My Thoughts on KF3 so far

[Nia]

TL:DR at the bottom.

Disclaimer and message for the developer

If a Dev reads this just know that the following opinions are coming from a place of love for Killing Floor. I have been a fan for 15 years since KF1 and only want to see KF3 respect the legacy of its predecessors, while still being something new that brings a fresh take to the series.

In an effort to make this actually readable and something the devs can act on, I will try to make my opinions as concise as possible without being too hyperbolic. Some sections may seem bare but I will try to update them as I play the beta over the coming days.

The Elephant in the room

There are a lot of strong opinions flooding the forum right now over this game, about what it is, and more often about what it isn't. I understand people are upset about choices Tripwire has made, i'm upset too. I love this series and I don't want to see its memory sullied, or become a bad joke like I've seen happen with similar titles in the genre(looking at you payday 3).

That being said, this is Killing Floor 3.

I signed up for the beta to give my feedback on Killing Floor 3. I am not writing this post to hound the devs because the game isn't exactly what I HOPED it would be, but rather to talk about what I think is GOOD, and what I think is BAD.

The Good

• Weapon Customization - I am an absolute nut when it comes to tweaking my load out to make my gun feel just right. I think the system fits Killing Floor and its a welcome addition. I just hope that the attachments are thought out and we don't end up with a bloated system 3 years down the line with 10 different reflex sights that all look slightly different and have samey stats just to fill out a battle pass.
  
• Gameplay - even on normal difficulty enemies are boasting new move sets that keep things fresh, husks i'm looking at you. Movement is completely new, we can dash, slide, sprint, and climb now. The avenues this opens up for more unique and vertical level design have amazing potential. I already found myself "slide hopping" around to get to the trader quicker and i'm excited to see what other kind of movement tech players will uncover with this new system.
  
• Graphics - I think the visuals have been carried into the new generation well and it helps sell the setting to us. The best part of Killing Floor to me is the atmosphere, the immersion, the FEELING you get when you're gunning (or slashing, or burning, or exploding) down zeds to the beat of the music, and the graphics are a pillar of that. The added destruction of environments (bosses tearing through a small door and the wall with it, Fleshpounds busting a hole in the wall creating a new point of attack for smaller zeds) is especially cool to me.
  
• Music - I care a lot about the music in-game and I crank it to 100%, I can only speak about the music I've heard, but what I've heard sounds great! The front page music (compiling shaders screen) gets me immediately exciting to get ripping into zeds. The Stronghold music is much gentler with ominous tones that provide a wonderful contrasting mood to the usual slaughter, while still reminding you of the world you're in. What I've heard in-mission has stayed familiar to what I know and expect, while adding that touch of new synth.

The Bad

• HUD/UX - There seems to be a shift towards a "cleaner" UI with less visual elements, clean simple boxes for elements like health/armor, etc... which is NOT BAD on its own, but the HUD itself seems very cluttered with a lot going on, and it seems very counter intuitive. Pinned daily objectives, health, weapon/ammo, compass, resource pickups, etc are constantly cluttering the screen and take up screen space that could be filled by the beautiful zeds and environments. I understand giving players information, but I believe adding options menu settings to disable specific HUD elements would go a long way in remedying this. I can see how many resources I acquired this mission at the end of the match, I don't need to see "+1 Zed-tech" when a Fleshpound gets killed. These are small things but I think its important to ask if they are adding to the desired experience for the player, or taking away from it.
  
  The Trader interface, in my opinion, is a step down from the previous game. The new interface has taken the "+1, +2" upgrade system and added an entire weapon block and portrait of the same weapon again to show a simple attachment change, when it would suffice to show a small button below the weapon card saying "add HP rounds" or "add reflex sight". The one highlight of the new system is being able to see the "rarity" of a weapon on its "card" in the shop which shows you at a glance which is more powerful, as well as being able to see the trade in value of a weapon combined with your available dosh to see your total spending power, which does help to streamline deciding on and switching to a new weapon in the shop.
  
