Across the Obelisk
Uranium51 Apr 1, 2023 @ 3:21am
Yogger's left trait line seems pretty weak?
[Obvious spoilers ahead]

So, the left line caters to a damage build, while the right caters to a healing/vitality build.

Level 2:
Pillage (left) is a strong card that allows you to steal 2 auras 2 times.
Sausage Factory (right) is a slightly better Vitalize (2 vitality/3 regen, compared to Vitalize's 1v/5r).

Level 3:
Big bad wolf (left) gives 1% damage increase for every 3 hp above 100hp. This feels like a straight up worse version of Sylvie or Regi, who can easily double the damage of a card with 2 or 3 stacks of sharp/bless.
On the other hand, Dinner is Ready (right) gives each hero a meat card (2 vitality) each turn, which is quite good.

Level 4:
Feed the Rich (left) recovers 25% of your HP, and deals 0.3x your hp as slashing damage to a minion. Think about it, if you have 900 dust sitting around, will you ever craft demolishing blow? Probably not, as it is rather lackluster.
Give to the Poor (right) grants a +1 vitality enhancement, and gives all heroes 8 block + 8 shield + 3 regen with 4 uses. That's guaranteed 256 damage mitigation. If you max out block perks, which is a common choice for tanks, the number increases to 400, for 1 mana.

Level 5:
Gluttony (left) gives Yogger 1 energy/2 vitality for each food, max 2 per turn. If you stick to the left tree, there is not much food at all. Max 3 or 4 per battle. Unless you really luck out on the new epic item, which provides 1 food each turn. Again, that just shows how good Dinner is Ready is.
Three Star Chef. It gives each meat card an additional energize. Your expected gain is 4 energy each turn, compared to Gluttony's 4 per battle...?

Just some theory crafting, but I personally don't see how his left tree will work on higher madness, other than for the lolz.
Last edited by Uranium51; Apr 1, 2023 @ 3:27am
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
Taiyo Apr 1, 2023 @ 9:10am 
I've found that the right side of the tree, even if it's food focused, can still help Yogger do a lot of damage.

Premium Meat (I imagine Gourmet Meat as well) increases positive auras by 25%. That includes Bless, Vigor, Fury, Regeneration, Sharp and so on. Simply put, just throw all Premium/Gourmet Meat on Yogger when you get them and his buffs will very quickly get out of control. With Dinner is Ready, Three Star Chef and Butcher's Block he will always have a ton of Gourmet Meat to use and can typically use multiple per turn.

The only thing I would take from the left side is Pillage. Rob allows you to steal 2 auras, yes, but it also allows you to steal auras from your allies. For instance, let's say that your healer has a few Bless stacks on them. They don't need those Bless stacks in the current situation.

Yoink!

You now have the Bless stacks.

As I have mentioned earlier with Premium/Gourment Meat, it can help Yogger very quickly get out of control with his buffs.

The left side honestly needs some love. There's just practically no reason to take any of the left side other than Pillage.
Last edited by Taiyo; Apr 1, 2023 @ 9:30am
Tsuru Apr 1, 2023 @ 4:56pm 
Built Grukli to stack fury and vitality. Built sylvie to stack sharp.

had yogger go last, and rob grukli and sylvie of their buffs after they used them on their turn, proceeded to destroy all the enemies with repeat attacks and used meat to further increase the stacks he stole from them.
Fendelphi Apr 1, 2023 @ 11:32pm 
You just need to be a bit more innovative with your build.

At level 1, without Vitality stacks, Yogger can have 150 health. This can be increased with level ups and items, so that by level 3(Big Bad Wolf), you start combat with a permanent +25% damage or more. And when you start to add additional health from Vitality, it gets stronger and stronger(for every 3 Vitality stacks, you get +8% extra damage, if you have taken the correct Vitality perk).

A Titan Fall(B upgrade) deals your Health in damage. With 700 health(vitality) and Big Bad Wolf, that means a base damage of 2100, before any other modifiers.

I have seen a Yogger build that ends up with 700+ health(+200% damage) and dealing over 2000 damage to the last boss with Gorge(0.3 x health), due to various other modifiers.
This was done with a full "left" build.

