Many players are leaving for Marvel Rivals, here's why

[Mbah Giman]

New Player Experience

The matchmaking is so bad, new players are matched against sweaty players. Back in august I have 50 friends playing deadlock, now I am the only one, their reason being the first 100 hours is just brutal beating and there is not even a room for having fun. The snowballing is so bad that when you feel like the enemy has laning phase locked, it's better to just quit because the next 30 min will be just you being stomped no matter how good you farm. Not to mention the newest patch where every match is ranked, and the rank system is broken af. it's either those who have no clue at all or seasoned players with 500 hours. If i tried Deadlock now, I wouldnt last 20 hours.

Bad Hero Balancing

Currently haze has 97% pick rate, and not a single nerf or patch to balance that. In lower ranks or new players match, to predict the winner it's basically just to see if the haze player is good. If she's good, her team wins, if not, then it's a normal match. They say she can be countered with return fire or knockdown, well, not if she already haz unstoppable and maxed their damage. And even if haze is countered, other heroes will punish you because you spent souls on her counters without taking account other heroes. Every mm you pray that a good haze in on your side and not on the enemy's.

The Release of Marvel Rivals

Then come the release of marvel rivals. Compared to Deadlock, it's straightforward, so many heroes to choose and even more important it's FUN. If you lose sometimes you will still have a good time. They give you a fighting chance with so many heroes to learn, and even when learning new heroes it's fun. I saw deadlock players among my friends dwindling, moving to Marvel Rivals.

If nothing changes in deadlock, this game will be another niche game or maybe even another "artifact". To hardcore players please don't hide behind the "it's pre-alpha" or "it's Icefrog" statements. By the time Deadlock releases, I don't think millions of new players will suddenly jump into it when the alternatives will have been released for sometime and will have had steady playerbase.

[Mbah Giman]

Автор сообщения: Nauct

1. When Rivals has been out for a while Noobs will get matched with Sweats, there's not as many sweats in Rivals yet. Any MOBA has a steep learning curve, especially if you're not familiar with the genre, I was owning right away because I have 15+ years experience in MOBAs and Shooters. We would have been in the same beginner lobby, how would they fix that?

2. You're using the easiest hero to play, Haze, as an example. She's similar to other heroes in team shooters, also has the rogue aspect with stealth. Before the big patch she was rated as the worst hero by high rated players. Suddenly she wasn't the worst so many people are trying the easy, familiar, strong Haze.
Idk what site you're getting your stats from, but they don't even have accurate data.

3. You have a point. MOBAs became popular because they were an easier to play alternative to RTS games. There are more people that just want a casual game to pick up and play with the homies on the weekend. If that's your thing great.
I love fighting games and they're the least popular genre, but when you play games a lot you want something with a little more depth to sink your teeth into. Deadlock is also in that category.
Since I know how to move and build the heroes, when I play Rivals, it is fun, but I feel restricted and get bored after a few short games. To each their own

good point, and you are right my point of view is not that of MOBA players, more like casual players. I like this game enough to hope that this game gets traction and become mainstream alongside dota 2 and cs2 instead of being a niche game.

and as I know from my friends who plays MOBA, they tend to stick to their most played title and only play Deadlock casually. My point is that Deadlock needs to accommodate those people to become a household game title. If the devs fail to see that then I can not see it reaching playerbase number even close to Marvel Rivals in the future.

[GANDULF PLS]

Автор сообщения: Nauct

1. When Rivals has been out for a while Noobs will get matched with Sweats, there's not as many sweats in Rivals yet. Any MOBA has a steep learning curve, especially if you're not familiar with the genre, I was owning right away because I have 15+ years experience in MOBAs and Shooters. We would have been in the same beginner lobby, how would they fix that?

2. You're using the easiest hero to play, Haze, as an example. She's similar to other heroes in team shooters, also has the rogue aspect with stealth. Before the big patch she was rated as the worst hero by high rated players. Suddenly she wasn't the worst so many people are trying the easy, familiar, strong Haze.
Idk what site you're getting your stats from, but they don't even have accurate data.

