Settling the Hands arguements.

[LieutenantDevil]

I think both sides really need to take a chill pill here.

Yes, Family had to deal with Danny for 7 months before they could do anything about it. Though it is unfair to now ♥♥♥♥ on Victims and tell them "Now you have to deal with Hands for a while."

Personally I'm a Family main, always have been.

Here's what I think will make both sides relatively happy:

- Give Hands a longer CD on Ripstall, make it more punishing to use prematurely.
- Improvements to Hands Barge Mechanic.

Elaborating on the Barge improvements:

In his Defensive Stance, from what I have observed from playing as him, actively does nothing but drain his stamina, I still get grappled by Victims and barged by Leland even though Hands is supposed to be actively defending himself and the small radius around him.

So my suggestion:

- Improve the range on his barge by a small margin, to increase the consistency of using the Barge Mechanic.
- Grapple/Barge attempts on Hands in this stance end up in the Victim being barged automatically.

The Barge will essentially function the same way it does now, but give Hands more defensive prowess and fulfil his role as a Family member who has "Area Lock-down" expertise.

As for the Ripstall CD being increased, I think it is obvious enough as to why it should be increased, even I can see that it is far too short for what it does.

[Hex: Legal Alien]

Literally this, his ability just needs some finetuning. I'd give my own two cents but I'd just be repeating what you said. People really need to calm down and play as and against the character before crying for huge nerfs.

[LieutenantDevil]

Originally posted by DirectorHail:

Literally this, his ability just needs some finetuning. I'd give my own two cents but I'd just be repeating what you said. People really need to calm down and play as and against the character before crying for huge nerfs.

Never played against the character, but I've played enough Victims to understand what a Victim might be going through mentally in terms of what happens during a game or what happens to them in a situation.

A Virginia was about to escape through battery on Slaughterhouse, I was there, she ran to the exit, I fumbled a bit pressing RMB to ripstall the battery but I got her last second and heard her get zapped. It's tough, but she should've known that since I was there, her chances of escaping were extremely low in an instant, it was poor adapting on her part and mostly just unlucky that I was there to stop her and not any of my two teammates. By the time I sorted things out there and got back to the middle, my ability was already like 75% charged, it's crazy.

[Rhys]

Tbh, when i play as victim, I really enjoy when the family feels strong. I like how much Hands has slowed the game down on the victim side and how he actually counters some of the victims. The game became really stale for me when I was escaping within 2 minutes most games. Having more of a challenge and having to change your play style a bit now when going up against Hands has made the game more enjoyable for me again when playing as victim since the games actually last longer

[LieutenantDevil]

Originally posted by Rhys:

Tbh I really enjoy when the family feel really strong. I like how much Hands has slowed the game down on the victim side and how he actually counters some of the victims. The game became really stale for me when I was escaping within 2 minutes most games. Having more of a challenge and having to change your play style a bit now when going up against Hands has made the game more enjoyable for me again when playing as victim since the games actually last longer

I recognise that name, think I played against you a few months back. You don't have too hard of a name to remember XD

Don't remember how the match went though.

And yeah, Family should be the power role and escaping should be rewarding rather than what the rush-meta was before Hands released. I doubt anyone enjoyed the 2 minute games aside from the people who planned only on bullying Family, but then Empowered got nerfed so.

[EvilJoshy]

I don't think his ripstall needs a longer cd. Victims just need to do 2 things at once. Or open the fusebox, get him to use ripstall then open the pressure valve.
As for barge, yeah it sucks and I see zero reason to ever use it.
Personally I think hands should be immune to grapple due to his size like bubba.

[LieutenantDevil]

Originally posted by EvilJoshy:

I don't think his ripstall needs a longer cd. Victims just need to do 2 things at once. Or open the fusebox, get him to use ripstall then open the pressure valve.
As for barge, yeah it sucks and I see zero reason to ever use it.
Personally I think hands should be immune to grapple due to his size like bubba.

I don't think giving him grapple immunity would do any favours for anyone. Maybe in the future they can think about introducing that sort of thing, but right now, it has no place.

He already has reduced stun time from what I've noticed, door slams feel less punishing and grapple stuns feel shorter.

Ripstall recharges too quickly to be considered fair. By the time I deny an escape one way, I can patrol for a few seconds, feed grandpa or something, and it's already back.

[RealBadNewsWashingtonTTV]

Originally posted by EvilJoshy:

I don't think his ripstall needs a longer cd. Victims just need to do 2 things at once. Or open the fusebox, get him to use ripstall then open the pressure valve.
As for barge, yeah it sucks and I see zero reason to ever use it.
Personally I think hands should be immune to grapple due to his size like bubba.

Agreed, like Danny is perfect still for this.

Have Danny rush for Fusebox, and have someone else aim for valve, make sure whoever is at Valve do it first. Hands will foolishly go to Valve and Ripstall it which is where you have Danny immediately use his knowledge to flip the fusebox. Boom. You now have around 55 seconds (if Hands has his 40% CD reduction on his ability selected) to freely escape the basement.

