Changed my review to negative because of the obscene waste of time trying to remember where to go

[Neyreyan_Youtube]

Changed my review to negative after realising how stupid the pathfinding system is. i got lost after not playing for 2 days and now i dont remember where to go.
Developers need to learn to respect people's time, the game is great but the biggest challenge is knowing where to go(day/night mechanics, 2 characters but always 1 path)

[[ACE] cbordeu]

Sorry that you've had that experience. We'll be updating the game very soon with some significant improvements to navigation (based on player feedback accumulated from this thread):

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1430680

If you can chime in on what areas you are struggling with, it would be helpful. I'm certain we will continue work on this aspect after the upcoming patch goes live.

[Wese]

Originally posted by Neyreyan_Youtube:

Changed my review to negative after realising how stupid the pathfinding system is. i got lost after not playing for 2 days and now i dont remember where to go.
Developers need to learn to respect people's time, the game is great but the biggest challenge is knowing where to go(day/night mechanics, 2 characters but always 1 path)

I would disagree. The "pathfinding system" (I don't think it means what you think it means), more percisely, leveldesign is actually very well done in a smart way in my opinion. There's tons of verticallity going on with paths overlapping and giving you options to jump down. There's plenty of shortcuts in places that make sense, for easier backtracking and traversel.

Up until now I had no problems finding my way around, go to geminis place -> the only way you can go rest is locked off.
Go to the village -> ''
Go to the mountain -> Oh, you mean the big ass mountain that I can see multiple sections on the horizon before I even get close to it? gotcha
There's generally tons of landmarks spread around with unique looks.

Then you have a simplistic map that shows you general directions, so you can understand what place connects to where, also there's a simple instruction of what to do next. Maybe a few extra hints like voicelines "we're on the right track" etc. or hints in the environment could be added per example.

For sure, the game does way less handholding than in other games, and for some individuals, I can surely see the potential to get lost. There is room for improvement
but calling the leveldesign stupid or disrespectful to your time is wrong in my opinion,

[Garamoth]

As for little tweaks, I wish you could scroll both ways in the item menu to reach the map on consoles (i.e., press L1 once, instead of having to go through every other submenu).

The map could also be much bigger IMO, and maybe contain more info.

[[ACE] cbordeu]

Patch 2 is live and it has many improvements to navigation. The map is easier to read and is in the first tab now.

[Neyreyan_Youtube]

Originally posted by ACE cbordeu:

Patch 2 is live and it has many improvements to navigation. The map is easier to read and is in the first tab now.

its much better, thanks.
But the problems are more complex than this"
1) Why does the world lose color in the distance? makes navigation worse and it makes areas seem inaccesible
2)saving progress is questionable at best, you need to find a camp and sleep right? but it seems if you die it doesnt save some of the things you did like opening a door or pushing a block
3)There is no proper tutorial for Pseudo and what he does and in the begining you are not allowed to go to certain areas so it makes it feel useless
4) Its never explained that killing the enemy with fire on its head will delete the vines
5) everything looks different in the night, even the enemies, it gets confusing
6) some areas can be used to cross in one way but not back
7)many areas blend in so you dont know its a deadend until you search every corner
8)its implied you have to farm an area like a dark souls game but thats a big mistake
9)you can't see the bigger picture so you always try to find highground but there is no highground, very rarely there is or you cant access it
10)some camps should be marked on the map or the most important ones
The game is impossible to play if you dont advance enough so you dont have to do backtracking the next time you play.

There are also many bugs and many design problems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEAfhcoO310
This is after i defeated claw and didnt play for a few days and i had the new maps. I feel like core mechanics should be explained like defeating the flaming golems.
Cheese/bugs like attacking the guys behind the weird little game and they aggro on you. you cant leave if you enter combat.
Or the beastmaster attacking the boar and vice verse when you come with pseudo.

It's also super dodgy how the dice game works, once i hit the enemy in the back with a club but i dont understand how or why. And it seems the artefacts are consumables?

it also makes the game seem like a puzzle game because you can get certain items to use against certain enemies or just other stuff to bypass challenges instead of fighting

[littleguyalex]

As for #4, in my experience so far, the fire head guys only appear in one context: at night after you've passed through thorny foliage and killing them seems to always destroy the foliage. I don't think this needs to be explained further. The game tells you through gameplay.

[Clockwork]

There is only ever a handful of paths forward, usually 2-3 if i had to pick a number. Sounds like a brain issue. This is the kind of game with minimal hand-holding, which many people find refreshing. Maybe play along with a guide or a let's play if you are looking for more structure?

[LordDraco3]

Yeah the game kinda beats you over the head that killing the flaming enemies burns away thorns, it literally cuts away to the thorns burning every single time you kill one of them.

Yes, things look different in the dark, that is how the dark works in real life too, do you only want the sky to change color and nothing else?

Enemies hurting other enemies is not a cheese or bug, it's by design. All of the Zeno Clash games have friendly fire, just part of the strategy to deal with fighting groups.

The artifacts explain exactly what they do when you are selecting one for a battle, you described First Punch artifact. Read the description and it says that you get to hit them first (happens using a big stick). Yes they are consumable, that part is not highlighted well and it takes a while to collect a decent pool of them.

[Alex Vojacek]

No need to sleep in the camp to save progress. All our camps have a radius of detection. If you go close to a camp you will see the "saving icon" on your bottom right corner. Any camp that you past by close enough will activate the save function.

[P1]

Originally posted by Neyreyan_Youtube:

Originally posted by ACE cbordeu:

Patch 2 is live and it has many improvements to navigation. The map is easier to read and is in the first tab now.

its much better, thanks.
But the problems are more complex than this"
1) Why does the world lose color in the distance? makes navigation worse and it makes areas seem inaccesible
2)saving progress is questionable at best, you need to find a camp and sleep right? but it seems if you die it doesnt save some of the things you did like opening a door or pushing a block
3)There is no proper tutorial for Pseudo and what he does and in the begining you are not allowed to go to certain areas so it makes it feel useless
4) Its never explained that killing the enemy with fire on its head will delete the vines
5) everything looks different in the night, even the enemies, it gets confusing
6) some areas can be used to cross in one way but not back
7)many areas blend in so you dont know its a deadend until you search every corner
8)its implied you have to farm an area like a dark souls game but thats a big mistake
9)you can't see the bigger picture so you always try to find highground but there is no highground, very rarely there is or you cant access it
10)some camps should be marked on the map or the most important ones
The game is impossible to play if you dont advance enough so you dont have to do backtracking the next time you play.

There are also many bugs and many design problems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEAfhcoO310
This is after i defeated claw and didnt play for a few days and i had the new maps. I feel like core mechanics should be explained like defeating the flaming golems.
Cheese/bugs like attacking the guys behind the weird little game and they aggro on you. you cant leave if you enter combat.
Or the beastmaster attacking the boar and vice verse when you come with pseudo.

It's also super dodgy how the dice game works, once i hit the enemy in the back with a club but i dont understand how or why. And it seems the artefacts are consumables?

it also makes the game seem like a puzzle game because you can get certain items to use against certain enemies or just other stuff to bypass challenges instead of fighting

tl;dr, but sounds like this great game isn't for you. I suggest something like maybe a ubisoft game that has 10,000 markers and waypoints all over the screen to hold your hand through every step so you don't need to do any slight thought process to figure something out alone.