Age of Darkness: Final Stand

Age of Darkness: Final Stand

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SecretLars Jun 13, 2022 @ 4:50am
Vizargo is weak AF, needs rebalance in my opinion.
Played with him and an emboldened spearman is stronger than a lvl 4 Vizargo.
The spearman can easily kill an axe wielding monster while Vizargo loses almost half his health.
If you think *but he has some AoE) so does the spearman. You just need to position them just like you have to with Vizargo.
*But he has abilities* no use since they have such a long cooldown, you have to wait almost an entire night/day for it to recharge.

What's the point of choosing him when when you have heroes like Aelis who can spawn spearmen?
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
Catbert7 Jun 13, 2022 @ 2:04pm 
Vizargo is a late-bloomer.

His abilities become very powerful - able to eliminate giant swaths of enemies at later levels, similar to Edwin, but stronger and more mobile.
He can Stun Giants; not often, but still can make the difference.
Dash can be used to get in/out of swarms no other Hero can.
His ranged attack becomes VERY strong - like 1-shotting Spitters strong.
He can melee the Wave, then duck behind Walls and use ranged attack while healing.
Fairly resilient at night, at higher levels.
His healing aura is very helpful when defending with units, especially if you get the No-Regen Malice.

The tradeoff is he is squishy, like Aelis, and weak in the early game. Can't use him mindlessly, like Edwin, which makes things tough with no-pause, but same is true for Aelis.
Last edited by Catbert7; Jun 13, 2022 @ 2:04pm
SecretLars Jun 17, 2022 @ 12:38am 
I got Aelis to lvl 4 after the first night because she was one shooting monsters sometimes multiple if they were in a row.
Vizargo struggled to reach lvl 4 even after the first wave because he is just so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ weak.

His life steal is way to weak, you literally save time taking him out of combat and letting him regenerate. What is an ability if it’s more useful to not use it.
Edwin can at least take a hit.
You have to hit enemies around 4 times and by that time you’ve killed one or maybe two with splash you yourself have been hit 4 times multiplied the amount of enemies.
Giant stun is worthless with the siege stun ability.
Don’t have problems with spitters anyways because if it’s units you can dodge they get priority with attack highest. You literally don’t even need a wall if you make one out of flame belchers and arbalists.
Just have the arbalists target high and flame belchers target near.

Aela is consistently stronger than a regular unit through the entire process.
Vizargo is consistently outperformed by a spearman until late game you say.
Doesn’t sound like a good deal to me.
I see no merits to use him as all points you mentioned are either bunk or worthless as there are cheaper and easier ways to get the same results.

Only reason I see to get him is if you want to have a hard time while role playing as an edgy Professor Snape.
Catbert7 Jun 17, 2022 @ 12:59am 
Originally posted by SecretLars:
I got Aelis to lvl 4 after the first night because she was one shooting monsters sometimes multiple if they were in a row.
Vizargo struggled to reach lvl 4 even after the first wave because he is just so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ weak.
What did you not understand about "late-bloomer?" He is weak early-game, strong late-game.

Originally posted by SecretLars:
His life steal is way to weak, you literally save time taking him out of combat and letting him regenerate. What is an ability if it’s more useful to not use it.
If his lifesteal were faster than regen he would be invincible, and everyone in his radius. That would be ludicrously broken. The regen is just to help your troops sustain taking small damage, as they do fighting Crawlers and Javelineers, so you don't have to cycle them out. It's also the only healing available when you get the No Regen Malice. No other Faction has a way to counter that at all.

Originally posted by SecretLars:
Edwin can at least take a hit.
Aelis can't take a hit either, yet you don't list her as useless. Some hypocrisy going on.

Originally posted by SecretLars:
Giant stun is worthless with the siege stun ability.
Siege stun is something you usually get post-Wave 3. Vizargo gets his Stun on DN1. Makes a difference on Nightmare DN2.

