Bug/Bad Balancing? => Impossible to defeat Legion?

[Marc1984]

Is it possible that there is a bug with Patch 1.1 that prevents to defeat Legion?

I am talking about Legion's second form.

I have collected all 666 Cadeaux and all 120 Dark Souls.

Also all bosses before were easy.

Even after 999 bullets, Legion is still alive.

What is going on?

[Marc1984]

I have defeated him now.

It tooks an extreme amount of bullets (even with two Violators and 999 bullets) to defeat him.

=> Very bad balancing.

Was it also that bad in the original Shadow Man?

@Nightdive Studios:

Generally, i am enjoying your Remaster versions very much (as i also did with Shadow Man), but this last boss fight is out of balance by far.

Could you fix it?

[Donut Steel]

On the N64, I using all 999 Violator ammo didn't beat him back in the day. It was always a badly balanced and designed boss-fight, which has no interesting dynamic or mechanics: it's literally just a bullet-sponge and avoiding damage from him.

[WMJ]

You do realise that the last shot needs to be from the shadow gun to take his soul/life force?

I think it used to be around 550 - 600 or so Violator ammo and then a shadow gun shot. In the recent patch they've stated that Legion is a bit tougher so it might be a bit higher now.

[Berzerk2k2]

I agree that this fight is now too hard.

The main reason for this is that besides blocking his projectiles with the Enseigne there is not really another way to avoid getting hit and since you're often getting hit by more than one projectile at the same time your hp goes down really fast.

Also 999 ammo + extra ammo in the boss arena for the Violator(s) should be enough to kill him. Hitting him with the Shadow Gun is very hard due to Legion changing position a lot.

Because he changes his position a lot it's hard to actually keep the focus on him while trying to avoid damage from the purple projectiles too. The general movement speed is way too slow to avoid being hit. I was only able to dodge some of the purple projectiles through jumping forward and sideways like a maniac. Unfortunately while doing this keeping focus on Legion was impossible since you can't move the camera left or right during jumping in any direction.

[Donut Steel]

Originally posted by WMJ:

You do realise that the last shot needs to be from the shadow gun to take his soul/life force?

I think it used to be around 550 - 600 or so Violator ammo and then a shadow gun shot. In the recent patch they've stated that Legion is a bit tougher so it might be a bit higher now.

This is a change from the N64 version then, because back then I could make the final hit with anything, be it the violator, voodoo with asson, Liveside weapons(using secrets option for it), and they would still work.

I vaguely recall(but not sure) that in his human form, you need to use the shadowgun after stunning him with other weapons; same as with the Five, then the next phase against his trueform begins. Against his trueform, it was just a pure test of delivering and avoiding damage.

[Macario]

Originally posted by Lex Looper:

On the N64, I using all 999 Violator ammo didn't beat him back in the day. It was always a badly balanced and designed boss-fight, which has no interesting dynamic or mechanics: it's literally just a bullet-sponge and avoiding damage from him.

Lol, I disagree, in the original version of the game it was decently challenging, really all you had to do was run and shoot him when he is stop moving. In the previous Legion Patch it was absurdly easy and just a joke, now they increased their difficulty which is appreciated, but apparently now it is TOO difficult, I think if they slow down the "balls" and a little their life would be fine, is the final boss MUST be difficult.

[Berzerk2k2]

I just managed to beat Legions final form by jumping right, adjusting the cam to see him, jumping right, etc. etc. etc. (kinda circle jumping around him) and unloading all Violator ammo I had available into him.

Once I had no ammo left I switched to Enseigne and Shadow Gun and damaged him with a few fully charged shots while blocking his purple stuff and then he finally died. So it's doable but I would guess the average gamer would have a frustrating time with this boss the way it currently is. Future changes to balance this fight more are definitely welcome.

[Macario]

Originally posted by Berzerk2k2:

I just managed to beat Legions final form by jumping right, adjusting the cam to see him, jumping right, etc. etc. etc. (kinda circle jumping around him) and unloading all Violator ammo I had available into him.

Once I had no ammo left I switched to Enseigne and Shadow Gun and damaged him with a few fully charged shots while blocking his purple stuff and then he finally died. So it's doable but I would guess the average gamer would have a frustrating time with this boss the way it currently is. Future changes to balance this fight more are definitely welcome.

Yeah, I just hope it's not as absurdly easy as it was before the patch.

[Macario]

Lol, to you it seems too difficult because the boss now asks you to do something other than just walk to the right slowly to win.

[Citronvand]

I haven't fought him in this version but I much rather have a difficult final boss than the opposite.

[Macario]

Originally posted by Citronvand:

I haven't fought him in this version but I much rather have a difficult final boss than the opposite.

Me too, if they are going to give him nerfs I hope it continues to be somewhat challenging, and not a weakling who dies in 10 seconds.

[Donut Steel]

Originally posted by Macaco:

Originally posted by Lex Looper:

On the N64, I using all 999 Violator ammo didn't beat him back in the day. It was always a badly balanced and designed boss-fight, which has no interesting dynamic or mechanics: it's literally just a bullet-sponge and avoiding damage from him.

Lol, I disagree, in the original version of the game it was decently challenging, really all you had to do was run and shoot him when he is stop moving. In the previous Legion Patch it was absurdly easy and just a joke, now they increased their difficulty which is appreciated, but apparently now it is TOO difficult, I think if they slow down the "balls" and a little their life would be fine, is the final boss MUST be difficult.

"I disagree"

*Proceeds to describe the fight more or less how I did*

[Macario]

Originally posted by Lex Looper:

Originally posted by Macaco:

Lol, I disagree, in the original version of the game it was decently challenging, really all you had to do was run and shoot him when he is stop moving. In the previous Legion Patch it was absurdly easy and just a joke, now they increased their difficulty which is appreciated, but apparently now it is TOO difficult, I think if they slow down the "balls" and a little their life would be fine, is the final boss MUST be difficult.

"I disagree"

*Proceeds to describe the fight more or less how I did*

I disagree that it was a poorly designed and poorly balanced boss, it was a functional final boss (It wasn't super difficult but it was definitely the hardest boss in the game, which made it a very decent final boss).

[Marc1984]

Originally posted by WMJ:

You do realise that the last shot needs to be from the shadow gun to take his soul/life force?

I think it used to be around 550 - 600 or so Violator ammo and then a shadow gun shot. In the recent patch they've stated that Legion is a bit tougher so it might be a bit higher now.

Hi WMJ,

i can confirm that it is possible in this version (1.1) to defeat Legions second form without the shadow gun.

Best regards,
Marc

[Marc1984]

Hi all,

first of all, thank you very much for your responses.

I also appreciate it when a last boss is not too easy, but it seems that with the latest Patch 1.1, it is too difficult.

Nightdive Studios should rebalance it again, for example:

If the difficulty before Patch 1.1 was, let me estimate, 20 of 100, it is now at 90-100 of 100 and also too far away from the general difficulty of the other bosses/the game itself.

I really enjoyed the game, but this last boss fight noticeably damaged the whole experience and it should be possible to find a better balance for it, for example 70 of 100.

For winning it, i also used both Violators, jumped down to the bottom of the area and side-jumped around the boss to avoid his projectiles the whole time.

This way, it was possible to defeat him, but it should be rebalanced again.

In my opinion, it would be perfect if it would be possible to defeat him with a weapon in one hand and the shield in the other hand, because it would require some sort of skill (timining to block his attacks), but right now with Patch 1.1, it is not possible.

Thank you in advance and best regards,
Marc