Master is too easy, sorry

[tao2911]

Enemies need to do at least 20% more damage and have at least 20% more health. Bosses on the original Warrior could kill you in 3-4 shots (at least in the beginning), now it's like 6-7 shots for the same boss. Bosses also have less life than they used to on original Warrior.

Checkpoint system and heals are fine, but it ain't "master" by any means. I don't see the problem with the original Warrior stats in terms of HP / Damage. The issues were gameplay stuff. Seems like instead of reverting to that original, you took the current easy mode Warrior and buffed that a bit more.

Hate to complain but considering most of the people who said it was too easy actually liked the original Warrior mode (minus the stupid stuff), that should have been a clue as to the direction for this new difficulty level.

[jonheather96]

Developers, please bring back your game to the way it was originally before all the patches. Your game is just not the same. The game was so much more challenging and fun before it got nerfed.

[JasuBakuhatsu]

I kind of agree and disagree. The original Warrior difficulty was too difficult for all but a tiny minority of players (I'm one of them, I loved it). The new Warrior difficulty is much too easy and lets you face tank through almost everything without actually learning to play the game properly. The new Master difficulty is more forgiving and less frustrating than OG Warrior, but still challenging enough that players will need to engage with the combat mechanics and learn the boss fights properly. This kind of sucks because the description for Master difficulty will probably scare most players away, but I think it's actually the best way for most people to enjoy the game currently.

Ideally, I'd like to see the new Master difficulty replace Warrior difficulty, and for Master to be reworked into something closer to the original difficulty or harder. However, this isn't a deal breaker for me. I'm content with the new Master mode and will be happy to go back and finish my Caster and Scout playthroughs now, having quit in disgust after the last patch. The game is great again.

[argent_albatross]

I appreciate that the devs have responded to the feedback of the hardcore fanbase and offered a new difficulty option, but I agree with tao, it is still not hard enough to really be engaging.

I would like to see things return as close as possible to the original build, with only minor tweaks where absolutely necessary. At least for the Scout class. I haven't played the others so it's possible they needed greater adjustment. But pre-patch Scout on Warrior felt very well balanced.

If the game had originally released in the state it is now in, I probably could have come to it with different expectations and still found some enjoyment in it. But now I can't stop comparing it to how things used to be. It was something that I loved and that was taken away from me before I could finish it. That's what makes me the most sad.

[Atomic Noodles]

Do their attacks do comparable damage to Version 1.00 if you don't upgrade the weapons? I imagine the game might be easier just because you guys have already ran through the game so you've already adjusted well into the enemy and reacting properly?

[Chocos Ramabotti]

I tried to calm down people but all I got were clown awards, It's so obvious that you shouldn't thank developers in advance and first test the difficulty.

This game is a mess, how many times should they change it again until everyone is satisfied? What baffles me most is that they changed how the game was originally and now try to make some lousy compromises. It should've been the opposite keep the original difficulty intact and making compromises for a playerbase who want to have a more casual-orientated experience. (and of course improve on slanky controls)

Instead they have turned the tables and now it looks like people who bought game for the way it was are whiners that can never be satisfied with anything. It really disgusts me the way how they are doing this, cause they've taken something away, what for a lot of people might be their purpose for buying the game. (me included)

I appreciate that the devs have responded to the feedback of the hardcore fanbase and offered a new difficulty option, but I agree with tao, it is still not hard enough to really be engaging.

I don't appreciate it at all, it's their obligation to come up with an replacement, because they were the ones who have taken the original experience away. That's like someone steals 1000$ from you, then comes back 1 month later and gives you 400$, should you appeciate this?
They've aquired a target group through deception, you people shouldn't be fine with this.

[tao2911]

Originally posted by Atomic Noodles:

Do their attacks do comparable damage to Version 1.00 if you don't upgrade the weapons? I imagine the game might be easier just because you guys have already ran through the game so you've already adjusted well into the enemy and reacting properly?

I have beaten the game 3 times now, last playthrough was halfway and then the nerf came (warrior). So, I agree that part of the ease in the current run is because I just know what to expect. I think had this been totally new it would have its difficulty.

That said, I am experienced at metroidvanias and overall it wouldn't be that big of a challenge in the current build (personally).