You are comparing % increases with flat increases.
Hivemind Apr 2, 2023 @ 12:39am 
Yeah, the left side is lacklustre besides Pillage. Compares very poorly to the right in every way, whether for damage, mitigation, or utility. His Innate trait Butcher is also pretty mediocre, though. Not as bad as some other characters' Innates (Bree, Magnus), but not something that breaks him into certain builds or combos (Sylvie, Gustav, all the healers, etc.), either. In fact, he kind of lacks any particular direction to specialise in for his deck, besides casually being a fairly durable tank/off-sustainer/buff-accelerator from his right tree. While the two trees definitely suggest two unique niches and deckbuilds envisioned for him, only the right one really works. It's a bit of a disappointment, with him as the first new DLC character.

I've been thinking a lot during my runs with him on what changes might make the left side better while staying in theme. Big Bad Wolf would be okay if it wasn't mutually exclusive with Dinner is Ready. As it is, there isn't a way to reliably ramp up his HP to make BBW useful, besides maybe building an entire group around vitality stacking (still probably not viable at high madness). Gluttony would be decent if it took BBW's spot and didn't have its 2/turn proc limit; food cards are uncommon enough for Yogger's deck, even with DiR, that the restriction is kind of nonsensical. Big Bad Wolf could maybe be okay as a level 5 trait with 1% damage per 1 hp above 100 instead of the per 3 hp it's at now. Still not as good as Three Star Chef with DiR, I think, but there's a funny direct damage potential there to mess around with on the last zone if you build a party around it.

Alternatively, giving Butcher and level 3 Big Bad Wolf a permanent HP gain mechanic could work. 1 max HP per killed enemy on Butcher, with BBW also getting an additional 1 max HP gain per. At 20-30 enemies per zone, a Yogger could potentially reach the last boss with an extra 150-200 max HP, providing a respectable damage bonus from Big Bad Wolf while being enough of a bag of hit points to feasibly stand on the frontline at high madness. Still not as much HP as a buff-ramping right-tree Yogger would have after a few turns, but it would be respectable. Gluttony could have more vit and energy gain per proc if it stayed at level 5 in this set-up, perhaps.
I have done a complete Left side build multiple times with Fire modifiers on his attacks, converting all damage to fire. With Cornelius who makes ALOT of burn stacks, which reduces fire resistance and Yogger / Maluka to Vitality buff him, he get immense power damage when the enemy has -95% reduces fire resistance, Yogger with full Powerful, and about 40 Fury stacks, and the Big Bad Wolf bonus, I can reach about 2k per hit with 3 cost items on turn 2, while being a tank.

I would even say that Give to the Poor (right) is somewhat weird to use, especially if your argument is that you dont get that many food items, than having 4 charges is hard to use up, even Heiners Steel Forge is better as it only requires him to get hit, to shield his entire team. Ofcourse its not as strong, but its far easier to trigger and requires one card, not the card itself and 4 other food cards which can be hard to come by.
As for Gluttony (left) I believe its really powerful, as you only need to find 2 food items and they give card draw from the food itself, and energy which can be used to trigger more card draw or even attacks, plus the Vitality bonus boosts his survival and damage.
Three Star Chef is awesome, as it gives Gourmet meat each time you receive a meat, but the only difference between Gourmet and normal Premium is 1 energy.
Which is not much when compared to Gluttony which also trigger the meat itself among its own bonus.
Last edited by The Odd Peculiar™; Apr 2, 2023 @ 3:10am
el Darkness Apr 5, 2023 @ 1:11pm 
I also tested left talent tree for him, while it was low difficulty (M2 + 4 additional modifiers, most of them did not increase difficulty) I managed to kill Twins in 1 round, one of them died with single hit (purple Titan Fall did 2294 dmg). So yeah, I think his left Talent tree is lacking, he did not kill them with a single card. :P

By the way, I was playing on limited power, so max stacks for Vitality was 50, he had 625 HP. If anyone would like to attemp the same thing, I was using:
Bree for Vitality, Powerfull, Sharp and if possible for some Vitality.
Malukah for some Vitality, a littke Bless and also Vitality
Gustav for some Vitality, Speed manipulation, Sharp and a little Vitality

I am sure better team and/or Decks are possible. I took Titan Fall just for fun because I was running Slashing dmg Yogger, not Blunt dmg.
Fish are Friends Apr 10, 2023 @ 2:38am 
Left side can be pretty good if you're running Gustav or a different bard scout (why though) for vitality stacking. Act 4 can be troublesome since enemies and the last boss mess with your stacks. I played yogger as kind of a thicker grukli with more support potential. Berserk doesn't build up as fast, but yogger was overall healthier and made up some of the damage loss with big bad wolf.