3. You have a point. MOBAs became popular because they were an easier to play alternative to RTS games. There are more people that just want a casual game to pick up and play with the homies on the weekend. If that's your thing great.
I love fighting games and they're the least popular genre, but when you play games a lot you want something with a little more depth to sink your teeth into. Deadlock is also in that category.
Since I know how to move and build the heroes, when I play Rivals, it is fun, but I feel restricted and get bored after a few short games. To each their own

Thats not understanding the issue.
Look at dota 2 vs League, its very relevant to deadlock since it shares a lot of the core mechanics dota 2 has as well.
But u can ask yourself why dota 2 has only 0,6% of the monthly playerbase that league has.
Any dota 2 player knows the answer to that.
And deadlock is having exactly the same issue because its using exactly the same kind of mechanics.
Thats the actual reason why dota 2 has no casual players to speak of.
And the same has happened with deadlock and will continue to happen no matter what is added.
Its the mechanics itself that are producing exactly what such mechanics always produce: Sweatfests.
And that always drives out casuals no matter what the game is.
This only works for casuals in single player, because they can pick their own pace in those games.

Its really just a question of what this game aims to be.
If it wants to be the next big thing as ive seen many say over these last 3 months.
Forget it, if you think that, you're delusional.
If it wants to be another niche hardcore type of game, then all of this is fine.
All i said was related to this game wanting to reach casual audience as well.
And that isnt gonna happen due to the game mechanics themselves.
Just to give 1 example: creep denying.
But really if you dont get what im talking about, then all you need to do to understand what i mean is ask a dota 2 player why no casuals play that and theyre all over at league.
Because its the exact same issue with deadlock.

I quit early september and clearly nothing fundamentally has changed.
I said back in early august that this game would be dead on arrival in terms of the casual player, and that within 3 months we would be looking at 20K daily peak players.
Was fun to get downvoted and called an idiot back then.
But i am right.

[Tobithecomic]

Автор сообщения: ChaffyExpert

Автор сообщения: Tobithecomic

Alright let's use a bit of logic here.
Every multiplayer game loses players, but in most cases you don't notice because the rate of new players joining equals it out.

Deadlock is a multiplayer game, just like with every multiplayer game players are leaving, especially with no extrinsic motivation like unlocks etc. to keep them. The game is also invite only, meaning there is a cap to the rate of new players joining.

Ranked mode was likely just introduced to capitalize on the player spike to collect data, and now all the matchmaking complaints stem from the fact that 2 completely different kinds of players are in the same queue.

Tadah, that's your big mystery for the dropping player count
On the bright side, too all the people who did play ranked, if my assumption is correct, your matches provided very valuable data for the devs, so the game can be better once it releases.

Marvel Rivals hasn't really been losing players, it's been at about the same. Deadlock has lost players, and while isn't losing as many is still pretty much declining. and there is only like 20k people playing- which is REALLY BAD for any game, especially a Valve game.

Did you even read what I said? Her let me highlight the important section again for you: "Deadlock is a multiplayer game, just like with every multiplayer game players are leaving, especially with no extrinsic motivation like unlocks etc. to keep them. The game is also invite only, meaning there is a cap to the rate of new players joining."

[GANDULF PLS]

Автор сообщения: Tobithecomic

Did you even read what I said? Her let me highlight the important section again for you: "Deadlock is a multiplayer game, just like with every multiplayer game players are leaving, especially with no extrinsic motivation like unlocks etc. to keep them. The game is also invite only, meaning there is a cap to the rate of new players joining."

A) only if the game is good, otherwise they just plummet or never manifest in the first place.
B) Of course, but the part about having no extrinsic motivation being a main reason behind it with deadlock is nonsense.
At most that can be applied to the hardcore player, because thats what they care about & motivates them to play, in any game they bother with for that matter.
But thats not the case for the average player/casual.
Nobody keeps playing helldivers because of meaningless unlocks, they keep playing because the game is fun to play.
Nobody keeps playing league for years because of extrinsic reasons, they play because they like playing the game.
Same with fortnite.
And we can go on with examples.
Those people play those games because they find them fun to play, not because of unlocks or whatever other extrinsic value.

What is true however is that all sorths of people will leave when the game is not fun and/or boring due to lack of captivating gameplay loops, sometimes lack of content, or like with deadlocks case: the mechanics of the game itself being an issue due to what kind of gameplay they end up producing.

C) Very likely to be the case.

D) as to the big "mystery" in the massive player drop:
Its simple, all the casuals have quit the game for whatever reason they have.
As have all the inbetweens.
The only thing left in the game is the hardcore crowd.
The most common reason i see cited is the unsurprising: the game is a sweatfest.
And ill refer back to my previous post, bottom 2 paragraphs.

[BECEJlA9_XYPMA]

I'll never drop Deadlock. All other games are just so shallow compared to it, Rivals don't have a 1/10 of what Deadlock has in it.

