Is melee units finally viable yet?

[Raymond]

I took a break from this game for year after I beaten whatever the highest diff was. Totally not impressed that this game wanted me to beat it by spamming snipers like I did in They are Billions. It looks like there has been some big patches since then, so anything new for melee units yet?

[yuuta]

Originally posted by Raymond:

I took a break from this game for year after I beaten whatever the highest diff was. Totally not impressed that this game wanted me to beat it by spamming snipers like I did in They are Billions. It looks like there has been some big patches since then, so anything new for melee units yet?

Oh 100%, one of our skilled members Kappuchinas managed to do a melee-only run and beat the hardest difficulty with custom x8.8 modifiers enabled.

I have only been able to do Melee only on default Horrific difficulty so far with the spearman tactic ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc6094hDlW0

Here's the Youtube video of Kappuchinas doing it! Its awesome.

[Raymond]

Originally posted by yuuta:

Oh 100%, one of our skilled members Kappuchinas managed to do a melee-only run and beat the hardest difficulty with custom x8.8 modifiers enabled.

I have only been able to do Melee only on default Horrific difficulty so far with the spearman tactic ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc6094hDlW0

Here's the Youtube video of Kappuchinas doing it! Its awesome.

yes, very nice. But melee units are BALANCED to be a par as range units, and not just ok-ish enough for a challenge run?

Also, have you guys gotten around to add a "pause" feature to lower difficulty? Or at least a replay feature? It would be nice if there is some way I could see the action play out without having to pan my screen everywhere on the map.

[Mr Beefy]

Originally posted by Raymond:

Originally posted by yuuta:

Oh 100%, one of our skilled members Kappuchinas managed to do a melee-only run and beat the hardest difficulty with custom x8.8 modifiers enabled.

I have only been able to do Melee only on default Horrific difficulty so far with the spearman tactic ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc6094hDlW0

Here's the Youtube video of Kappuchinas doing it! Its awesome.

yes, very nice. But melee units are BALANCED to be a par as range units, and not just ok-ish enough for a challenge run?

Also, have you guys gotten around to add a "pause" feature to lower difficulty? Or at least a replay feature? It would be nice if there is some way I could see the action play out without having to pan my screen everywhere on the map.

So because your ♥♥♥♥ at the game your complaining to the devs to make it easier? There is already a pause system , perhaps you didnt see it? Mentioned melee units but yet you complain anyway? wow

[Raymond]

Originally posted by Mr Beefy:

So because your ♥♥♥♥ at the game your complaining to the devs to make it easier? There is already a pause system , perhaps you didnt see it? Mentioned melee units but yet you complain anyway? wow

lol calm your tit buddy. What's part of my comment saying I want the game to be easier?
I didn't know we have a pause feature, maybe devs added them recently or they weren't available on the diff I played but thank you for pointing that out anyway.

[crystalgatedh]

Originally posted by Raymond:

yes, very nice. But melee units are BALANCED to be a par as range units, and not just ok-ish enough for a challenge run?

The tactics used by the best players in general seems to be to go with Pikemen at first, then add Arbalests/Hunters when you have the economy and means for it and finally transition away from Pikemen into Impalers instead. I've seen one player use almost only Pikemen prior to Arbelests/Hunters and another going with a roughly even mic of Pikemen and Archers. That's unfortunately the end of the data I have as this game does not have a big Youtube Presence.

I can personally say that I find Pikemen better than Archers. Prior to the introduction of armor and giving factions unique units, Warriors were also very powerful with the Volatists. Melee has never scaled well to endgame though, after the third death night, they become difficult to keep alive.

[Raymond]

Originally posted by crystalgatedh:

The tactics used by the best players in general seems to be to go with Pikemen at first, then add Arbalests/Hunters when you have the economy and means for it and finally transition away from Pikemen into Impalers instead. I've seen one player use almost only Pikemen prior to Arbelests/Hunters and another going with a roughly even mic of Pikemen and Archers. That's unfortunately the end of the data I have as this game does not have a big Youtube Presence.

I can personally say that I find Pikemen better than Archers. Prior to the introduction of armor and giving factions unique units, Warriors were also very powerful with the Volatists. Melee has never scaled well to endgame though, after the third death night, they become difficult to keep alive.

so it's the same old meta. I will come back 3 years later I guess.

[crystalgatedh]

Originally posted by Raymond:

so it's the same old meta. I will come back 3 years later I guess.

Well, not too long ago the meta was Flamers + Arbalest instead of Impalers + Arbelest, but yeah, not that much has changed when it comes to meta.

[Raymond]

Originally posted by crystalgatedh:

Well, not too long ago the meta was Flamers + Arbalest instead of Impalers + Arbelest, but yeah, not that much has changed when it comes to meta.

you remind of that meme where a lady showing the viewers two pictures that corporate want people to believe those are two different pictures. You are the corporate in the meme and Flamers+Arbelest/Impalers + Arbelest are the same fking meta.

[ganjou241]

Originally posted by yuuta:

Originally posted by Raymond:

I took a break from this game for year after I beaten whatever the highest diff was. Totally not impressed that this game wanted me to beat it by spamming snipers like I did in They are Billions. It looks like there has been some big patches since then, so anything new for melee units yet?

Oh 100%, one of our skilled members Kappuchinas managed to do a melee-only run and beat the hardest difficulty with custom x8.8 modifiers enabled.

I have only been able to do Melee only on default Horrific difficulty so far with the spearman tactic ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc6094hDlW0

Here's the Youtube video of Kappuchinas doing it! Its awesome.

I hope you guys make it possible to make a shield wall viable..
Maybe a combination of spear and shield wall.

[crystalgatedh]

The standard during most of humanity past stone age was spear and shield. In this game, warriors can either use a spear or a shield, but not both. With the difficulty of getting units into formation, pulling of a shield wall is rather hard. That said, you can put pikemen behind a wall and they can hit over it. So, instead of having spearmen form a shield wall, you have can form them behind an actual wall.

[Defrost40kSMAH]

wdym bruh they always has been better stat and eco than ranged units, except balistas maybe. Pike boys absolute chads.

[crystalgatedh]

Originally posted by Defrost40kSMAH:

wdym bruh they always has been better stat and eco than ranged units, except balistas maybe. Pike boys absolute chads.

Pikemen were terrible when they first were released. They were very expensive and IIRC, armor was not a real thing yet.

[Buntkreuz]

I think OPs idea or motivation is that melee units should not be a way to add an additional challenge because they are objectively worse, but to have them be an additional and as valuable way of beating the game.

And i tend to agree.
I would prefer that all Units are equally viable tools and simply a way to define my playstyle, without putting me at a disadvantage.
And the game can be balanced around that through economical balancing.
So melee has the disadvantage of space gaps (only the first row attacks, all behind them are waiting, whereas ranged units can bypass that range disadvantage by just shooting over the front rows).
Make them cheaper. Melee could be a good and fun way to allow players to Zerg back at the enemy at increased late resource investment (more die and you need to refill), wheras ranged units could be a good way for safe defense but a high early resource investment (expensive and need to pay more before, but you dont need to pay later to replace them).

I personally hope that balance in this game will allow for different playstyles without putting me at a disadvantage.
I prefer to use masses and Zerg my enemy. I dont care for a balanced cast of unit groups with a lot of micro.
I establish a working economy, that is allowing me specifically to pump out masses of cheap units, where wasting them and the connected resources is of no importance.
I like quantity over quality and the game should allow me that as a viable way of winning as long as i can do that good.