Because it came out super difficult, it is hard not to compare it to that standard. Some things definitely needed to be fixed in the old version, but again these were gameplay issues not boss life, damage, etc. It is sad to see them vacillate like they are doing and chopping this game up because there is great potential in it.

The current build for master does not deliver on the description in the game menu. Bosses especially should be WAY harder, like 40% harder, and enemies need to be at least 30% harder, imo. The old build made you feel like finishing an area was an epic thing, because of so many difficult battles. This is now just standard metroidvania breezing through content.

[Gearwar]

I assume the new mode is not the original difficulty? Just make a mode where you can play the original version. Yea it was tedious at times but the game is the game.

[BlocksterA]

I haven't beat any bosses yet since before the updates but I currently think the master mode is a little easy, but my main gripe is how this game handles saving. Imo absolute bs that you lose all your xp and how check points are so far away at some points. Took me an hour just to get to one thing in the floating module from the closest save point. But I did like how when it first released it required you to actually learn enemies moves. Now as a mage I can just jump around spamming. (This may be wrong)

Edit: In terms of how hard it was before the nerf I feel it is a little easier and the only thing that makes it a real challenge is how far you have to go between saves, which is fine. But losing everything when you die just makes me want to rush past the enemies because i've already fought them ten times and is a valid strategy. Also the secondary weapon system is useless though that may be because i've never bothered to upgrade em and so they do less dps than my attacks.

[tao2911]

Originally posted by BlocksterA:

I haven't beat any bosses yet since before the updates but I currently think the master mode is a little easy, but my main gripe is how this game handles saving. Imo absolute bs that you lose all your xp and how check points are so far away at some points. Took me an hour just to get to one thing in the floating module from the closest save point. But I did like how when it first released it required you to actually learn enemies moves. Now as a mage I can just jump around spamming. (This may be wrong)

Edit: In terms of how hard it was before the nerf I feel it is a little easier and the only thing that makes it a real challenge is how far you have to go between saves, which is fine. But losing everything when you die just makes me want to rush past the enemies because i've already fought them ten times and is a valid strategy. Also the secondary weapon system is useless though that may be because i've never bothered to upgrade em and so they do less dps than my attacks.

I'm personally neutral on the new checkpoint system. I think the old system was pretty unforgiving, and in a bad way because people hate having to restart. So I don't mind it. I rather have the difficulty in the actual combat rather than in the punishments for failure, if that makes sense. When you punish failure it is discouraging to the gameplay. When the combat is punishing, but failure is not so punishing, it encourages you to try more.

Secondary weapons are retarded currently. Only one worth anything is Dark Lance. Upgrade it 3 times and it does almost 100 damage a pop and just a straight shot. Other than that the only one I found useful was the fire orbs that orbit you (in the fire temple), forget the name. It's some wand or something, but either way. That one can be useful as well. I guess the ionic nail (In floating module) is a 3rd because of its bounce.

All that being said 3 weapons out of however many they have is pretty suck.

Not sure what they will do. I have an idea that I will post in the main forum about it.

[Space]

Bosses should absolutely NOT be 40% harder than where they are. They COULD be but they shouldn't. Not everyone is an experienced perfectionist at video games.

[tao2911]

Originally posted by SpaceButler:

Bosses should absolutely NOT be 40% harder than where they are. They COULD be but they shouldn't. Not everyone is an experienced perfectionist at video games.

Read the topic of the post. This is regarding "Master" - not the rest of the game. You have 2 casual levels and one "normal" level for average players. Having one level that is actually difficult and ridiculous, considering the existing disclaimer that they already have, is a fair request.

[AndyFox]

Im satisfied with master mode, its true that the enemies are still easier to kill them in the original game but that was more boring them challenging to begin with. They had to much hp, so even if you had mastered their patterns it took so long to deal with them that you could easily lose your patience and make unecessary mistakes, now they still have enough damage to punish mistakes harshly but if you have them figured out you can deal with them fast and move on. That feels fair and rewarding, regular enemies should feel just like obstacles not minibosses...

[AndyFox]

From my personal experience after a few hours of playing on masters, you definitely cant just facetank your way through the levels like previously, you need to actually pay attention to enemies otherwise they can easily kill you on two or three hits, unless you are willing to spend every cent you have on potions.

