Get Obliterated Meta

[DeadOptic]

ffs valve, power creep is destroying this game and there is a distinct lack of any effort in reeling in this absurd DPS meta that has sapped the life out of this game.

Lash: Mobility, Burst Damage, Self Sustain, CC, Game ending Ultimate.

His ult is arguably better and easier to use than Dynamo's yet it has a vastly shorter cooldown for being able to stun and reposition an entire enemy team. His Slam has insane burst damage for being borderline unavoidable and his whip is just icing on the cake with MORE burst damage and a heal to boot.

Talon: Insane Burst Damage, CC, High Gun Damage, Range

700 damage base arrow with 4 charges and 11s cooldown. Nope, this is absurd. Has utility and a potentially map wide execute with additional spirit scaling. His charge shot should NOT do more damage than his ultimate.

Dynamo: Team Healing, CC, Burst Damage, Invulnerability, Gun damage, Game ending Ultimate

His Kinetic pulse has the highest AOE of any burst damage ability in the game, it has charges, and can do upwards of 600 damage with a knockup and debuffs to boot. This just like Talon is absurd but for different reasons. It shouldnt do that much damage especially since Dynamo as a character has so much utility. Kinetic pulse itself requires very little skill to hit and it is a utility skill in of itself.

Mirage: Tank, High Gun Damage, High Spirit Damage, Intel, Mobility, Invulnerability, CC

The jack of all trades. He does everything. Hard to kill, does high damage, hybrid spirit and gun damage, high range, high firerate, can just ignore damage and stun you at the same time, then teleport to the other side of the map. Uh uh, something needs to be done about this clown. Give him a weakness, something he isnt good at that can be exploited. We saw haze lose her spirit scaling ultimate for this reason, kill this unstoppable annoyance.

Mcguinness: WALL, High Gun Damage, CC, TURRET, Healing

Mcguinness is in a class of her own. She has so much utility that no one else has. The wall just utterly shuts people down offensively and defensively. Her turrets just farm damage against her enemies without her needing to have any input whatsoever, and she has one of the best healing abilities in the game. This is on top of her wall having a stun for some god forsaken reason, and her primary literally being a minigun with high magazine and fire rate. Another jack of all trades but truly, why give her a stun? Her wall already shuts down most ultimate by being a literal ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wall, it doesn't need to just disable them.

All of this is compounded by Melee being jank as all hell and very strong, a lack of counters to many of these issues and the fear Valve seems to have about making any impactful changes. We nerfed vindicta to hell for having an execute but we wont nerf Talon who essentially has 2. Burst damage as a whole needs to be toned down and some real common sense needs to be applied to these Do it all abilities and characters. If it has charges, it shouldnt be a nuke. If it does a lot of damage, it shouldnt have CC built in. If it is hard to kill, it shouldnt be able to chase you down to kingdom come then escape scott free. I dont know why this is even an issue at this point. Some of these problem children have been in the game since the very beginning and we're still waiting for anything meaningful.

Go crazy, give us a month of Afterburn being undispellable. Then give us a month where lash has a 220s cooldown on his ult. Give us a month where knockup is removed from the game. Dont be scared, destroy some of these characters then build them back up anew. I just want to see some actual change in this game. 3 Lanes was forever ago and that didnt really change the roster at all. Even if the nerfs/buffs I want dont ever come, at least it will be something different kicking my butt. But God forbid. Please valve, make some waves for the love of god.

[Doc. Bigfoot]

naw man seems fair to me

[GoodFriendsGood]

I second the talon arrows criticism. It is absurd how good they are even in laning phase and you have next to no chance of evading it due to how huge a hit box it has.

[Sir_Concis]

im done with this game too, valve is doing ♥♥♥♥. the whole ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game is about lash talon calico and seven you can buy every things for counter they still unkillable cos of mobility/ sustain.
2 month without an real update (yep the last one was just shjit like just breaking mouvement so its worse than before)
no message for just we can know what they do.
matchmaking is just terrible i never saw that before ( i got new players in ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ archon 5 games )
cheater are already in the game and a lot just dont hide coz they know valve gonna do nothing about that.
im done with valve they dont care about they're games.