I had success at M4 (no modifiers) with this slash comp:
1 Tank andrin; just spam block and stack mark with a few sharp/dispel songs to cycle into
2 DPS yogger; berserk/bleed stack with a super lucky mirror of kassandra (can clone feed the rich and/or gorge for infinite food+dumb damage) near the end
3 Mostly support gustav; ballad of conquest+vitalizing serenade spam with a bit of insane stacking for nezglekt synergy
4 Damage/utility nezglekt; insane stacking with gustav, but mostly there for anthem of hope/mass dispel which any healer can do

I feel like the only essential things for left side yogger are gustav and a tank for position 1.
Hivemind Apr 26, 2023 @ 6:54pm 
I agree there's some really strong damage potential unlocked with left side, given the right character pick synergy and certain item/card drops. After some experimentation, I'd agree that buffs should be conservative -- it's easy to see how Yogger would outpace other offensive warriors by default from left-side if he did get too much in terms of extra health.

But the right side traits of the tree, or more specifically Dinner is Ready and Three Star Chef, are still just much more reliable while also providing a lot of sustain, card draw, energy, and the unique mechanic of buff amplification (and by extension from this, also a lot of damage). Especially at high madness, I can't agree that Big Bad Wolf and Gluttony would ever be preferable outside of "just-for-fun" gimmick builds. Which, to be fair, more than a few characters in this game suffer from with their trait trees. But still. It's frustrating in Yogger's case that the right passives are straight up better than the left passives for damage outside of a comp specifically designed to stack vit on yogger, and at everything else besides damage too.
Croustifiak Apr 27, 2023 @ 5:40am 
It's feel more like right side is a bit overtuned imo.

Left side is nice on its own for one or two choice but right side usually serve as an engine for Yogger.

Level 2 give you buff snatch wich can be very helpfull

Level 3 's big bad wolf is interesting... But the right choice is a no brainer considering how much yogger's utility revolve around meat and buff.

Level 4 is the most balanced choice imo, you either get a powerfull utility tool or a garanted one hit kill if you stack hp.

Level 5 left is playable on particular set up, but right side is far more easy to exploit and overall better.
Zylo the Wolfbane Apr 27, 2023 @ 11:53am 
Big Bad Wolf is a lot more potent than people seem to think it is. Maybe with Restricted Power it's a bit worse, but even then the damage boost you can get from it can get very big, very fast with how easily you can stack up vitality with a decent support. A Gustav, Malukah, or Bree support for Yogger to stack up Vitality on him leads to some big consistent damage boosts, and then you can run the usual repeat attacks and Fury cards that Grukli would run. Pillage can be great for stealing other Vitality off your own heroes, or peeling off things like Evasion from your enemies (Especially on higher Madness levels where some enemies can end up with 3-4 Evasion stacks.) and then you get to Feed the Rich and Gorge, which just hits like an absolute train with Big Bad Wolf when you're stacked up. I'd say Yogger wants a specific support more than most DPS characters, since Vitality stacking is super important for him, but with how the Vitality stacking boosts both your durability AND your power, Yogger becomes a very powerful damage dealer, AND a bulky tank just due to how much HP he ends up with, making your DPS extremely durable on their own.

He can't stack as much Fury as Grukli can of course, but he also still provides other party utility with things like Aura stealing to deal with dangerous enemy buffs, and having more self-healing to make him more self-sufficient thanks to Feed the Rich. Also, you say you'd never craft a Demolishing Blow, but Yogger is legit one of the few characters who you DO want to do that with. It double scales on your HP thanks to its innate HP scaling AND your Big Bad Wolf scaling, meaning you double-dip your buffs with Vitality.

Personally, I rather like DPS Yogger. His support set IS much stronger, but that's mostly due to Gourmet Meat being absolutely screwed up levels of powerful, but that doesn't mean his DPS build is worthless.
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Date Posted: Apr 1, 2023 @ 3:21am
Posts: 10