....Is it really luck?

[King of Sorrow]

I'm missing something here. Is every run but the absolute best unwinnable? Like..80% of runs just don't work out since the first few symbols added have NO synergy, and if I try to build a synergy, there's NO followup (IE: Basic stuff like cultists, crabs, or cheese and mice)

I hear there's unlockables too, and as someone just starting - the 'item pool' is just trash already. If there were ways to filter out -some- of the things, I could see it. How it is though? You're just burning runs until you get 7 runs (IN A ROW!?!?!?!) won to see the rest in terms of new content.

[JudgeTy]

IMO, you should start wide (don't pigeon hole what you are trying to get) then pivot when you get rarer certain objects. (side items, reel items). I would never base my run on the first 15 spins. Side bar items and higher rarity items, synergy should be your pivot.

[Drecon]

No, you can actually get better at this game by practice. Even though the name implies it's just luck, there's a lot of skill involved.

That said, it's possible that there are unwinnable runs. I'm not 100% yet on that.

[Draken]

I have similar problems getting a working build together.
At the start I try to get good value symbols or symbols that are removed by other common symbols.
Then I take a look at the items I get and the first rarer symbols and try to build some synergy with it.

While I manage to make the first few payments with that I usually end up not being able to get a synergy to work. Which then leads to not making the later payments.

In my opinion there are just too much symbols and items in the game to reliably get a good synergy together. At least without a lot more skill than I am able to muster with the game.

I don't actually play all that much anymore, just a few times each day, as I almost always loose and it's just no fun anymore.

When I first started the game a few updates ago I definetly had a far higher win rate.

[thelefthorse]

As Drecon said, keep playing and you will get better--much, much better. When I first began playing the game, I struggled to win 20% on what is now called Floor 1 (it was the only floor at the time). Now, I have to play on Floor 15 to even have it be fun/challenging--that has less to do with luck (although luck is a factor, no doubt), but rather that I've begun to get a solid handle on what interactions are most likely to succeed and which aren't.

If you're really struggling, read some of the posts on here by some great players. I think it was dholland who mentioned, casually, in another thread, that on the higher floors (I am paraphrasing here, so apologies if this isn't completely accurate) he always goes for the early 3-die when it's presented to him. That blew my mind when I read it, as I considered the 3-die a completely useless symbol. Huh, I thought, okay.

Well, turns out he was onto something, as taking an early 3-die turns out to be a pretty decent strategy. The 3-die is one of the only common items you can get offered from the very first spin that can earn 3 coins per spin (theoretically, obviously). Those 3-die changed my game and got me looking at other symbols in a completely new way.

So hang in there, keep an open mind, keep trying new symbols you haven't used before and have fun.


EDIT: Huge Point!!! You don't have to beat the Floor levels in a row! The game keeps your floor progress between runs. So beat floor 1, then you can take 100 runs to beat floor 2, before moving on to floor 3, etc.

ALSO, the higher floors don't unlock any symbols. All symbols and items are available from your very first spin (and all symbols and items persist through all floors--none go away as you go up). The only thing you unlock later are the "Essences" which were just added to the game last week, and are not necessary to win (although they do, in my opinion, make winning much easier).

[mathcookie17]

Originally posted by thelefthorse:

ALSO, the higher floors don't unlock any symbols. All symbols and items are available from your very first spin (and all symbols and items persist through all floors--none go away as you go up). The only thing you unlock later are the "Essences" which were just added to the game last week, and are not necessary to win (although they do, in my opinion, make winning much easier).

Technically that’s not correct, as the symbols and items related to Essences (Essence Capsule, Dishwasher, Popsicle) don’t unlock until you unlock Essences, but the general point you’re trying to make still holds.

[Aquillion]

No, floor 1 should be very reliably winnable. Occasionally you might get completely screwed over, but it doesn't happen often.

Some general tips.

1. Early on you want to fill out your blank spots as fast as possible, focusing on things that are easy to get synergies for, symbols that are easy to remove later, and symbols that remove other symbols (since that means you can then add the things they remove.) This keeps your wheel from getting filled up with commons.

2. Once you're out of empty space, don't add stuff carelessly - skip whenever the offered symbols aren't an improvement or don't offer any useful synergies. It's important to avoid going further over 20 when possible, since that makes it harder to get the symbols you want. (Of course, you should still grab any really good symbols.) Likewise, you usually want to use removals as soon as you get them.

3. Some things offer synergies with a wide range of other symbols. Early on, when you're not sure what you're going for, try to grab those.

4. While you should try and build synergies (you will need them eventually), it's inevitable that you will get some symbols and items that don't fit your build.

5. It's important to be flexible, especially early on, and not force a build you're not getting the stuff for. If you get offered a particularly good symbol or item for a different build, consider switching tracks or running both at once.

Also, you shouldn't expect too much synergy just from the first few symbols. (But keep in mind that the symbols you start with do have some synergy potential already - eg. milk will work with your cat, bees will work with your flower.)

I hear there's unlockables too, and as someone just starting - the 'item pool' is just trash already.

The main unlockable is Essences, which actually just make the game easier.

You don't need to win seven games in a row to unlock them, just seven total.

[Draken]

I know about tips 1,2,3,4 and 5 and use them.
I got stuck at floor 6 for the last few months. Probably because the game just isn't much fun for me and I'm playing only a little.

