering how many timelines got made because of the bydo?

[TornadoADV]

Originally posted by Kohryujin:

Hope that helps... though now I'm wondering how many timelines got made because of the bydo?

So far, two, the original timeline with no bydo where humanity didn't have the R-series and the game timeline where humanity develops the R-series to fight the bydo. Could be a third depending on if the time travel ending in FINAL 1 is canon.

[つづく]

Originally posted by Kohryujin:

. Though instead of laying waste to their planet you just... leave after winning some battles? I guess the bydo proved they could do it if they wanted to?

The Bydo didn't get the directive to eradicate them, just eliminate the forces, probs. What was the original translation of the stuff at Stage 14? Funnily enough the english youtube uploader went from 4 straight to 15, so I didn't see any actual verbiage describing what anime SD cats said about the "other civilization". Before, As, and After Mission 14. There was even a dialog choice too.

What I find interesting is when escaping the hyperspace pit they just encountered the OC's ships. Maybe they were kinda "turned on" then, and went in to survival mode then BWAH ran in to the OC's ships. It's all weird and we need some closure.

here is mission 14:
https://youtu.be/ZdF6igwpfV4

[Kohryujin]

Ah, I can't answer that, at least not yet, I've been playing through Tactics 2 myself, but haven't gotten to the bydo campaign. If I do find anything interesting on that front, I'll of course bring it up here. But it will likely be quite some time, the game pulls no punches and some of the levels are set up extremely in the enemy's favor, often forcing you to learn the levels and improve your troops and tactics to stand a chance.

[phoenix_54d]

One of the possibilities - the one that's stuck to me the most from playing Tactics 2, is that the Bydo cause their own creation.

In Operation Last Dance, your fighter is sent to investigate a crashed colony. You may remember WHODUNIT Stage F-B is you decimating the local defenses of that colony, causing it to crash, causing you to go investigate it, causing you to eventually be converted to Bydo and go back in time decimating the local defenses of that colony without realizing what you've become

We also know how Humans reacted to Bydo in the 22nd century. More specifically we know exactly what they started making to fight them.

While it isn't earth, the assault on the "Other Civilization"; a place with awfully human-y architecture and ship design ("And if you look at the fighters the Other Civs use, they look like more advanced R9 fighters, with the exception that they don't use bydo based tech." as Kohryujin points out) rather neatly parallels what happened to the previous game's Bydofied fleet.

I: You show up unannounced, annihilate their military, then turn around and leave.
II: You show up unannounced, annihilate their military, then turn around and leave.

Meanwhile as far as the people fielding EX-Ftr44s are concerned this unknown civilization they couldn't even communicate with, made of nigh-unstoppable giant eldritch space monstrosities just showed up out of nowhere and massacred one of their star systems.

We already know Bydo wouldn't recognize a human if they ate one.
The more I replayed Tactics 2, the more convinced I became that the buggers caused their creation in both time loops.

[Algester]

Technically speaking mankind meeting Bydo is part of a Loop, in one loop in R-type final 1 you end up going back in time bringing news why mankind shouldnt make the bydo (you know a wave existence that doesnt exist in the physical realm to begin with) but guess what YOU brought with you a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ FORCE and you are from the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ FUTURE.

What is a force its piece of bydo guess what they did, thats right mankind innevitably reverse engineered both R-fighter and force and made the bydo earlier than expected.

Then you have the Metallic Dawn ending where you end up from stage 8 back to stage 1 making a stable time loop.

One thing is certain we still technically do not know why mankind ended up designing a wave existence weapon and just throw it out in space when its no longer needed.... why would you end up making whats equivalently an angel in Evangelion

[Hojo Norem]

Originally posted by Algester:

Technically speaking mankind meeting Bydo is part of a Loop, in one loop in R-type final 1 you end up going back in time bringing news why mankind shouldnt make the bydo (you know a wave existence that doesnt exist in the physical realm to begin with) but guess what YOU brought with you a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ FORCE and you are from the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ FUTURE.

Its been a while since I played that mission, but don't you go forward into the future?

I could be remembering this wrong, but I remember reading something somewhere that 26th century humanity was having problems developing the Bydo and could only complete it after seeing the tech on the craft, developed using Bydo based technology, that you pilot from the past. 26th century humanity completes the Bydo, puts them into storage into a pocket dimension and fire them off at the other civilisation. The Bydo activate prematurely, corrupt their pocket dimension and end up getting spat out back in time into whatever century R-Type takes place in.