Originally posted by SecretLars:
Don’t have problems with spitters anyways because if it’s units you can dodge they get priority with attack highest.
The point was about how much damage he does, not about him vs Spitters in particular. Though it can be VERY helpful for killing Spitter swarms in map-clear.

Originally posted by SecretLars:
Vizargo is consistently outperformed by a spearman until late game you say.
I definitely did not say that. Vizargo starts with more HP than a Pikeman and passes a Pike in DpS within the first few levels, not counting his abilities.

Originally posted by SecretLars:
I see no merits to use him as all points you mentioned are either bunk or worthless as there are cheaper and easier ways to get the same results.
Lol, alright bro. I see nothing will change your mind. Fortunately there are other heroes for you to use. Some of us do fine with Vizargo. This is why games have options. Cheers.
Last edited by Catbert7; Jun 17, 2022 @ 12:59am
SecretLars Jun 17, 2022 @ 6:44am 
Originally posted by Catbert7:
What did you not understand about "late-bloomer?" He is weak early-game, strong late-game.
There is no point in using him if he is such a late bloomer as the point in games like these is rapid early expansion. the faster and earlier you can get the better.
A weak ass hero who's only good after you've spent most of the game tending to him like a helicopter parent is USELESS. By that time you should already have a massive army with siege units that stun, mele units to protect them and ranged against stronger units.

Originally posted by Catbert7:
His life steal is way to weak, you literally save time taking him out of combat and letting him regenerate. What is an ability if it’s more useful to not use it.
If his lifesteal were faster than regen he would be invincible, and everyone in his radius. That would be ludicrously broken. The regen is just to help your troops sustain taking small damage, as they do fighting Crawlers and Javelineers, so you don't have to cycle them out. It's also the only healing available when you get the No Regen Malice. No other Faction has a way to counter that at all.[/quote]
You obviously haven't played Aelis since late game she can stand in the front of a wave, you just apply her X ability on a bunch of weak, cheap, sacrificial units and she's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ immortal.

Originally posted by Catbert7:
Aelis can't take a hit either, yet you don't list her as useless. Some hypocrisy going on./quote]
Simple, She does massive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ damage, spawns more and more units the higher level she gets which makes monsters target them instead of her.
Edwin tank
Aelis spawns units to tank for her and usually kills units before they even get a hit on her.
Vizargo has abilities that take forever to recharge. He literally takes the canon out of glass canon.

Originally posted by Catbert7:
Siege stun is something you usually get post-Wave 3. Vizargo gets his Stun on DN1. Makes a difference on Nightmare DN2.
You mean his 0,1 second stun? and with Aelis and an aggressive expansion I ususally have the siege stun on DN2.

Originally posted by Catbert7:
The point was about how much damage he does, not about him vs Spitters in particular. Though it can be VERY helpful for killing Spitter swarms in map-clear.
As opposed to Aelis who doesn't, oh wait.
LVL Aelis / Vizargo
1 20 / 7
2 22 / 9
3 24 / 11
4 26 / 13
5 28 / 15

You notice a pattern here...
Not to mention Aelis can eventually spawn 5 guards that always do half her damage and their kills give her experience.
I haven't checked all their stats but results stands for themselves, Aelis can solo the first two waves Vizargo can't solo anything.

Originally posted by Catbert7:
I definitely did not say that. Vizargo starts with more HP than a Pikeman and passes a Pike in DpS within the first few levels, not counting his abilities.
Still; Why choose him when there are stronger heroes?

Originally posted by Catbert7:
Lol, alright bro. I see nothing will change your mind.
Oh, things can definetly change my mind. Strongest being stats and evidence.

