How are you supposed to handle the Pylons on the Eastern Dock?

[BlackDragon]

It's very nice of the game to give you a pop-up warning you about how dangerous Pylons are when you first encounter one, and letting you know that you aren't SUPPOSED to fight them, but that doesn't really help much when they seem to be BLOODY EVERYWHERE. I died five times just looking around the Eastern Docks, and half of those were AFTER I'd given up on the northern approach and gone through the ruins to the west... open a random door, BAM, there's a Pylon on the other side, you're dead!

...what are you SUPPOSED to do about them, really? The entire northern side of the area is lousy with the damn things, and I've found no kind of controls or other useful interactibles in the southern area. Based on the Atlas, there IS a control-panel somewhere you can use to shut down the pylons, but... WHERE? And how do I GET to it without getting fried, blown up, or fried and THEN blown up?

EDIT: In several places now, I've seen the game referring to 'stealth or mechanical' skill as a way to bypass the pylons. I've got no stealth - stomping around with an army of Creations doesn't lend itself well to that - but I DO have abundant mechanical skill. I just don't see how or where I could possibly APPLY it - these aren't like the spherical mines you run into in some places. You can't just run up to a Pylon and disable it with the right skills...

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

In the eastern docks you're supposed to circumvent the pylons. If you open up a door and see one... retreat. They can't follow you.

The door you opened was the exit of the route you were (wisely) avoiding.

If the pylon one-shots you that doesn't help, of course, but A] unless you're very low level/low con/low resistance it won't, and even then you have save-reload.

In other areas you have to fight at least some pylons to progress... but those areas themselves are usually optional. i.e. the Eastern Mines are really bad pylon-wise, but you can also go through the Western Mines to reach your goal.

The mechanic thing refers to finding the control object. You usually need at least X mechanics to disable the pylons once you've found their controls.

Finally, you CAN destroy pylons. It depends on your character and build, of course. But at higher levels they're more tedious than dangerous.

Agent can use Air Shock to kill them from beyond shooting range.
Guardians can save up the reaper batons and just melt the things.

Shapers probably have the toughest time, but on normal difficulty it's still quite doable. What I found effective is
A] put essence shield on my character and all creations. Also war blessing, protection, haste of course, but essence shield is essential.
B] keep all creations at max range, EXCEPT one tough creation that charges in close. This means that the pylons AoE attacks will probably only hit the closest target.
C] heal the melee creation while everybody else shoots the damn thing.

I used a Glaakh to do the charging (magic resistance) and a mix of Cryoas, Roamers and an Artila to do the shooting for most of the game. Later I added in a Drayk. This worked fine.

I also took out some pylons earlier on before I had a Glaakh by just staying at max range and shooting with everybody. Took more damage this way but it works against the weaker pylons. You'll probably need to use an essence pod or two to get enough essence. In some areas you can find essence pools, and then you're golden.

The real key factor here is the Essence Shield spell. It makes everything so much tankier.

[BlackDragon]

Originally posted by Iguana-on-a-stick:

In the eastern docks you're supposed to circumvent the pylons. If you open up a door and see one... retreat. They can't follow you.

The door you opened was the exit of the route you were (wisely) avoiding.

If the pylon one-shots you that doesn't help, of course, but A] unless you're very low level/low con/low resistance it won't, and even then you have save-reload.

*snip*

Shapers probably have the toughest time, but on normal difficulty it's still quite doable. What I found effective is
A] put essence shield on my character and all creations. Also war blessing, protection, haste of course, but essence shield is essential.
B] keep all creations at max range, EXCEPT one tough creation that charges in close. This means that the pylons AoE attacks will probably only hit the closest target.
C] heal the melee creation while everybody else shoots the damn thing.

I used a Glaakh to do the charging (magic resistance) and a mix of Cryoas, Roamers and an Artila to do the shooting for most of the game. Later I added in a Drayk. This worked fine.

I also took out some pylons earlier on before I had a Glaakh by just staying at max range and shooting with everybody. Took more damage this way but it works against the weaker pylons. You'll probably need to use an essence pod or two to get enough essence. In some areas you can find essence pools, and then you're golden.

The real key factor here is the Essence Shield spell. It makes everything so much tankier.

Right... yeah, to clarify, the pylons don't actually one-shot me, and I did indeed eventually figure out to just retreat when I saw one. Problem, rather, was that I wound up dead every time I tried to FIGHT one, mostly because of that devastating on-death explosion, along with blundering into the firing-range of MULTIPLE Pylons on a few occasions. Keeping max range and just sending in one tough critter to punch it makes sense, but in the tight corridors of the docks, that's easier said than done if I still want a clear line of fire!

Specifically, I HAVE managed to successfully beat a SINGLE pylon, just at the cost of basically my entire army of Creations being wiped out in the process. Which means I then have to retreat to the nearest city to restock my Essence so I can recreate them all, which is quite a drag for taking down a SINGLE enemy! Now, I DO have Essence Shield, but I haven't really used it much - from reading the description, it sounds like it only protects you from a SINGLE attack? And Pylons get two attacks per round, making that even less useful against them... guess I've misunderstood something. But even then, putting it on ALL my creatures is basically impossible unless I deliberately hold back - my ranged creatures are powerful enough to destroy a Pylon in roughly two turns. (It's just that it's probably reduced them all to half health in that time, and then wipes them out when it explodes.) So I really don't have the time to shield up more than a couple of them, especially since I need to Haste them too...