[phoenix_54d]

Stage F-C is you crossing a couple of centuries forward, yes.
This may actually be a THIRD loop, making the Bydo something o a temporal bed-bug equivalent; you'd need the heat death of the universe to finally get rid of the damn things (temporarily).

Here's a few of the ones we have so far:

• Bydo get created in the 26th century as a weapon-against or response-to an unknown civilization. They wake up early and have to be flushed down the toilet by a dimensional superweapon.
  
• Bydo get created in the 22nd century as Forces and later human-side bio-fighters (and later straight-up dobkeratops with control rods) against Bydo with increasingly hazardous stability and control issues getting noted in that typical overly-passive report fashion.
  
• Bydo get created some time after 2501 as a result of a Curtain Call from 2163 being sent forward in time in hopes of preventing the creation of Bydo.

Now while it's possible the 26th century creation of Bydo is a bootstrap paradox involving Stage F-C, it's now also possible it was also caused by a Bydo attack - an assault by an unknown civilization so horrible creating the Bydo seems like a good idea at the time.

So either Bydo are created in the 26th century as a result of another civilization, OR Bydo are created in the 26th century anyways as a result of an R-100 travelling there, OR Bydo are created way earlier in response to Bydo attacks from the future by Humanity, OR Bydo are created in response to Bydo from the 22nd Century travelling to the 26th century after getting lost in search of 22nd century Earth...

So Bydo get themselves created no matter what as a result of showing up, or as a result of not showing up. Wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey porn.

Also fun fact, the trip to 2501 has you starting in the year of the FIRST Bydo war to travel forward, and not Operation Last Dance.

We also 'know' that Earth had known of Bydo being potentially a thing as far back as 2120ish, when some flesh was found. 14 years later a straight-up Force is found in the middle of what used to be a region of space with a lab in it - and it's the only thing left in the area.

[TouyaShiro]

I thought 26th Century humanity were just fearful of what they had created, not that they activated early...

Also, why Curtain Call for F-C? You know you can use any ship you want for that stage, right...?

[Somali Pirate Radio]

Originally posted by TouyaShiro:

I thought 26th Century humanity were just fearful of what they had created, not that they activated early...

Also, why Curtain Call for F-C? You know you can use any ship you want for that stage, right...?

Probably because of Curtain Call's description.
"The R-99 ended R-fighter development, but this unit was made to transmit the technology to future generations. "

That DOES make it sound like the most appropriate fighter for a time-travel operation.

[Algester]

Originally posted by Somali Pirate Radio:

Originally posted by TouyaShiro:

I thought 26th Century humanity were just fearful of what they had created, not that they activated early...

Also, why Curtain Call for F-C? You know you can use any ship you want for that stage, right...?

Probably because of Curtain Call's description.
"The R-99 ended R-fighter development, but this unit was made to transmit the technology to future generations. "

That DOES make it sound like the most appropriate fighter for a time-travel operation.

not its basically a ship that was meant to be easily reverse engineered hence why its also the first of the 3 ships thats capable of mounting every single weapon in the game

Last Dancer, Curtain Call and Grand Finale are just iterations of each other (take note Curtain Call's design harken some of the shapes they made for the Bydo line of ships) while the Last Dancer still retain the R-type's basic shapes, the Grand Finale does seem to have some of more the outlandish designs the Space had to offer the canopy in question looks similar to the Wise Man series

[Somali Pirate Radio]

Originally posted by Algester:

Originally posted by Somali Pirate Radio:

Probably because of Curtain Call's description.
"The R-99 ended R-fighter development, but this unit was made to transmit the technology to future generations. "

That DOES make it sound like the most appropriate fighter for a time-travel operation.

not its basically a ship that was meant to be easily reverse engineered hence why its also the first of the 3 ships thats capable of mounting every single weapon in the game

Well, yes, that was the meaning I took away as well. But I can understand how someone would think it was meant to carry that technology forward more literally.

And it is the second of the three ships. Curtain Call is R-100. R-99 Last Dancer was the first of the three.

[TouyaShiro]

Originally posted by Somali Pirate Radio:

Probably because of Curtain Call's description.
"The R-99 ended R-fighter development, but this unit was made to transmit the technology to future generations. "

That DOES make it sound like the most appropriate fighter for a time-travel operation.

That description simply means it's a time capsule, not that the ship itself travelled to the future - though that in itself could very well provide yet another explanation for why 26th Century humanity are able to create the Bydo in the first place.

You know what really gets me, on that note? R-Type Final 2's mission objective... is to chronicle the history of the Bydo War for future generations to see. With enough records and R's Museum, maybe one could end up creating the Bydo using that material.