Originally posted by Catbert7:
Fortunately there are other heroes for you to use. Some of us do fine with Vizargo. This is why games have options. Cheers.
Flavor of options is always great all I'm asking for as a suggestion is balance.
FaerSlay Jun 17, 2022 @ 7:17pm 
I don't know what are you discussing here. Right now it's clear like a day, heroes developed and balanced to fit theirs factions, not to be equal to each other. Edwin developed for faction which don't want more barrack units than enough, so he basically one man army who required only walls (currently it's false cause of pushing bug) and few archers to stand 1 and 2 waves. Aelis created for faction which prefer range units over melee, so she summons own melee units and attract most enemies to them. And Vizargo, whose idea is fighting side by side with his soldiers and archers, so he created a bit weaker than other heroes, but with a strong supportive aura.
SecretLars Jun 18, 2022 @ 3:04am 
Originally posted by FaerSlay:
I don't know what are you discussing here. Right now it's clear like a day, heroes developed and balanced to fit theirs factions, not to be equal to each other. Edwin developed for faction which don't want more barrack units than enough, so he basically one man army who required only walls (currently it's false cause of pushing bug) and few archers to stand 1 and 2 waves. Aelis created for faction which prefer range units over melee, so she summons own melee units and attract most enemies to them. And Vizargo, whose idea is fighting side by side with his soldiers and archers, so he created a bit weaker than other heroes, but with a strong supportive aura.
I disagree with the phrase "strong supportive aura", it's unnoticable unlike Aelis X buff which does a 45% attack speed buff.
I'm not saying they should be the same, I'm saying they should equal in strength in regards to their own unique play style.
As it is
Edwin is a one man army with supporting siege.
Aelis is a one woman army with supporting archers.
Vizargo has a focus on having melee supporting units but with his current strength gets wiped.
FaerSlay Jun 18, 2022 @ 5:04am 
Originally posted by SecretLars:
I disagree with the phrase "strong supportive aura", it's unnoticable unlike Aelis X buff which does a 45% attack speed buff.

To begin with:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2822579250
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2822579399
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2822579460

Next: "Unnoticeable" Vizargo aura healing same number of HP as his level, but no more than 3% of max hp for ALL UNITS in its range. Vizargo lvl 3 (I believe you will reach it before first DN) has 11 damage, soldier has 10 damage and t1 crawler has 20 hp, which means Vizargo will kill one after soldiers hit. Let's say you have 20 soldiers, in fact that means Vizargo during the DN will kill at least 4 crawlers each hit and heal up to 21 targets which equal 252 hp healing per hit. It's just me, or it's look much better than 0.4 seconds less for archers to attack ?

Yes, it's works only during the night and works perfectly only during DN, but this is, once again, part of the volatists, which
Treat units as disposable.
So, I believe, healing for them required only during DN.

Originally posted by SecretLars:
I'm not saying they should be the same, I'm saying they should equal in strength in regards to their own unique play style.

And they are. Vizargo fit in Volatists play style much better than melee hero fit in range units faction.
Last edited by FaerSlay; Jun 18, 2022 @ 5:05am
SecretLars Jun 18, 2022 @ 7:22am 
Originally posted by FaerSlay:
Originally posted by SecretLars:
I disagree with the phrase "strong supportive aura", it's unnoticable unlike Aelis X buff which does a 45% attack speed buff.

To begin with:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2822579250
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2822579399
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2822579460

Next: "Unnoticeable" Vizargo aura healing same number of HP as his level, but no more than 3% of max hp for ALL UNITS in its range. Vizargo lvl 3 (I believe you will reach it before first DN) has 11 damage, soldier has 10 damage and t1 crawler has 20 hp, which means Vizargo will kill one after soldiers hit. Let's say you have 20 soldiers, in fact that means Vizargo during the DN will kill at least 4 crawlers each hit and heal up to 21 targets which equal 252 hp healing per hit. It's just me, or it's look much better than 0.4 seconds less for archers to attack ?

Yes, it's works only during the night and works perfectly only during DN, but this is, once again, part of the volatists, which
Treat units as disposable.
So, I believe, healing for them required only during DN.

Originally posted by SecretLars:
I'm not saying they should be the same, I'm saying they should equal in strength in regards to their own unique play style.