So - on the subject of the Eastern Docks. I still don't get it. The 'exit', as mentioned, is an obvious no-go - advance into that, and you get caught in the crossfire from THREE Pylons. Approaching from the north, meanwhile, the only way to avoid getting attacked by TWO Pylons is to hug the northern wall and then head down the passage there... at which point you encounter a single Pylon in a nook in the wall, which is one of those places where shooting it from outside its self-destruct range is basically impossible. But, fine - say I take that one out, very expensively no doubt. I can proceed down the passage, which open up into a large room to the east, which has a promising-looking control-panel... and at LEAST two Pylons. Maybe more, I didn't have the chance to check before those two obliterated me. =_=

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Essence shield is much better than that description implies.

It has a very long duration. If you take a hit, that duration decreases. But it is enough to tank several really powerful hits.

It is much more essence-efficient (when fighting hard-hitting troops) to cast essence shield than it is to take damage and then heal it.

putting it on ALL my creatures is basically impossible unless I deliberately hold back - my ranged creatures are powerful enough to destroy a Pylon in roughly two turns. (It's just that it's probably reduced them all to half health in that time, and then wipes them out when it explodes.)

If you're getting hit by the explosion, you are too close. I did stress "at max range" several times.

I did on occasion lose a single creation against a pylon, but rarely more than that. I was able to clear these areas with a shaper on normal difficulty without any trips back to the city.

The key is positioning & essence shield. (plus other buffs.)

If you put your creatures such that they do not get hit by AoE attacks, and that you only fight a single pylon at a time, you can take them out at low cost.

This is not always possible. There are times you need to expose yourself to fire from 2 pylons. But that should still be doable. Taking one down in 2 rounds of fire sounds pretty decent and should give you enough time

But some trial and error is needed. I had several instances of walking around a corner, getting shot and taking a ton of damage when I wasn't ready. In those instances I just reloaded and scouted more carefully.

All that said, I do agree that the pylons are overdone in this game. They'd work as a trick enemy in 1 or 2 areas, but there are too many of them and they become frustrating. (even if you do know how to kill them.)

Jeff has stated he's thinking of re-working them in future titles, probably making them into a kind of trap to avoid rather than an impossibly tough enemy to fight.

[Morphic]

EDIT: Iguana beat me to the punch lol.

Alternatively think of Essence Shield as a "Mana Shield" or "Temporary HP" from other games. E.g. say you cast Essence Shield that has 90 turns remaining, then an enemy hits you for 40 damage, now your Essence Shield will have ~49 turns left. It can be a very powerful spell, and for its cost, you can effectively make a single Creation "invincible" in some fights.

In regards to Docks Pylons... My "tactic" was to use creations as meat shields to draw aggro while I ran past them, don't even bother trying to kill them unless there is just a single pylon. Basically, don't have a pre-summoned army, instead fly solo until you need a couple. Try moving through the area entirely in Combat Mode.(you can manually enter via the peace button) Then, when you know you'll be spotted by a Pylon(s), exit Combat and summon your 2-3 creations.

I'd either Essence Shield myself(as I would get 1-shot by pylons otherwise) or Essence Shield one of my tougher creations(Glaahk). Have the creations move closer to Pylon while attacking/whatever, while you haul ass to cover/exit/out of pylon sight range. Repeat. I did find it necessary to kill 1 pylon(retreated and came back) as no matter what I tried to run past, I'd still get caught out and die. (I had a hasted/war bless Glaahk while I spammed Essence Shield on it)

IMO, my major issue with Pylons is that they get 2-3 powerful attacks per turn in addition to high HP/def/res. If they only had 1 attack per turn, then they'd be much easier to brute force or run past if you lack Stealth.

[BlackDragon]

...I'd still like to know exactly - EXACTLY - what I'm supposed to do in the Eastern Docks. 'Exploring' to find the controls isn't really an option, or at least is extremely frustrating with a violent death waiting around every corner. As I said, I can HANDLE a single Pylon, but every possible approach seems to lead me into the crossfire of at LEAST two of them...

EDIT: Okay, finally figured it out... turns out, when the game says 'stealth OR mechanics', what it actually means is 'stealth AND mechanics'. AND enough strength to at least take on a single pylon and live to tell the tale, on top of that. =_= You have to go through the passage to the north, past the pylon in the nook (which you'd need INSANELY high Stealth to sneak past, and which is impossible to attack without being inside its on-death explosion range), into a large room with FOUR Pylons and a bait-and-switch control-panel... and then, if you have decent stealth, sneak through a fairly obvious route that ideally won't aggro any of the Pylons, down through a door in the southeast, then north again, past two more Pylons who can easily ruin your day if you don't have much stealth, and then FINALLY you can put your Mechanics to use deactivating some spirals that are powering the defenses...

Of course, the way *I* did it was to fight the pylon in the nook (losing most of my army when it blew up), then come back with a SECOND army and fight the two Pylons in the large room that were closest to the entrance, playing for distance with mixed success... and then finally throwing the ragged remains of my forces at the other two pylons to distract them while I made a dash for the exit, narrowly maneuvering past the two pylons in the passages beyond by staying at the absolute maximum distance possible... good grief.

[Oishii Kudasai]

In terms of mutagen I just leave it for later since you can end up with dryaks very quickly. Just rage them for the double dmg and let them have at it. Then pick off pylons one by one. or of course sneak past them.