[tao2911]

Originally posted by uchihanderson03:

Im satisfied with master mode, its true that the enemies are still easier to kill them in the original game but that was more boring them challenging to begin with. They had to much hp, so even if you had mastered their patterns it took so long to deal with them that you could easily lose your patience and make unecessary mistakes, now they still have enough damage to punish mistakes harshly but if you have them figured out you can deal with them fast and move on. That feels fair and rewarding, regular enemies should feel just like obstacles not minibosses...

I think we have a different understanding or expectation of what the "Master" difficulty should be.

This game now has 4 difficulties. "Hard" mode is Warrior, which for many who are experienced is not really that hard. Either way, it gives you that smooth playing experience.

When games create "Nightmare" mode, usually it is unlockable only after you beat the game first on Hard mode. Nightmare mode is an OPTIONAL mode and not at all reflective of the majority of the population. "Enter at your own risk" (which they have in the current menu as a disclaimer) doesn't mean "This will be a smooth flowing experience and you won't get impatient."

The whole POINT of an ultimate difficulty level is that it will challenge your patience and be frustrating. It is supposed to be a grind. Why? Because it's OPTIONAL. Optional difficulty means you are bringing the pain upon yourself because you want to. That's what we want.

[AndyFox]

Originally posted by tao2911:

Originally posted by uchihanderson03:

Im satisfied with master mode, its true that the enemies are still easier to kill them in the original game but that was more boring them challenging to begin with. They had to much hp, so even if you had mastered their patterns it took so long to deal with them that you could easily lose your patience and make unecessary mistakes, now they still have enough damage to punish mistakes harshly but if you have them figured out you can deal with them fast and move on. That feels fair and rewarding, regular enemies should feel just like obstacles not minibosses...

I think we have a different understanding or expectation of what the "Master" difficulty should be.

This game now has 4 difficulties. "Hard" mode is Warrior, which for many who are experienced is not really that hard. Either way, it gives you that smooth playing experience.

When games create "Nightmare" mode, usually it is unlockable only after you beat the game first on Hard mode. Nightmare mode is an OPTIONAL mode and not at all reflective of the majority of the population. "Enter at your own risk" (which they have in the current menu as a disclaimer) doesn't mean "This will be a smooth flowing experience and you won't get impatient."

The whole POINT of an ultimate difficulty level is that it will challenge your patience and be frustrating. It is supposed to be a grind. Why? Because it's OPTIONAL. Optional difficulty means you are bringing the pain upon yourself because you want to. That's what we want.

Originally posted by tao2911:

Originally posted by uchihanderson03:

Im satisfied with master mode, its true that the enemies are still easier to kill them in the original game but that was more boring them challenging to begin with. They had to much hp, so even if you had mastered their patterns it took so long to deal with them that you could easily lose your patience and make unecessary mistakes, now they still have enough damage to punish mistakes harshly but if you have them figured out you can deal with them fast and move on. That feels fair and rewarding, regular enemies should feel just like obstacles not minibosses...

I think we have a different understanding or expectation of what the "Master" difficulty should be.

This game now has 4 difficulties. "Hard" mode is Warrior, which for many who are experienced is not really that hard. Either way, it gives you that smooth playing experience.

When games create "Nightmare" mode, usually it is unlockable only after you beat the game first on Hard mode. Nightmare mode is an OPTIONAL mode and not at all reflective of the majority of the population. "Enter at your own risk" (which they have in the current menu as a disclaimer) doesn't mean "This will be a smooth flowing experience and you won't get impatient."

The whole POINT of an ultimate difficulty level is that it will challenge your patience and be frustrating. It is supposed to be a grind. Why? Because it's OPTIONAL. Optional difficulty means you are bringing the pain upon yourself because you want to. That's what we want.

The previous interaction of the game despite being challenging did not respected the player time and effort. Going through the levels did not felt satisfying, it felt like a chore. Now its still challenging but not beyond the point where it stops being enjoyable. Even in a hard game ppl dont want to be feeling miserable, they wanna have fun. If thats not your case them im sorry but im happy that devs are not balancing the game around opinions that go in that direction.