Time bonus objective

[Sirscientist]

Probably already been said, but only part im not enjoying right now, RTS campaigns is just not about being fast, its about base building and making a massive army and all that, planning a strat. Sure some games have a mission or 2 with a timer or ya lose, they're not always fun lol.

I'd like the unit upgrades you get from the time bonus objective but i just ain't all about it. Ruins the fun trying to smash a mission out in 15 minutes. I'd rather a third hard objective. Otherwise the more simple idea is raising the time on each mission to feel less tight. Think one mission it wanted me to do it in like, either 15 or 20 mins, i spent a solid 45-60 on that mission. Just playing on normal difficulty. Was the collect the special info crate or whatever mission.

[Omicron-0B]

In terms of the principle: Speed was always a thing for high level RTS play. Tournament level StarCraft was always about speed. Back when the C&C remaster launched the quickmatch lobby wasn't having half hour slog fests - rather, either a Nod Buggy rush won the match in 10 minutes or whatever comparably fast trick my opponent pulled would end it in less time than that. Similarly back when 8-Bit Armies/Hordes/Invaders had a reliable quickmatch lobby. I don't like to say "git gud scrub" but as we're talking about optional objectives, most of the objections to that sentiment do not really apply. And rewinding back to Red Alert 2 in my actual childhood, every campaign mission had a special reward message for completing it sharpish.

In terms of the practical details: I got gold on the first few missions, haven't fully finished the campaign and I feel like a lot of it is balanced on the assumption that you have to keep retrying to get hard upgrades to your units making them objectively more powerful in order that they be able to complete the objectives in the limited time you're given.

[GrimToadstool]

Nothing against getting players to hurry up, but It kinda feels wrong as a bonus objective though. I'd rather have it that the shortest time it took to complete a mission gets displayed instead of making some arbitrary time a hard bonus objective. The logic is also somewhat weird, because in order to complete the mission in a timely fashion, you need to get veterancy and bonuses, of which half are time rewards.
Then again, the current take isn't hurting anything, so no worries. Timelimits for primary objectives would be more of an issue though.

[Drekisol]

personally i think it directly alienates a large portion of the community. not all rts players play the same way or for the same reason, just like how people play mmo's for different reasons. by locking out objectives behind time gating you are directly alienating a large portion of the community that plays these games to relax and have a good time. i don't think having time being a special acknowledgement is a bad thing i just think that gating progression behind it is a terrible idea.

an alternative that doesn't cause discourse between player types is to have optional alternatives, things like eliminate all enemies on the map or complete both objectives in 20 min. these kinds of options play into both player types, can even have special alternatives like find x hidden item on map.

having every gold star being locked behind time gated objectives limits your games enjoyment to only one small subset of players, doesn't help that players that like to play slow and methodically also tend to be completionists compounding the issue.

[EvenMoarDakka]

I will add.. I don't see anyway that "The hidden truth" can be completed with both objectives within 20 minutes.

up till then, gold objectives were rather doable (on normal)

[Draktok]

Diposting pertama kali oleh EvenMoarDakka:

I will add.. I don't see anyway that "The hidden truth" can be completed with both objectives within 20 minutes.

up till then, gold objectives were rather doable (on normal)

I'm attempting it now...

But yeah, i agree with OP - my base ends up being a scattered mess of 9 motor pools in various directions in order to have closer places to place refineries while i pump out tanks. On mission 3, i built around 140 tanks to beat the gold on normal.

[GrimToadstool]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Drekisol:

personally i think it directly alienates a large portion of the community. not all rts players play the same way or for the same reason, just like how people play mmo's for different reasons. by locking out objectives behind time gating you are directly alienating a large portion of the community that plays these games to relax and have a good time. i don't think having time being a special acknowledgement is a bad thing i just think that gating progression behind it is a terrible idea.

an alternative that doesn't cause discourse between player types is to have optional alternatives, things like eliminate all enemies on the map or complete both objectives in 20 min. these kinds of options play into both player types, can even have special alternatives like find x hidden item on map.

having every gold star being locked behind time gated objectives limits your games enjoyment to only one small subset of players, doesn't help that players that like to play slow and methodically also tend to be completionists compounding the issue.

I think that hit the nail pretty much on the head. Audience Alienation. The issue isn't so much mechanical, but perceptual. I bet a lot of folks will want to fire up the game for quick round without getting too swetty palms. Plus we're all getting older now. And the time pressure feels just wrong. It's a bit like: "Yeah, you know those games you liked back then, we'll we're iterating on the classics, like when you were younger, but guess what you're now slow and not good enough anymore, old timer, and we're gonna rub it in your face."

Plus, is there anyone anywhere who actually likes time-limits? Speedgamers don't need them, because they are already competing for the best time. Pros are indifferent and Casuals feels pressured and unwelcome.

[Draktok]

can tanks really not gather crates? am I missing something?

[Soviet_Ponys]

Diposting pertama kali oleh EvenMoarDakka:

I will add.. I don't see anyway that "The hidden truth" can be completed with both objectives within 20 minutes.

up till then, gold objectives were rather doable (on normal)

A friend and me managed to get the gold objective on hard done but we had to grind until we got paradrops unlocked later in the campaign. Still, we had to try multiple times because the timer is just unjustified.

[PG_Dave]

Hidden Truth gold timer is too short (known balance issue based on feedback) so don't frustrate yourself trying in on first run.

[EvenMoarDakka]

Diposting pertama kali oleh PG_Dave:

Hidden Truth gold timer is too short (known balance issue based on feedback) so don't frustrate yourself trying in on first run.

Not just the timer, the enemy players also are RELENTLESS ,i only beat it after an hour and half grind where ionly made progress after the enemy depleted their oil deposits, since they dont expand, then they stopped attacking (but still could produce units to replace lost defenders)

[Seth NoWai]

Yeah, glad to see it is considered an issue. Like I get timer, but I play on easy, because I want to chill and I do think it should scale with difficulty, if there has to be timer. Came here after seeing if I could hack on bit more of time. Because if game doesn't play nice, I see no reason why I should. :-D Still kind of shame to see it wasn't quick fixed by adding time.

[PG_Dave]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Seth NoWai:

Still kind of shame to see it wasn't quick fixed by adding time.

Hidden Truth Gold objective was increased to 30 minutes (from the original 20) - along with a ton of other changes to that mission based on Player feedback (Adjusted AI, Objective Locations, Extra Unit Crates, etc)

[MindlessTeef]

None of the usual "get good" nonsense? A polite and civilised conversation! I am already liking the community here!

I love Petroglyph, keeping the Westwood Studios days alive! Considering picking up this game, but I am very much put off by these time restrictions. Strategy games should never be rushed, I have held to this opinion since falling in love with the turn-based and real-time strategy genre in the late 80's!

This is Firaxis' degree lazy game design, trying to force player to "get it over and done with". Hoping the dev will add a game setting for us turtles... I'll buy the game so long anyway!

[Schism Navigator]

Hmm, I am now wondering if we could do a sort of "untimed" difficulty mode. Letting players unlock everything whilst not under the pressure of a timer.

[UnBlessed]

Well, that will be nice to novice players with no timing pressure.

Maybe can set something like if complete timing object, will give more bonus to next campaign, like maybe more resource at first, or extra building in early time.

So novice players can practice by campaign, after unlock all things, can try to push their limit, also know they can do it even there is time pressure.

Another way is add a random mission mod, will start at random skirmish map, with some different kinds of object, maybe add few time pressure object, after finished, will give bonus reward, then map will be more and more difficult, like unlimited mode in some games.