And they are. Vizargo fit in Volatists play style much better than melee hero fit in range units faction.
Aelis 45% attack speed is lvl 10, she does 15% at lvl 3

Your Vizargo scenario is an optimal event where everything has to be right.
From all the soldiers having to have struck their own crawler, not being full health, placed within his aura and then Vizargo striking the crawlers.
More realistically you would have 5-10 soldiers within his aura during a wave because they get pushed back by the sher amount of crawlers.
Furthermore with more units there comes the problem of the unit in front blocking the ones in the back.

If we take time into account faster attack speed is way more important.
over a period of 20 seconds an archer does 15.5 damage each 2.5 seconds to a total of 124 of 20 seconds or a DPS of 6,2
With a mere 15% buff as lvl 3 Aelis archers do 1,5 more attacks to a total of 147,25 or a DPS of 7,36.
however as Aelis reaches lvl 10 her X improves into 45% which would place the archers attack speed to 1,4 and in a span of 20 would do aproximately 221,4 damage or a DPS of around 11.
This scaling of damage clears monsters faster and can help take down larger monsters than a 3% healing per strike which becomes essentially worthless with larger monsters that do significantly more damage.
This would increase even further with the attack speed upgrade for melee units.
However that wouldn't leave much health for a melee unit, question is would it be more optimal for a Vizargo gameplay to go for attack speed or health?
SecretLars Jun 18, 2022 @ 8:32am 
BTW I tried Vizargo again got him to lvl 3 before first wave, had 14 soldiers and 4 spearmen no archers, just focus melee. Placed them infront of a wall.
Got my ass absolutely handed to me. ♥♥♥♥ all heal, because it only applies when HE kills enemies, which is RARE because of his low damage capability.
Every single soldier dead.
Vizargo dead.
Everyone else dead.

Vizargo takes the canon out of glass canon.
I'm going to play Edwin or Aelis because they atleast kill enemies.
Last edited by SecretLars; Jun 18, 2022 @ 8:35am
Genki Jun 20, 2022 @ 5:04pm 
I've been playing Vizargo exclusively in nightmare and I really enjoy his play style. Death nights 1 (10 soldiers) and 2 (20-30 soldiers), you can use him to initiate the wave and soon as he starts to take too much damage, pull him back. Let your archers kill the high threat. Wave 1 the artillery mobs. Wave 2 the crusher. Once those targets are dead use him to kill off the rest of the wave. For as long as there aren't loads of axe mobs or spearman focusing him, he will out heal the damage and allows your soldiers to stay alive. Upgrade your melee max life. His dash ability decimates waves and all of your soldiers including himself will heal from the deaths. Same for his stun. You need archers to handle higher priority mobs because that's just how this game works. Death night 3, don't even bother bringing him to the fight. Use him to clear the map while your defense handles the wave. (Melee army with some archers/arbs/flamespitters)
Last edited by Genki; Jun 20, 2022 @ 5:11pm
SecretLars Jun 21, 2022 @ 7:57am 
Originally posted by genki8936:
For as long as there aren't loads of axe mobs or spearman focusing him, he will out heal the damage and allows your soldiers to stay alive.
He heals on kills not strikes. and his damage is weak AF.
Genki Jun 21, 2022 @ 3:00pm 
He has a purpose and his play style is unique. Its enjoyable if you play it right. Completed 3 nightmare runs over the past week or so with him and he is my favorite pick right now. Especially with the way walls go down in the current state of the game.

He heals on kills and once all of the high threat mobs are dead he has plenty enough damage to keep up your army and hold the front line while you finish off the wave. His aoe abilities clear waves (aka kills) and your army will heal off it.
Last edited by Genki; Jun 21, 2022 @ 3:02pm
Ruikuli Oct 13, 2022 @ 2:07pm 
Vizargo needs to be default ranged, youre either microing your entire rest of the game or him way too sguishy to be slightly slapping enemies
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