[GατΠιсЭ]

they are obv toxic trolls; y even acknowledge them?

[Commander Moron]

Originally posted by GoodFriendsGood:

I second the talon arrows criticism. It is absurd how good they are even in laning phase and you have next to no chance of evading it due to how huge a hit box it has.

Yeah talon's arrows are insane

[clarence]

skill issue

[GoodFriendsGood]

Originally posted by cornelius:

skill issue

Wow. Didn't see that coming.

[DenzelWashingMachine]

I don't fully agree the meta just changed. It used to be High spirit was good now its High attack dmg/guns. The change rendered a lot of characters useless and altered play styles. They should allow for spirit or gun scaling at hero pick you should get the option to choose which trait to scale more of the 3 shop traits. Only 1 should get a higher scaling this way you can play the style you want and the game should be a little more balanced for counters offensive and defensive wise.

[GoodFriendsGood]

Originally posted by DenzelWashingMachine:

I don't fully agree the meta just changed. It used to be High spirit was good now its High attack dmg/guns. The change rendered a lot of characters useless and altered play styles. They should allow for spirit or gun scaling at hero pick you should get the option to choose which trait to scale more of the 3 shop traits. Only 1 should get a higher scaling this way you can play the style you want and the game should be a little more balanced for counters offensive and defensive wise.

When did this change happen? Vindicta gunbuild was nerfed into the ground last patch last year. I see no new change notes besides the major map rework?

[Amoretto]

skill issue

[DenzelWashingMachine]

Originally posted by GoodFriendsGood:

Originally posted by DenzelWashingMachine:

I don't fully agree the meta just changed. It used to be High spirit was good now its High attack dmg/guns. The change rendered a lot of characters useless and altered play styles. They should allow for spirit or gun scaling at hero pick you should get the option to choose which trait to scale more of the 3 shop traits. Only 1 should get a higher scaling this way you can play the style you want and the game should be a little more balanced for counters offensive and defensive wise.

When did this change happen? Vindicta gunbuild was nerfed into the ground last patch last year. I see no new change notes besides the major map rework?

A good while back I took a break for like 5-7 months after spirit nerfs took place not just to items but abilities. So you have to basically re-adapt entire builds and play styles for some characters. It is actually annoying and could even be one of the bigger factors of drops in player counts besides other games coming out. If I left because of that I am sure others did too. I came back recently and its still the same so IDK I guess I have to re-work to gun builds or something. I hope valve offers build load outs you can swap between so you can focus on another category of items etc besides all gun.

[Nauct]

Originally posted by DeadOptic:

Lash: Mobility, Burst Damage, Self Sustain, CC, Game ending Ultimate.

His ult is arguably better and easier to use than Dynamo's yet it has a vastly shorter cooldown for being able to stun and reposition an entire enemy team. His Slam has insane burst damage for being borderline unavoidable and his whip is just icing on the cake with MORE burst damage and a heal to boot.

His Ult can be very good, but you can CC him out of it, hide from it, if he doesn't have it upgraded it wont stun so you have time to use an ability item. IMO in comparison to Dynamos it's balanced

Originally posted by DeadOptic:

Talon: Insane Burst Damage, CC, High Gun Damage, Range

700 damage base arrow with 4 charges and 11s cooldown. Nope, this is absurd. Has utility and a potentially map wide execute with additional spirit scaling. His charge shot should NOT do more damage than his ultimate.

I play Yamato so it is kind of silly he gets an inifinite range arrow that is more powerful than my charged short range beam. If you knock him out of the sky or get on top of him he does kind of suck. Needs a good team to play with.

Originally posted by DeadOptic:

Dynamo: Team Healing, CC, Burst Damage, Invulnerability, Gun damage, Game ending Ultimate

His Kinetic pulse has the highest AOE of any burst damage ability in the game, it has charges, and can do upwards of 600 damage with a knockup and debuffs to boot. This just like Talon is absurd but for different reasons. It shouldnt do that much damage especially since Dynamo as a character has so much utility. Kinetic pulse itself requires very little skill to hit and it is a utility skill in of itself.