Just tried floor 1 again. Like I said, early game isn't too difficult. Yes, dices are quite good. Rabbits, Dwarfs or Cats are also nice as they have quite a bit synergy.
So I managed to get three dwarfs, fed a toddler a lot of candy, and got lucky with an early pirate. But then it just petered out.
After I got the pirate to 9 I didn't get anymore items for him to eat. I even got an anti-synergy with lockpicks from an item capsule.
I had three dwarfs, and happy hour as my second item, but I only got 4 beers and one wine up until I couldn't make the 500 payment.
So my end board was 3 dwarfs, 1 pirate, 1 wildcard a bartender and a comedian (with dark humor item). The rest was a random assortment of the highest payout symbols and items and a few feeder symbols.

The run probably was winnable as there was a clear sky, but I only saw it after I had already passed up two suns and had no flowers on the board.

The second game I won because I got three early coals as well as a bee hive as my first rare when I already had 4 bees on the board.

I don't know if I'm not skillful enough, using the wrong strategies or just unlucky. But my winrate felt a lot higher a few patches ago.
I also don't really have as much fun playing as before. Just my experience.

I didn't know that the essences could be unlocked with floor 1. I thought they got unlocked on higher floors as I had stopped following the game when they got added. Maybe I have a go at unlocking them and take a look if the game gets more enjoyable with them.

[thelefthorse]

So, I'd be curious for some of the 'expert' players to chime in here, but before you have unlocked Essences, which can create some huge synergies and bonuses, I would never take 3 dwarves. I wouldn't take more than one, unless I absolutely had to take a symbol and neither of the other two options were remotely viable.

The problem with taking 3 dwarves is you're really locking yourself into needing beer/wine; if you don't get those, you're sol. I know it's easier said than done, but I try not to go all-in on the early common consumers (dwarves, toddlers, etc.). Take one and, if you're lucky, you'll get some stuff to feed it, but you don't want your entire early game success to depend on getting what one symbol needs.

That's my thinking, as far as it goes. As I said, I'd be curious to hear what a few of the folks who've put a lot more time and energy into the game than I have think. If you haven't already, check out the "Favorite Runs" thread. A few guys have posted a fair amount of information about strategy over there, and reading those has helped me a lot. (Just be careful to distinguish between strategies pre-essences and strategies with-essences, as they do change the game significantly.)

[HeraldOfOpera]

Considering that the premise of the game is paying your rent via literal slot machine, the only way your topic title would make sense is if you were proposing exactly the opposite of what you actually were.

[JudgeTy]

I have about 20 hours in the game and beat floor 15 about once a night before I go to sleep.

Op items: anything that destroys things without you having to make the combo. IE lockpick, Urn breaker to make spirits, to a lesser extent, goldfish bowl, egg cartons.

The first few spins are just about finding things that make at least 2 gold per spin. Owls, Anchors, Bubbles, etc. Payout destroy items lockbox, milk, void fruit/rock, money capsule, are great. 1 coal is fine too, if you find 2-3 payout items, you can grab more coal.

You don't just keep adding items especially 1 value items.

Eventually the game is about multiplier essences and rarity combos. Like gems/rocks with x4 x8 before synergy combo.

A great start for floor 15 is birds with birdhouse, coal with engineer + rock payout items, suns and flowers, candy pinata child with halloween pumpkin basket, urns with urn breaker, lockboxes with lockpick.

Capsules that take money, thieves, and negative taking items, should be limited unless you have big payouts from earlier, even with tax evasion, these are not worth taking usually.

I even managed to get crabs to work on floor 15. I had 4 crabs 3 cats, 3 shiny rocks, 4 cherries. I had the 3 match pepper, and some other OP synergies.

I almost always delete the coin first, then the pearl, then the flower, then the cherry.

[Draken]

Originally posted by thelefthorse:

The problem with taking 3 dwarves is you're really locking yourself into needing beer/wine; if you don't get those, you're sol. I know it's easier said than done, but I try not to go all-in on the early common consumers (dwarves, toddlers, etc.). Take one and, if you're lucky, you'll get some stuff to feed it, but you don't want your entire early game success to depend on getting what one symbol needs.

Oh, I agree with taking only one of each. I got the first dwarf for that reason. The second dwarf was a 'the other symbols are worse and I have happy hour'. And the last one I got because I had a pepper that got me gold for three of the same symbols as well as said happy hour and an early bar tender.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with the start of the run. But when it gets to the part of turning the board into a synergy with good multipliers it often just doesn't work too well for me. Especially in the higher floors. I played 4 games on floor 1 today and I won 2 and lost 2. And the only difference was whether or not I was getting the required synergy items or symbols. The worst is when your symbols and items are all over the place and you have no idea where to start. Or when you have the critical component required for a good synergy, but then the symbols just refuse to show up at all.

[Elkian Lionblood]

The big problem that I see is that there's a lot of Symbols, but few Symbols have synergy with/effect on more than a few other Symbols. And it's both hard to predict and hard to control what you'll see (I take care picking up Symbols that haven't appeared at least once or even twice before, if they need buddies). The same goes for Items, which can have absolutely nothing to do with any Symbols you pick up for the entire game.

The game having some kind of Symbol "packs" or "families" that you can pick from (like Lunchbox and Adoption Papers, but moreso), or similarly themed runs, would help a lot. Removing Symbols seems difficult at this stage, so it's that or increasing Synergy or even having Items and Symbols like, increase the likelihood of a related counterpart down the line.

[Aquillion]

I sort of wish the game had some way to output a summary of your game (tracking adds, removes, item and symbol selection, rerolls, etc - other key events.) Posting that here would make it easier to figure out what people are doing wrong so we could give better advice about how to improve.