  
  
• Personality - There seems to be this sense of loss of character in the game, battle chatter is not quite the same, Enemy presence is no longer announced organically through a Scrake chainsaw, or a Fleshpound roar, but instead called out by Rhodes, our handler, so to speak. There are little things, bits of flair that added to the world building of the game, that feel like they're missing. It makes for a quieter experience, despite all the gunfire and music.

The Beta

• No Text Chat - Whether this was left out on purpose to keep the emphasis on gameplay and testing systems, or they just forgot, it is worth mentioning there is no way to type to your teammates using a keyboard, only
  
• Beta Keys/Access - Many people are reporting having trouble getting access to the beta, I did not have any issues in this regard but it is worth pointing out.
  
• Server Issues - There have been general server/network issues that are causing things like poor zed AI, player equipment bugging out,
  
• Crashes - So far I have only experienced one crash during the end match screen of my second mission, which happened after about 75 minutes of play.
  
• (un)Optimization and Performance - Even for a beta, the performance people are reporting seems to be especially poor, I had to drop my resolution to 1280x720p and Low settings to get a stable 30fps, my system is above the minimum benchmark. I only bring this up as it is something that can kill the game for somebody before they even get to play, and leads to very harsh judgement from the community.
  
• Bugs - Turret Audio Looping, negative ammo bug, can't exit matchmaking without leaving to title screen, bag utilities flying across map, Interaction/emote wheel being sluggish and buggy, slice and dice wave mutation enemies spawning too slowly leading to a VERY long wave of slow trickle enemies,. these are just some bugs that I've encountered personally which are obviously not intended but need to be spotlighted nonetheless.

The Not-so-sure (let's talk about it)

I wanted to save this section for last because it contains the topics that have been very polarizing for players. A lot of this stuff are things that I would say aren't necessarily Good or Bad, they're just new or different. I would really love to see what you guys think about the things in this section in the comments.

• Specialists, Classes, and Weapons - Classes(Perks) are now tied to specific characters called Specialists, meaning you can no longer play as Mr. Foster and be a Firebug, Medic, or Sharpshooter. If you want to be the Medic you will play as Obi, if you want to be the Commando you will play as Mr. Foster, and so on. This by itself has left a bad taste in the mouths of veterans who are accustomed to the full customization of their character, independent of class. Additionally, each Class has unique weapons which they are locked into using. Medics can't purchase a sharpshooter weapon, and vice versa.
  
  I think that these choices aren't innately bad, they are just different from what we are used to. I also think it could just be unfinished and the developers do intend to separate our characters from our classes. Assuming that Specialists are class locked, I think it does allow for a more "curated" experience. When you see an Obi, you know they're a medic. This also allows for more specific cosmetic choices that are tied to the Specialists archetype when developers are creating cosmetics in the future. Overall, I don't see this as being as big of a deal as some players have made it out to be.
  
  Edit: I was wrong about this, as one of you pointed out (thank you!). all weapons are available in the trader, but due to the UI interface it is not immediately obvious because weapons are sorted by category. As for the weapons being locked to specific classes, I do see this as a big step in a different direction for the gameplay and player freedom. Niche builds will be less prevalent, undoubtedly. I am curious as to how developers will implement off-perk weapons like we had in KF2, e.g., Berserker had explosive or healing options. I wonder if things like that will just cease to be, or if they would be made available to both Specialists arsenals in the new system. On the flip side, this change cements each Specialists role within their team and increases the value they bring to the table by choosing a unique role. No longer will you get by with a medic pistol/melee as an off-perk weapon, if your team wants healing, you need a medic. Creative players could get around this in the past, but not with this new system.
  
