Streithening walls by high is an issue, in my opinion.

[newvan]

1. It causes bland optimal builds; you just build panel houses with 3 or more floors.

2. Building walls in depth doesn't give you much; there is no reason to build wide walls. 

I think wall streithening should work from all adjacent blocks. Or even only from debt blocks and weakening from high blocks, it will make building castels more realistic and making towers harder to plan; at this moment it is just stacking blocks at infinite high + endless round starecases.

[Olleus]

It certainly feels weird and is "unrealistic" compared to fortifications manned by archers in history. But the point is that, in truth, having tall walls is only helpful in that it makes them harder to scale (by ladder / tower / etc...). Considering that's not what the horrors try to do, there really would be no point to building walls higher than they can reach in games. So the devs added a reason for us to build tall walls. Which is nice, because tall walls simply look awesome, and building in 3D is fun.

The game would be less interesting if it was just super thick, squat walls a few meters high.

And there is some reason to build "deep" in the game - to have enough space for all troop types, and merlons/windows, and flags, and the special weapon bonuses.

[GeforceJoe]

Build a maze of walls throughout your base with doorways and a lot of the suspension bridges! I’m so bad I don’t look for the clinch points I build around all my buildings as a big cluster. Definitely never looks the same

[Deathfromace]

Publicado originalmente por GeforceJoe:

Build a maze of walls throughout your base with doorways and a lot of the suspension bridges! I’m so bad I don’t look for the clinch points I build around all my buildings as a big cluster. Definitely never looks the same

If we can make this an old Starcraft 1 maze tower defense came I am down

[GeforceJoe]

My archers are traveling through my base like the old school marry poppins movie when they are singing the chimney song,

[thekinghippo]

Kind-of agree. It discourages anything shorter than 7+merlon which looks silly in places where you really just needed a simple wall. I think the different unit types provide enough reason to build tall in many, but not all, places and the unit buffing objects give enough reason to build deep.

Publicado originalmente por Olleus:

But the point is that, in truth, having tall walls is only helpful in that it makes them harder to scale (by ladder / tower / etc...). Considering that's not what the horrors try to do, there really would be no point to building walls higher than they can reach in games.

Alright, hear me out. A horror type that scales walls sounds awesome!

[newvan]

Publicado originalmente por Olleus:

And there is some reason to build "deep" in the game - to have enough space for all troop types, and merlons/windows, and flags, and the special weapon bonuses.

But you don't really need to; all you need is 1 tile-thick wall + half arch or arch and wooden supports with wooden L-shaped blocks. It will give you all the space you need from 5 tiles wide on top and 4 tiles space inside in basic form. And you can stack it as tall as you wish. All of that with just 1 tile thick wall.

[Olleus]

Publicado originalmente por newvan:

Publicado originalmente por Olleus:

And there is some reason to build "deep" in the game - to have enough space for all troop types, and merlons/windows, and flags, and the special weapon bonuses.

But you don't really need to; all you need is 1 tile-thick wall + half arch or arch and wooden supports with wooden L-shaped blocks. It will give you all the space you need from 5 tiles wide on top and 4 tiles space inside in basic form. And you can stack it as tall as you wish. All of that with just 1 tile thick wall.

Which is great until a single brick gets destroyed and everything collapses at once. I'm not saying you need to build all your walls 5-bricks deep, but there is a trade-off. Thickness leads to redundancy. Redundancy leads to safety. Safety leads to fear. Fear leads to the dark side. Wait, where was I going with this...

Publicado originalmente por thekinghippo:

Publicado originalmente por Olleus:

But the point is that, in truth, having tall walls is only helpful in that it makes them harder to scale (by ladder / tower / etc...). Considering that's not what the horrors try to do, there really would be no point to building walls higher than they can reach in games.

Alright, hear me out. A horror type that scales walls sounds awesome!

It good be interesting, if balanced properly, ie, they're slow and weak. Of course, I can already imagine the hate they'll generate from people complaining that their cookie-cutter strategy doesn't work. Just like flying enemies do in tower defence games...

