Lack of Skill-Shots Creates Undesirable Gameplay

[Scunt]

As a seasoned MOBA player, I feel the substitution of skill-shots for "lock on within distance" abilities creates a playstyle/gameplay that is less thoughtful and expressive compared to other MOBA's. My argument for this is that skill-shots can add multiple layers of thought into every fight or game -not that there isn't any skill-shots, but that the "lock on" abilities far outweigh others-, the ability to bait out an opponents movement or ability in order to create an advantage for yourself in any situation is something i feel is necessary for ability based gameplay. Say you're in a situation where you are fighting a Bebop and you know they will win the encounter and you need to LEAVE NOW, you are running away and you are doing everything you can do to bait out his hook so he can miss and you get away (If he doesn't have his 4). But with character's like Lash, as long as you are within a certain distance and line of sight then any kind of movement or bait is almost worthless in the encounter for escape. Whether top-down like League or Dota (I haven't played too much Dota so please educate me if i'm wrong), or 3rd person like Smite- all have gameplay mechanics that allow frequent baiting and expression. I'd like to know if anyone else feels the same way or i should just study more on how the gameplay exactly works. I'd also enjoy any counter-argument feedback i can get. Thank you.

[Aimee]

I think its fine to keep the current characters as they are, but to add more skill-shot focused characters from here on out.
Having the lock on click abilities when the game is still early in development is good for new players, and the characters that have it also rarely do it with abilities thare are unfitting for it. For example 7's stun has a delay so making it a lock on makes sense, otherwise you would want an instant stun.

More skilled based characters in the future would be nice though.

[Crazy C]

The creator of this post plays Abrams btw

[The Southener]

Personally its not the heroes per say is the active ability's that i think need to be a skill shot. However yes they do need to be careful on non skill shot.

[Asclepiust]

I agreed with OP. This "leftclick" meta not that fun. Game with vertical gameplay + a lot of movement and we use it just to press and hold one button till enemy hero dead.
Hope devs add more skillshot heroes or nerfs overall gun dmg.

[Bug Guy]

Theres always been "click to use" abilities in Mobas. League is extremely skillshot heavy, much more so than Dota. This isnt necessarily a bad thing, much more a stylistic choice. Dota has less skillshots and more click abilities. They are likely leaning more towards the Dota side of things (it is Valve after all, it would only make sense), especially with the increased and crazy movement that can be done. Because there are so many ways to CC characters, you have to be careful with adding powerful skillshots into the game (there are already several that can be disgusting).

Im not saying I agree or disagree with having more of 1 over the other, as long as the skills themselves feel balanced. The one thing I do disagree with, is in saying that they dont allow for as much skill expression. You can obviously say they require less expression, because they dont have to be aimed, but they still require position and timing, and the enemy can play around their range (like Lady Gheists Ult. A big skill check is staying far enough away from her when she is at low health)

. One of the most unique skills in Dota was Nightmare, one of Bane's abilities. It was a click ability that allowed for some absolutely incredible plays and baits. In Deadlock, Viscous's Cube can do some super cool saves, and if it was some sort of projectile, I think it would feel terrible to try and use on teammates or oneself.

All this to say that I like the presence of them. They allow for a more diverse range of what you are able to do, such as targeting oneself, or simply guaranteeing an abilities activation (but not necessarily its effect, like with Debuff Remover on Bebop Bomb). Everything needs balance though, from the amount of such abilities and how strong they are to how they are used

[Stellar Fox]

the game is full of skill shots, it's called shooting your opponent in the head. when you are not shooting your opponent in the head you are actually doing bad. the skill shot part of shooting them in the head is doing it while they are going at 50 kmh and jumping and flying around.

top down games are in a 2d space and they aren't shooters.

[DOOM Maternal]

Originally posted by Stellar Fox:

the game is full of skill shots, it's called shooting your opponent in the head. when you are not shooting your opponent in the head you are actually doing bad. the skill shot part of shooting them in the head is doing it while they are going at 50 kmh and jumping and flying around.

top down games are in a 2d space and they aren't shooters.