  
• Gameplay Loop, Battle Pass, Resource Grind - The Beta contains a "Supply Pass" which you gain experience for every match, every "level up" grants tokens that are used to unlock items in the pass. Currently all 100 items in the pass are cosmetics or store currency. There is also a premium shop containing cosmetics. As you play you also acquire multiple arbitrary resources, "Biosteel", "Zed Tech", etc... which are used to craft weapon mods for your arsenal and upgrade them, these weapon mods are small stat bumps at first but once upgraded can largely change how your weapon system operates, e.g., AP rounds vs HP rounds. This seems to be the main form of gameplay progression alongside the familiar Perk upgrades from previous games.
  
  At this time there doesn't seem to be any way to pay-to-skip the grind of upgrading your weapons and class perks, and the amount of resource grinding which can be done to create multiple custom loadouts seems nearly endless. Combined with the expanded "missions" system and daily/weekly objectives, it seems like tripwire are opting for a system in which you commit time and resources to upgrade your favored Specialist, as there are many systems going into increasing the players power level aside from simply gathering XP.

TL:DR

In conclusion, I think the beta has been rocky as hell, and that has made it a lot harder for people to accept the changes tripwire has made. My impression so far is that they are opting for more of a live-service approach with daily/weekly objectives to boost progression and releasing voiced story content over time through directives and missions.
Some old systems have been overhauled (nobody gets stim pistols or welders anymore, for instance.) and some entirely new ones have been added (weapon modding, Cosmetic Passes).

I'd love to hear what you guys think about the beta and the game in general. Some things we may miss about the old games, new players wouldn't even know about, I try to think about that when looking at the new game. If there is anything I missed (I didn't really bring up the weapon design, for instance.) that you think I should add let me know and i'll edit the post.

It's a new age, see you on the Killing Floor.

[Dopamine]

the game is definitely okay in my opinion. to me, the stuff you listed as the bad are things where tripwire can and should 100% make improvements and listen to community feedback. and i feel like the additions would be relatively low cost whilst farming tons of community good will

- the battle chatter needs to play more often and there needs to be more of it
- if tripwire is going to lean into specialist they should develop interactive voice lines between the characters (if they dont exist, i havent noticed, voice lines get drowned out sometimes)
- the communication/ping wheel needs a -massive- overhaul/rework. just bring back the one from kf2. taunting zeds is needlessly tedious and it also doesnt seem to play the correct audio? when i select the taunt voice i say things like good job?
- interface could definitely use some work in terms of the armory/trader as well. the issue i think is they cant design the trader too separately from the armory because the UX flow of them is similar-ish. i would really prefer a return to something more sleek and minimalist from kf2 trader, and also represented in armory

[Kzk]

The Specialists definitely have nothing to do with identification as the cosmetic armor you unlock can and will cover up most of what other players would use for sight recognition.

The icons were a solved problem from the previous games for that reason.

Everything else I can agree with. KF2 was a pretty terrible launch from what I can recall and it improved over time.

What isn't negotiable is the charater for me as a vet. If I can't be DJ Scully and switch between my two favorite classes I won't be buying.

[JayTuut]

This game is awful, bring back Killing Floor 1, this is not a killing floor game at all. The only thing that resembles KF are the enemies which even then arent greatly designed.

[Streak]

I'll copy and paste my brief feedback here too:

I loved it. Weapons feel and look better than they did in the gameplay videos, and shooting Zeds feels punchy and meaty. The movement isn't too fast either, much slower and less fluid than Apex, so you can't dodge every attack either. Maps look much better and more alive than KF2. The animation style is different (less mo-capped fluidity and more arcadey), but it felt like a great Killing Floor experience to me, even at this beta stage. Bugs still need to be ironed out and some animation jank should be worked on.