[Donut Steel]

Автор сообщения: ChaffyExpert

Автор сообщения: The Man With No Aim

Abrams, Lash, Warden, Kelvin, Grey Talon, Mirage and Infernus are all heavily masculine characters compared against their explainable backgrounds and archtypes. Only Bepop, Dynamo and Viscous give off any sign of non-alpha energy, and in different ways.

Pocket is a metereosexual that's taken it too far and goes by pronouns just to represent 'that person'.

McGuiness is hetero tomboy or butch lesbian.

Geist, Paradox, Vindicta and Wraith are feminine archetypes: Disney villainess, aristocratic playgirl, lady-in-white style ghost-witch, early comic-book heroine. This time it's Ivy who causes dissonance due to her having a high-energy feminine personality fitting her background, but a body that is animalistic with attractive feminine features such as being slightly child-like but not too much to be weird. Except it's still weird. She is Alita: Battle Goblina.

Bebop is pretty masculine, has boxer look, dynamo seems like a a scientist turned robot, which i think is more of a typically masculine trope although i could be wrong.

Overall pretty cool design. Viscous is just slime mysterio.

Pocket only had "they/them" because he has a bunch of other souls, like the coat or the frog thing in the suitcase- no idea what that's about, Asian man with ghost frog is... unique.

I singled them out because they each have something that challenges the masculinity they do have, but didn't go into detail as my post was already long.

Bebop's is coded masculine by his voice and broad shoulders, but like Dynamo he is a robot. Unlike Dynamo, he has always been a robot; he's not running on amoral logic out of habit and practice, but because his brain is a computer. He has a man's personality, but not a man's needs. He therefore does not have the capacity for stoicism, courage or genuine selflessness, because he sacrifices nothing himself. What he does risk is the feelings of his creator if she discovers he's a career criminal; so he compromises because he knows what her feelings would be even if he doesn't agree or understand them.

Dynamo is capable of actual heroism and is demonstrating it by continuing to work as a professor despite what has happened to him. It works because he leaves it completely ambiguous as to whether as a scientist he's fascinated by his new form, or as a man he's devastated by losing his human body(in Robocop 2, attempts at duplicating him lead to the subjects killing themselves). We know from the fact that he's desperate enough to work for a Patron that he is motivated to regain his humanity.

Viscous is the oddest because not only is he not remotely human, he's the most optimistic, and basically has all the powers of a slapstick cartoon character.

[ChaffyExpert]

Автор сообщения: The Man With No Aim

Автор сообщения: ChaffyExpert

Bebop is pretty masculine, has boxer look, dynamo seems like a a scientist turned robot, which i think is more of a typically masculine trope although i could be wrong.

Overall pretty cool design. Viscous is just slime mysterio.

Pocket only had "they/them" because he has a bunch of other souls, like the coat or the frog thing in the suitcase- no idea what that's about, Asian man with ghost frog is... unique.

I singled them out because they each have something that challenges the masculinity they do have, but didn't go into detail as my post was already long.

Bebop's is coded masculine by his voice and broad shoulders, but like Dynamo he is a robot. Unlike Dynamo, he has always been a robot; he's not running on amoral logic out of habit and practice, but because his brain is a computer. He has a man's personality, but not a man's needs. He therefore does not have the capacity for stoicism, courage or genuine selflessness, because he sacrifices nothing himself. What he does risk is the feelings of his creator if she discovers he's a career criminal; so he compromises because he knows what her feelings would be even if he doesn't agree or understand them.

Dynamo is capable of actual heroism and is demonstrating it by continuing to work as a professor despite what has happened to him. It works because he leaves it completely ambiguous as to whether as a scientist he's fascinated by his new form, or as a man he's devastated by losing his human body(in Robocop 2, attempts at duplicating him lead to the subjects killing themselves). We know from the fact that he's desperate enough to work for a Patron that he is motivated to regain his humanity.

Viscous is the oddest because not only is he not remotely human, he's the most optimistic, and basically has all the powers of a slapstick cartoon character.

I dunno the details of the story or such.

I still want to know what that ghost frog thing is about.

[Kyle]

I agree that Deadlock has some big bad qualities, as much as I like the game.

I would like to try out new characters/builds, but if I do, I end up:
-Getting yelled at by my team for not being 100% MLG pro extra good at the hero/build I'm playing
-Getting snowballed by enemy team because, since I don't know what I'm doing, I am worse at it
-Getting bad manners from enemy team who mock you
-Getting stuck in an unwinnable game for 20 to 40+ mins in what is essentially an insufferable chore without being able to leave or surrender.