Take your example, imagine your sweating your ass off trying to hit consistent head-shots on this character jumping around. You do a good job and hit 90% of those shots, they miss you constantly and only do chip damage to you.

Then they click a button with there ability and delete you instantly. That's the problem, you put in a ton of effort, outplayed them mechanically, and all they had to do was a click a button and they win.

#1 reason I quit paladins back in the day. They kept introducing character after character with auto aim abilities that gave wayyy too much value.

[iStealthyᵗᵗᵛ]

stop coping

[Kai]

Not sure I agree with, or even understand, your specific point but overall the game does have too many braindead targeted, AoE spam and "press 1 button and AFK for 10 seconds" abilities. Even abilities that require aim, like VIndicta's ult, are being dumbed down with buffs to the hit radius so you can literally miss and be rewarded with a kill.

[Sham!]

Originally posted by DOOM Maternal:

Originally posted by Stellar Fox:

the game is full of skill shots, it's called shooting your opponent in the head. when you are not shooting your opponent in the head you are actually doing bad. the skill shot part of shooting them in the head is doing it while they are going at 50 kmh and jumping and flying around.

top down games are in a 2d space and they aren't shooters.

Take your example, imagine your sweating your ass off trying to hit consistent head-shots on this character jumping around. You do a good job and hit 90% of those shots, they miss you constantly and only do chip damage to you.

Then they click a button with there ability and delete you instantly. That's the problem, you put in a ton of effort, outplayed them mechanically, and all they had to do was a click a button and they win.

#1 reason I quit paladins back in the day. They kept introducing character after character with auto aim abilities that gave wayyy too much value.

Isnt this just the nature of the beast tho? Even if there are guns this game is a moba

[DOOM Maternal]

Originally posted by Sham!:

Originally posted by DOOM Maternal:

Take your example, imagine your sweating your ass off trying to hit consistent head-shots on this character jumping around. You do a good job and hit 90% of those shots, they miss you constantly and only do chip damage to you.

Then they click a button with there ability and delete you instantly. That's the problem, you put in a ton of effort, outplayed them mechanically, and all they had to do was a click a button and they win.

#1 reason I quit paladins back in the day. They kept introducing character after character with auto aim abilities that gave wayyy too much value.

Isnt this just the nature of the beast tho? Even if there are guns this game is a moba

It is, but every ability could be a skill-shot, i.e battlerite. The problem with that is that the game becomes that much more mechanically intensive and you alienate a large amount of potential players. Having to not only track your target, secure, deny, and hit 4 abilities would be a lot for some. Hell, we've already seen a ton of people complain about the entire deny mechanic and ask for it to be removed (don't listen to these people pls).

I get what op is saying though. it's nice to be able to use your mastery of the movement to dodge, duck, dip, and dive instead of being targeted and stunned with no counter-play. But since its a moba, if your being chased you can use items to escape, so there is counter-play in a different sense.

Its a fine balance. I imagine the goal is to have a competitive game with skill expression, but also a game that most people want to play, and not just the most hardcore moba or fps bros.

[Aimee]

Originally posted by DOOM Maternal:

Its a fine balance. I imagine the goal is to have a competitive game with skill expression, but also a game that most people want to play, and not just the most hardcore moba or fps bros.

League is still alive somehow, so skillshot focused gameplay clearly isnt too much of a barrier.

If Deadlock ever wants to be a serious esports title, and thats where most games like this get their fame and money from... they will need to make it as skill based as posible where skillshots change the outcome of fights.
Otherwise it will just be a matter of time till other titles overtake Deadlocks hype, and the playerbase dies out in time. Thats not a great outcome either.

[VaporeonCunny]

I don't really know much about MOBAs but if your referring to things like decay just being cast and click requiring actual aim and timing or you miss the cast I 100% agree with you.