EDIT: There is an alternative plan too. Have 2 Characters Rush the fusebox (preferably one being Danny) and have both holding a Fuse. Have Danny use his knowledge to flip the switch initially but also make sure he has a scrap. Hands will come over and ripstall, have Danny take some hits and grapple while the 2nd victim puts in the fuse and flips the switch (and since its still tampered, no one can flip the switch until Hands gets back his ripstall ability which is still sitting on cool down at this point for another 30-40 seconds, if not longer if he does not have his 40% CD)

[LieutenantDevil]

Originally posted by RealBadNewsWashingtonTTV:

Originally posted by EvilJoshy:

I don't think his ripstall needs a longer cd. Victims just need to do 2 things at once. Or open the fusebox, get him to use ripstall then open the pressure valve.
As for barge, yeah it sucks and I see zero reason to ever use it.
Personally I think hands should be immune to grapple due to his size like bubba.

Agreed, like Danny is perfect still for this.

Have Danny rush for Fusebox, and have someone else aim for valve, make sure whoever is at Valve do it first. Hands will foolishly go to Valve and Ripstall it which is where you have Danny immediately use his knowledge to flip the fusebox. Boom. You now have around 55 seconds (if Hands has his 40% CD reduction on his ability selected) to freely escape the basement.

EDIT: There is an alternative plan too. Have 2 Characters Rush the fusebox (preferably one being Danny) and have both holding a Fuse. Have Danny use his knowledge to flip the switch initially but also make sure he has a scrap. Hands will come over and ripstall, have Danny take some hits and grapple while the 2nd victim puts in the fuse and flips the switch (and since its still tampered, no one can flip the switch until Hands gets back his ripstall ability which is still sitting on cool down at this point for another 30-40 seconds, if not longer if he does not have his 40% CD)

I guess the main issue people have is the lack of co-ordination, solo queue this won't happen and Hands can be oppressing, perhaps that is why many people complain about him, on a competitive and communicative setting, he's weaker than people think he is.

[Vegi]

hands is fine. it just means you have to rethink how you play.

[EvilJoshy]

Originally posted by RealBadNewsWashingtonTTV:

Originally posted by EvilJoshy:

I don't think his ripstall needs a longer cd. Victims just need to do 2 things at once. Or open the fusebox, get him to use ripstall then open the pressure valve.
As for barge, yeah it sucks and I see zero reason to ever use it.
Personally I think hands should be immune to grapple due to his size like bubba.

Agreed, like Danny is perfect still for this.

Have Danny rush for Fusebox, and have someone else aim for valve, make sure whoever is at Valve do it first. Hands will foolishly go to Valve and Ripstall it which is where you have Danny immediately use his knowledge to flip the fusebox. Boom. You now have around 55 seconds (if Hands has his 40% CD reduction on his ability selected) to freely escape the basement.

EDIT: There is an alternative plan too. Have 2 Characters Rush the fusebox (preferably one being Danny) and have both holding a Fuse. Have Danny use his knowledge to flip the switch initially but also make sure he has a scrap. Hands will come over and ripstall, have Danny take some hits and grapple while the 2nd victim puts in the fuse and flips the switch (and since its still tampered, no one can flip the switch until Hands gets back his ripstall ability which is still sitting on cool down at this point for another 30-40 seconds, if not longer if he does not have his 40% CD)

Slight problem with the 2 people carry a fuse plan. Hands has a perk where after he ripstalls something it cant be interacted with for 30 secs.

[Nito [Ger]]

Originally posted by LieutenantDevil:

Originally posted by RealBadNewsWashingtonTTV:

Agreed, like Danny is perfect still for this.

Have Danny rush for Fusebox, and have someone else aim for valve, make sure whoever is at Valve do it first. Hands will foolishly go to Valve and Ripstall it which is where you have Danny immediately use his knowledge to flip the fusebox. Boom. You now have around 55 seconds (if Hands has his 40% CD reduction on his ability selected) to freely escape the basement.

EDIT: There is an alternative plan too. Have 2 Characters Rush the fusebox (preferably one being Danny) and have both holding a Fuse. Have Danny use his knowledge to flip the switch initially but also make sure he has a scrap. Hands will come over and ripstall, have Danny take some hits and grapple while the 2nd victim puts in the fuse and flips the switch (and since its still tampered, no one can flip the switch until Hands gets back his ripstall ability which is still sitting on cool down at this point for another 30-40 seconds, if not longer if he does not have his 40% CD)

I guess the main issue people have is the lack of co-ordination, solo queue this won't happen and Hands can be oppressing, perhaps that is why many people complain about him, on a competitive and communicative setting, he's weaker than people think he is.

It always baffles me that not even steam/PC players are using text chat for some simple call outs, like: Hey, I'm on fuse box right now. Get ready if you're in basement/near basement exit.