So what ends up happening is I stick to the one or two heroes/builds that I know since the beginning and thus I'm good at, which eventually gets boring and feels more like a chore.

Even then, you can find yourself:
-Facing a counter to your character, which obliterates you from early game
-Facing one of the broken characters, those who can farm exponentially faster and double everyone else's soul count by mid to late game, which means it doesn't matter what you do you can't do anything to them unless you gank them with 2 to 3 teammates
-Even if you do good, you get yelled at by your team because you could be doing better
-Either win or lose a game after 20 to 40+ min which honestly, doesn't feel that fun once you've won/lost with the same hero/build for weeks

Of course, you could farm to get ahead and what not, but farming is boring, I don't want to spend 20+ mins per match shooting at a wall for some arbitrary number on my screen, it's not fun. So you either have a less enjoyable experience by farming or you go below average in soul count and lose, having a miserable experience anyways

Overall, what I dislike about Deadlock is its sweatiness, overly competitive atmosphere that allows for no fun to be had, its rock-papers-scissors system where some characters just outright nullify you, and the many unbalanced characters that are a must-pick and that once a pro gets them they can win the game by themselves.

Of course, you could just mute everyone and roll with whatever heroes/builds you want to have fun, but then there's no teamplay to be had, and many of the previous problems still persist, such as having to farm to keep up or being countered/snowballed.

Eventually the game becomes more frustrating to play than it is fun. One of the parts that attracted me to Deadlock was the hero build aspect, I wanted to create wacky builds to mess around and have fun, but if you do you get a horrible experience for 40+ mins and are punished for it. This game does not allow fun, it only allows winning. Which I bet valve loves since I can ensure you they plan to make this thing their next Esport moneymaker, but that's the same thing that killed the original overwatch and counter strike for me. I'm a casual gamer who plays for fun, not to have a second job.

If that's what this game is, that's fine, I'm sure plenty of people will love it, and I don't think this game will die like artifact died, not at all, but it may not get as big a playerbase as team fortress 2 did, since that game is so focused around fun, they tried to make it another competitive hardcore Esport ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and failed miserably.

So by all means keep playing and enjoying the game if you do, but I don't, not anymore. It was fun at first when everyone was messing around and figuring out the game, now everyone's a sweatlord and an edgelord, and I honestly can't be bothered to hear russians screaming at me after 8+ hours of work at the end of the day while getting snowballed and teabagged by yet another haze that somehow doubles everyone else's soulcount.

[pakoo]

Автор сообщения: Monky Games

Marvel Rivals has actual heroes where men look like men and women look like women. The hero design is what we all actually want. Deadlock is DEI garbage.

i dont care how they look like or what .if the game balance is garbage . i click uninstall.

[doskpc]

Автор сообщения: Tobithecomic

Alright let's use a bit of logic here.
Every multiplayer game loses players, but in most cases you don't notice because the rate of new players joining equals it out.

Deadlock is a multiplayer game, just like with every multiplayer game players are leaving, especially with no extrinsic motivation like unlocks etc. to keep them. The game is also invite only, meaning there is a cap to the rate of new players joining.

Ranked mode was likely just introduced to capitalize on the player spike to collect data, and now all the matchmaking complaints stem from the fact that 2 completely different kinds of players are in the same queue.

Tadah, that's your big mystery for the dropping player count
On the bright side, too all the people who did play ranked, if my assumption is correct, your matches provided very valuable data for the devs, so the game can be better once it releases.

Pure copium. This is a product, in alpha, but a product. There where, at a time 170k customers who get out of their way to play this game out of curiosity.

How many do you guess will come back after 1-2 years (being optimist) when this games reaches 1.0? Until there, Marvel Rivals is solidifying their player base and Deadlock is old news.

One more game Valve kills before the complete release (Artifact).

[Novostranger]

Because Marvel Rivals is actually a fun, casualish game and not an insane mess with extremely a stupidly high skill celling, anti beginner friendly nature that is Deadlock.

In MR the beginner friendly heroes are actually good. I recommend Iron Man or Hulk. My favourite characters of MR.

[Blue]

It feels so fresh, I really love it, shame it does seem like it will never release. Valve will put it back in the oven then cancel it imo.

[Babilonio]

If Marvel Rivals is so good and sucessful why are its shills working overtime?

[Xweapon]

I wish i was playing deadlock instead of rivals but im playing rivals cause it gives me a sense of progression and has content

[dxdx]

Rivals is a garbage game for casuals who can't use their brain to play. It's so slow even my grandma would play it.