His Kinetic Pulse in comparison to Yamato's powerslash it is pretty funny

Originally posted by DeadOptic:

Mirage: Tank, High Gun Damage, High Spirit Damage, Intel, Mobility, Invulnerability, CC

The jack of all trades. He does everything. Hard to kill, does high damage, hybrid spirit and gun damage, high range, high firerate, can just ignore damage and stun you at the same time, then teleport to the other side of the map. Uh uh, something needs to be done about this clown. Give him a weakness, something he isnt good at that can be exploited. We saw haze lose her spirit scaling ultimate for this reason, kill this unstoppable annoyance.

Just his ultimate alone makes him very strong. I'd say his weakness is he has an ult that is amazing, but once you're in a fight with it it's like a missing ability.

Originally posted by DeadOptic:

Mcguinness: WALL, High Gun Damage, CC, TURRET, Healing

Mcguinness is in a class of her own. She has so much utility that no one else has. The wall just utterly shuts people down offensively and defensively. Her turrets just farm damage against her enemies without her needing to have any input whatsoever, and she has one of the best healing abilities in the game. This is on top of her wall having a stun for some god forsaken reason, and her primary literally being a minigun with high magazine and fire rate. Another jack of all trades but truly, why give her a stun? Her wall already shuts down most ultimate by being a literal ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wall, it doesn't need to just disable them.

Nah this character is trash bro, she's like a stationary tank

Originally posted by DeadOptic:

All of this is compounded by Melee being jank as all hell and very strong, a lack of counters to many of these issues....

Melee is weak, at least the higher you go in MMR. Parry=death and you can parry on reaction. Abrams can get a guaranteed heavy melee off his charge, situations like this it is strong.


Most of your complaints are about high spirit damage.
If they have a high spirit team or a fed character using spirit damage and you don't build spiritshield/spiritarmor then that's just a build issue. Not to mention they're probably getting reduced spirit resist items, so if you have 0 spirit resist now you're taking multiplicative damage at negative resist.


Against knockups like Dynamo/Mirage, you don't want to be under a bridge in lane, against Lash obviously you want to keep high ground as much as possible.
Dynamo/Lash ulti you don't want to stay grouped together.
If Talon is problem you need knockdown/phantomstrike, at least someone on your team.
Many heroes you just need a form of healing reduction.

If you're building correctly each game there isn't anything that becomes a huge problem.

[DeadOptic]

Originally posted by Nauct:

His Ult can be very good, but you can CC him out of it, hide from it, if he doesn't have it upgraded it wont stun so you have time to use an ability item. IMO in comparison to Dynamos it's balanced

You can say the same thing about Dynamo Ult. Dynamo has less mobility and NEEDS to get almost point blank with his target. If the team spreads out then its only 1 person per ult and Dynamo is super vulnerable during his ultimate. Lash can appear out of thin air and ult an entire team with infinite vertical range and much more scale-able range. Not to mention he then gets to hit his powerful slam on everyone that he's ulted while Dynamo doesnt directly do much damage at all during his ult and is very team reliant.

They did nerf Lash in the most recent patch to his slam damage and ult cooldown.

Originally posted by Nauct:

I'd say his weakness is he has an ult that is amazing, but once you're in a fight with it it's like a missing ability.

His ultimate can be used to escape mid fight if need be, especially if he's stolen a lot of HP. During a fight he will be doing constant high bullet damage from great range, making an enemy a sitting duck, procing spirit and bullet procs constantly on every enemy and dealing burst and overtime damage while dodging bullets thanks to his sandstorm. Mirage doesnt need his ultimate to decimate in a fight which is among one of the reasons he is too strong in my opinion.

Originally posted by Nauct:

Melee is weak, at least the higher you go in MMR. Parry=death and you can parry on reaction. Abrams can get a guaranteed heavy melee off his charge, situations like this it is strong.

My biggest concern here is melee jankiness. Sometimes it just hits when it clearly should miss, or miss randomly. Also melee faking is something people can do which puts parry on cooldown. Melee in general is just additional burst damage that is over scaled in early game with a lot of stupid interactions regarding height, distance and dashes. They need to fix melee's hit reg before I will consider it a fair mechanic.