[Nia]

Originally posted by Dopamine:

the game is definitely okay in my opinion. to me, the stuff you listed as the bad are things where tripwire can and should 100% make improvements and listen to community feedback. and i feel like the additions would be relatively low cost whilst farming tons of community good will

- the battle chatter needs to play more often and there needs to be more of it
- if tripwire is going to lean into specialist they should develop interactive voice lines between the characters (if they dont exist, i havent noticed, voice lines get drowned out sometimes)
- the communication/ping wheel needs a -massive- overhaul/rework. just bring back the one from kf2. taunting zeds is needlessly tedious and it also doesnt seem to play the correct audio? when i select the taunt voice i say things like good job?
- interface could definitely use some work in terms of the armory/trader as well. the issue i think is they cant design the trader too separately from the armory because the UX flow of them is similar-ish. i would really prefer a return to something more sleek and minimalist from kf2 trader, and also represented in armory

Right now the Specialists are pretty lifeless, but if they doubled down on the idea I think it could pan out for them if that's the route they want to go, I think most of the communities outrage is that they decided to do things that are pretty "out there" but didn't deliver A+ results, so everyone is sitting around like "wtf was the point".

[Nia]

Originally posted by Kzk:

The Specialists definitely have nothing to do with identification as the cosmetic armor you unlock can and will cover up most of what other players would use for sight recognition.

The icons were a solved problem from the previous games for that reason.

Everything else I can agree with. KF2 was a pretty terrible launch from what I can recall and it improved over time.

What isn't negotiable is the charater for me as a vet. If I can't be DJ Scully and switch between my two favorite classes I won't be buying.

That's my issue with what I'm seeing in the first supply pass, there is an armor set for each operator that looks almost identical to each other, and it doesn't really give us any insight into these new characters they're portraying. A lot of the choices Tripwire are making seem odd to me because they're going left with one choice, and right with the way they implement it, so it is just confusing. All in all I think they're lacking clear direction.

[OddDodo]

Totally agree. Sad for me to have gone from kf1 to kf2 so excited and impressed to kf3 with disappointment. It's definitely not killing floor. Killing floor franchise is the only one I've played consistently because of it's straight forward plug and play. No bloated UI or visual info overload. Kf3 left me feeling dry and annoyed. I don't feel accomplished like I did in kf1 & 2. I've always hated games that make me click more than 3-4 times to start playing the actual game let alone going through 5 or more different scenes along with the clicks.

[Nia]

Originally posted by OddDodo:

Totally agree. Sad for me to have gone from kf1 to kf2 so excited and impressed to kf3 with disappointment. It's definitely not killing floor. Killing floor franchise is the only one I've played consistently because of it's straight forward plug and play. No bloated UI or visual info overload. Kf3 left me feeling dry and annoyed. I don't feel accomplished like I did in kf1 & 2. I've always hated games that make me click more than 3-4 times to start playing the actual game let alone going through 5 or more different scenes along with the clicks.

I definitely agree that the startup sequence, open game, click through landing page, load into stronghold, walk to mission terminal, choose mission, get to VTOL, wait in VTOL, THEN you start your queue for multiplayer is pretty obtuse and makes it more of a challenge to just get into the action. I guess the point is that they want you to check your skills, shop, etc all before you hop in, or just want you to have more of an experience with the other side of the Killing Floor by giving us a peek into stronghold and what the specialists lives are like "at home" but that does distract from the "purity" of the gameplay loop in the past. I understand they are different but I don't think one is necessarily worse than the other, they're just... different.

[oh tavrob]

On the FAQ (https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/killing-floor-3-general-faq.2340844/), they state the reason characters are locked to classes is for quick identification of classes, so I do think it isn't just for the beta and is planned to be a permanent feature. It also doesn't bother me at all, cosmetic customisation isn't something I'm all that interested in, 165 hours in KF2 and I don't think I've changed anything from when I chose cosmetics a few hours in. However given the amount of pushback from players this could be something they change.

Something absolutely worth noting is you CAN mix and match weapons and classes, when you enter the shop, when you select a weapon slot, at the top of the screen you can switch to other classes weapons. It's less intuitive than KF2, as you need to select one of your two primary slots or your secondary slot first, at which point most players likely think they're locked into their classes weapons, but it is there. You can play a engineer with the firebug shotgun or a commando with the medic sub machinegun. Grenades, and gadgets are class locked, but that makes sense to me, as they're directly upgraded by the skill tree for each class.

