How to fix the learning cliff

[Bech]

I had mild interest in this game and was enthusiastic about downloading a demo.

Turns out, there's a learning cliff. Nothing is intuitive, nothing is explained. There are no clear cut goals to work towards (loot areas, find critical information, fix a problem, kill all baddies and be a warlord, whatever) - you are just thrown into a desert map with no instructions at all.

Do you need supplies? Do you need to worry about things like hunger, thirst, first aid? Do you need to take money with you? Is there some kind of functioning economy where you can buy and sell things? Is there any customization or is it planned? Nothing is explained.

The spawn areas are all known and other players will simply wait for you to spawn in, then kill you. Learning how things work doesn't even enter into the equation - there's no time to learn before you get cut down.

Solutions:
- Fix the intuitive issues - particularly the build system
- Have clear cut, simple and easily understood goals to work towards.
- Have a test/practice area for players to figure out how things work - how the guns fire and reload, how to use them properly, how to fix things, how do your tools work, how to best construct a walker so it survives longer, etc...
- Randomized spawn locations to minimize camping
- If you want a certain behavior, then incentivize it. If you want people to explore, loot, make things, generally improve their lot in life - then reward that behavior. If you want them to be complete a-holes and sit and wait for someone to spawn in and then destroy them because they think it's funny, then reward that behavior.

[Palad1n]

Yup, 100% agree on these points. Devs need to provide an instanced PvE area for players to learn along with a tutorial on how to actually do things. As it is now, this is just a tech demo with try hard griefers that just want to blow up everyone they can who spawns in, with no desire to let anyone actually learn how to play.

[vulp]

The spawncamping will not be rewarding at all in the finished game i think.
In this demo every building block costs just 1 resource so you can basically spam tramplers like crazy. When prices get balanced though, you can more or less only get ammo and the trampler as loot from spawncamping and not really enough resources to do anything useful with.
On another note i did not have any spawncampers in my games, not a single one. Maybe they got bored, maybe i was lucky. There is only so much fun you can have when sitting around and waiting for people to blow up.

A tutorial is definitely needed very much. Despite this, i didn't really have trouble understanding driving controls, navigation/map reading and loot acquisition.
This is maybe just a difference in preferences though. I'd rather learn at my own pace with a little help when needed instead of a painfully long tutorial that explains every little detail to me.

I hope they change some stuff so you guys can give the game another try.

[Bech]

Originally posted by vulp:

The spawncamping will not be rewarding at all in the finished game i think.
In this demo every building block costs just 1 resource so you can basically spam tramplers like crazy. When prices get balanced though, you can more or less only get ammo and the trampler as loot from spawncamping and not really enough resources to do anything useful with.
On another note i did not have any spawncampers in my games, not a single one. Maybe they got bored, maybe i was lucky. There is only so much fun you can have when sitting around and waiting for people to blow up.

A tutorial is definitely needed very much. Despite this, i didn't really have trouble understanding driving controls, navigation/map reading and loot acquisition.
This is maybe just a difference in preferences though. I'd rather learn at my own pace with a little help when needed instead of a painfully long tutorial that explains every little detail to me.

I hope they change some stuff so you guys can give the game another try.

To put a fine point on what I was talking about, I will use an example: I spawned in, climbed the ladder to the rig and started looking around.

There was some kind of storage compartment - in this compartment was a box about the size of a suitcase on a shelf. It gave me the option to take this box with me.

Well, why would I do that? For what purpose would I need this box? What else can I do with it? Is it only me who has access to it or can others just walk in and take it? If that is true, then do I put loot in it or is there someplace else for loot?

As far as loot, well, where is it? What even constitutes "Loot"? Spare parts? Fuel? Ammunition? Rare building components? Precious metals? Human skulls? Paper currency? I never found out - because I died constantly. And no answer was ever offered. I saw something burning over a distant hill and started towards it, but always died to some random f***head who was waiting for someone to show up so he could kill them.

Weapons - well, what is the drop on shots fired? Can you shoot to the horizon or is it more like a t-shirt cannon at a basketball game? What kind of damage does each weapon do? No idea - only got dead and the one time I got on a gun I died.

Sea of Thieves suffers from this same affliction - sadistic, psychopathic behavior is rewarded and so this is what you get. It is also why SoT is dying. Shame - It could have been awesome. It's been hot garbage for awhile, so I abandoned that as well. Instead of fixing the problems, they just offered more brightly colored ♥♥♥♥♥ that fixed nothing.

I hope this does not go that way. Game looks to have *some* potential.

[Bech]

Originally posted by Malachi:

Yup, 100% agree on these points. Devs need to provide an instanced PvE area for players to learn along with a tutorial on how to actually do things. As it is now, this is just a tech demo with try hard griefers that just want to blow up everyone they can who spawns in, with no desire to let anyone actually learn how to play.

I would be happy with an empty sandbox/arena type test area where you can try out builds, see how your walker is configured, how it could be improved to your liking, speed, maneuverability, how it might fare at repelling boarders, etc. Things to shoot at that react so you can see how effective your weapons are, etc. I never even found out how the repair tool worked.

[Nim]

Originally posted by Bech:

I would be happy with an empty sandbox/arena type test area where you can try out builds, see how your walker is configured, how it could be improved to your liking, speed, maneuverability, how it might fare at repelling boarders, etc. Things to shoot at that react so you can see how effective your weapons are, etc. I never even found out how the repair tool worked.

The repair tool works by holding left click on the thing you want to repair. Broken pipes, broken guns, broken electrical boxes that control doors, etc.

But +1 there needs to be a test-drive option in the walker designer so you can check your walker out for issues in FP before you bring it into an actual expedition.

[Kraehe]

Honestly, disagree. It´s really not that deep.
Do I need food? Oh I dunno, maybe read the description of the food.
What to do? Its a desert, there are only so many points of interest to investigate. See a shipwreck? Might have loot. Literally everything else is on the map you can look at at any time.
Trading spots, cities, and BIIIIG door icons that suggest that you should extract at some point when you have gathered some loot.

How do I control my trampler? Go interact with the control panel and all the buttons will be shown on screen.
Trampler doesn´t do anything. Well, probably have to power up that big ass generator thats on top of all the starting tramplers.
Do you need supplies? Yea probably a good idea to at least bring some cannon ammo along.

In all the matches I´ve played I also haven´t been spawn camped once.
So if this is a regular occurance for you, you have to be either really unlucky with the spawns you get (with players nearby), or REAAALLY slow in getting your trampler moving.

I´m not saying a tutorial wouldn´t be helpful. But to say this game has a learning CLIFF is entirely exaggerated.

[JayAyyCee]

Hey there,

The demo was very much a vertical slice of what SAND is set to become as we continue to develop it, and as such a lot of features we plan to include were not present in this build.

In game notifications, tutorials, expanded mission prompts, improved spawn systems and more are all very much in the pipeline.

Appreciate you taking the time to share your feedback, we're looking forward to hearing your thoughts when we've managed to address this stuff!

Cheers,
Jay