[newvan]

My main point is that game incurage you build like that it is optimal, easy, and stackable. It looks bad and bland, and if you build something creative, it will be worse. Cause
cascade (terrase) builds don't affect your streithening.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3300266881

And lets agree - this is stupid and shouldn't work like that.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3300272387

[ajmurphy1986]

Publicado originalmente por newvan:

I think wall streithening should work from all adjacent blocks.

I like this idea. You would still have the motivation to build high due to damage bonus

[newvan]

In ideal, for me, height should affect damage, range, and vision for certain troops, and thickness of the wall should affect durability and weight of on-top structures. So you need both, height for damage and thickness for survival. You still need 10+ hight for crossbows sweet buff, and it shouldn't be easy to put anywhere.

[Olleus]

Publicado originalmente por newvan:

My main point is that game incurage you build like that it is optimal, easy, and stackable.

IMO, that's closer to the real "problem": that the same architecture is basically ideal in all circumstances. We need different kinds of enemies, or different terrain, that need to be countered by different types of walls. Force the player to adapt and solve changing problems. Otherwise, once you've found a good setup, the game loses a lot of its interest.

Imagine swamps that limit how high you can build. Or enemies that can tunnel underground (by passing walls) but only a couple of tiles and if there's an empty tile for them to emerge on. Or the opposite, enemies that can leap very far but are blocked by short walls. Or, that classic of the genre, flying enemies.

Obviously for these to work the game would need some pretty serious re-balancing, and maybe for the player to be told that some enemy types will only come from some directions ahead of time. But adding this kind of diversity would increase the game's shelf life massively.

[Qwertystop]

I haven't played too much of the game yet - in the campaign stage that introduced mistfuel now - but I have gotten an intuition that properly staggered bricklaying in a wall *maybe* does a *little* to spread out support and toughness? However, I'm not sure how it works, and I might just be misinterpreting something and there's nothing there. In which case, adding something like that might help (while also permitting e.g. buttressing)

[Danerol Lord]

I think that horrors that destroying stone walls with their bare hands is stupid in first place. It is stone, you know, it is tough. Seems like after cataclysm all stone in the world was turned into tofu.
It will be more logical if small horrors tried to climb on walls to kill defenders. It will add more depth to gameplay. Small horrors climbing wall, that means player need melee units to repel them, some traps on walls, you will build tall walls not only for their hp bonus but for actual survival for your units. It will make difference between enemy units more important. When everyone just hitting walls you don't need to choose where shooting, just strike bigger monsters.
Also we need more flexible target system for units. In starship troopers game you could choose for every individual unit their priority enemy type.

[DopamineDaydreams (Shardj)]

Publicado originalmente por newvan:

My main point is that game incurage you build like that it is optimal, easy, and stackable. It looks bad and bland, and if you build something creative, it will be worse. Cause
cascade (terrase) builds don't affect your streithening.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3300266881

And lets agree - this is stupid and shouldn't work like that.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3300272387

That isn't optimal at all though... maybe the game has changed since you posted this though

[Overread]

Publicado originalmente por DopamineDaydreams (Shardj):

Publicado originalmente por newvan:

My main point is that game incurage you build like that it is optimal, easy, and stackable. It looks bad and bland, and if you build something creative, it will be worse. Cause
cascade (terrase) builds don't affect your streithening.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3300266881

And lets agree - this is stupid and shouldn't work like that.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3300272387

That isn't optimal at all though... maybe the game has changed since you posted this though

It's an older post so some elements likely have changed around. Height only gives you so much of a block bonus and then it stops.
Furthermore if you build high and the biters take out the bottom stone and your wall is 1 block thick you'll get a cascade fail very easily and suddenly your wall is in bits. So there is benefit to building deep and also in choosing how you arrange the blocks so that you can lose a whole line at the front and still have your wall above functional (or at least not totally collapsed).