[Sifer2]

Originally posted by oh tavrob:

On the FAQ (https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/killing-floor-3-general-faq.2340844/), they state the reason characters are locked to classes is for quick identification of classes, so I do think it isn't just for the beta and is planned to be a permanent feature. It also doesn't bother me at all, cosmetic customisation isn't something I'm all that interested in, 165 hours in KF2 and I don't think I've changed anything from when I chose cosmetics a few hours in. However given the amount of pushback from players this could be something they change.

Something absolutely worth noting is you CAN mix and match weapons and classes, when you enter the shop, when you select a weapon slot, at the top of the screen you can switch to other classes weapons. It's less intuitive than KF2, as you need to select one of your two primary slots or your secondary slot first, at which point most players likely think they're locked into their classes weapons, but it is there. You can play a engineer with the firebug shotgun or a commando with the medic sub machinegun. Grenades, and gadgets are class locked, but that makes sense to me, as they're directly upgraded by the skill tree for each class.

A class icon next to the player name worked fine for identifying class's. I think it's more a monetization thing personally. They want to sell you new heroes, and then you need to earn/buy all new cosmetics for them. The game is implementing pretty much all marketing tactics it can from modern live service shooters.

As for my opinion on the game. I think it probably should have launched in Early Access. It's in a very rough state. But they didn't do that cause this game was obviously designed primarily for console. That's why there is no Text Chat....

[Kazuya]

"Medics can't purchase a sharpshooter weapon, and vice versa."

umm yes they can. so sick of this ignorant hate. im playing firebug using incindiary rounds on comando weapons with a medic pistol that shoots darts, yes its not fully free but the level or terrorism from you scum without actually playing the game is downright FOUL!

[Nia]

Originally posted by Kazuya (AU):

"Medics can't purchase a sharpshooter weapon, and vice versa."

umm yes they can. so sick of this ignorant hate. im playing firebug using incindiary rounds on comando weapons with a medic pistol that shoots darts, yes its not fully free but the level or terrorism from you scum without actually playing the game is downright FOUL!

Lot of assumptions in your response, I agree with you that mods like incendiary or sonic rounds do bridge the gap, but its definitely not the same as purchasing a full weapon. If you want to get hostile you can do it in the 1000 hate posts elsewhere on the forum.

[Nia]

Originally posted by oh tavrob:

On the FAQ (https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/killing-floor-3-general-faq.2340844/), they state the reason characters are locked to classes is for quick identification of classes, so I do think it isn't just for the beta and is planned to be a permanent feature. It also doesn't bother me at all, cosmetic customisation isn't something I'm all that interested in, 165 hours in KF2 and I don't think I've changed anything from when I chose cosmetics a few hours in. However given the amount of pushback from players this could be something they change.

Something absolutely worth noting is you CAN mix and match weapons and classes, when you enter the shop, when you select a weapon slot, at the top of the screen you can switch to other classes weapons. It's less intuitive than KF2, as you need to select one of your two primary slots or your secondary slot first, at which point most players likely think they're locked into their classes weapons, but it is there. You can play a engineer with the firebug shotgun or a commando with the medic sub machinegun. Grenades, and gadgets are class locked, but that makes sense to me, as they're directly upgraded by the skill tree for each class.

I see! you're right, that definitely isn't clear from the get-go. I wonder if they'll make it easier to see and change things like that, or add tutorial pop-ups when you open your arsenal for it. Are you still locked to only 4 different weapons per mission, or can you customize the full 12 slots in your shop?

[Rilgar55]

Kf2 was l4d2, kf3 is b4b, and we all know how b4b ended. It had pretty much the same issues kf3 has in comparatiom

[MIND ЯEWIND 2]

if DEV READS THIS ? ? ? ? ?

HA HA HA HA ROFL

mister,tripwire interactive dont read steam forums and they dont care about any feedback