The new launcher and why the outrage is misplaced.

[The Odd Peculiar™]

As far as I understand, its not the devs of Across the Obelisk which decided the game needed a launcher which of right now, is exclusive to only that game.
For those who claim its just to steal personal data, who cares.
If you have ANY social media platform or a family member who does and that family member got your phonenumber, they got your data. Got a google/youtube account? Then people have your data. The only data they would be able to collect would be player analytical since your data is already out there on the market.
The only reason I raged about this launcher is because it clearly not tested at all as it crashed for so many of the community.
Some four letter words can be uttered if you don't have a paradox account and have to spent time setting that up just to play a game which didn't need it before or if they filled the launcher with salebanners.

[Midnight]

If you are incapable of understanding something that is fine. The main reason people were upset by it, is not because it takes data like most social media platforms. It's because people have purchased the game over a year ago, played it for over a year, then, without warning, added a client launcher. The launcher does not add or enhance anything in anyway, and is actually a detriment. This launcher was placed without request from anyone other then the companies involved in trying to make money off of it.

So imagine having something that wasn't broke, and trying to fix it, while asking people for more information from their computers then they already didn't want to give. Combine all that with lack of discussion or a sense of direction, people are going to be upset.

I would never say outrage is misplaced, when you make an agreement or a contract, and the other side reneges, changes, or outright ignores the contract, whether it was a written contract or implied. People will feel slighted by it.

Ohh, and then throw in the fact it delays starting time of the game, crashes the game, causes issues with the game, and does not help the game at all.

Take all that for the grain of salt it is worth. Have a nice day.

[BillyBozarth]

Originally posted by The Odd Peculiar™:

....For those who claim its just to steal personal data, who cares.....

Obviously those who make that claim care. Just because you dont care does not invalidate their legitimate grievances.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by BillyBozarth:

Originally posted by The Odd Peculiar™:

....For those who claim its just to steal personal data, who cares.....

Obviously those who make that claim care. Just because you dont care does not invalidate their legitimate grievances.

The "claim to care" is misplaced though.
If you dont want companies to access "your data", drop Steam, Youtube, Facebook and pretty much every other social media. Because they all provide data to companies.
In that aspect, the Paragon launcher changes nothing.

Originally posted by Midnight:

If you are incapable of understanding something that is fine. The main reason people were upset by it, is not because it takes data like most social media platforms. It's because people have purchased the game over a year ago, played it for over a year, then, without warning, added a client launcher. The launcher does not add or enhance anything in anyway, and is actually a detriment. This launcher was placed without request from anyone other then the companies involved in trying to make money off of it.

So imagine having something that wasn't broke, and trying to fix it, while asking people for more information from their computers then they already didn't want to give. Combine all that with lack of discussion or a sense of direction, people are going to be upset.

I would never say outrage is misplaced, when you make an agreement or a contract, and the other side reneges, changes, or outright ignores the contract, whether it was a written contract or implied. People will feel slighted by it.

Ohh, and then throw in the fact it delays starting time of the game, crashes the game, causes issues with the game, and does not help the game at all.

Take all that for the grain of salt it is worth. Have a nice day.

Where in the TOS or EULA does it claim that the product will always remain the same as you bought it?

In fact, by its very nature, a game can change as it is developed or content is added. The game I bought years havent been "the same" for a long time now. Cards have changed, characters have been changed or added. New locations and items, balance tweaks.
So what you are saying is that "change is good, as long as I enjoy those changes". But as soon as a change is not to your liking, it is suddenly a breach on contract?

Also, if you do not want to use the Launcher, roll back to the previous version. Then you can have the exact experience you paid for, with no launcher.

[Fendelphi]

Also, dislike the launcher all you want, but at least do it for the right reasons.

[BillyBozarth]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Originally posted by BillyBozarth:

Obviously those who make that claim care. Just because you dont care does not invalidate their legitimate grievances.

The "claim to care" is misplaced though.
If you dont want companies to access "your data", drop Steam, Youtube, Facebook and pretty much every other social media. Because they all provide data to companies.
In that aspect, the Paragon launcher changes nothing.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy. It is a form of dishonest rhetoric used to confuse the truth and distract from meaningful discourse.

No one gave permission to the harvesting and use of this data when they made the initial purchase of the game. Paradox asking for additional compensation and breaking a previously purchased product effectively holding it hostage unless the original consumer agrees to give additional compensation is not only morally wrong but also in many jurisdictions illegal.

Independent contracts made by consumers with other corporations, persons, entities ect. have no bearing on the morality or legality of this instance.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by BillyBozarth:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

The "claim to care" is misplaced though.
If you dont want companies to access "your data", drop Steam, Youtube, Facebook and pretty much every other social media. Because they all provide data to companies.
In that aspect, the Paragon launcher changes nothing.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy. It is a form of dishonest rhetoric used to confuse the truth and distract from meaningful discourse.

No one gave permission to the harvesting and use of this data when they made the initial purchase of the game. Paradox asking for additional compensation and breaking a previously purchased product effectively holding it hostage unless the original consumer agrees to give additional compensation is not only morally wrong but also in many jurisdictions illegal.

Independent contracts made by consumers with other corporations, persons, entities ect. have no bearing on the morality or legality of this instance.

What fallacy?

Your "data" has already been taken, long before you use the Paradox Launcher. You agree to it when you install Steam, make an account for Facebook or Youtube, or most other social media platforms. Just visiting most websites requires you to accept the use(and potential trade) of data. That is how Facebook/google sends you adds of a certain type, if you have recently visited sites of a similar theme.

So take off the tin-foil hat. You are already in the net(willing or otherwise).
Hate the launcher for having to create an additional account. Sure.
Hate the launcher for the extra steps/clicks it requires to launch the game. Sure.
Hate the launcher for any bugs or issues it might create(like what happened to a lot of people). Totally.

But that is about all, really.

Edit: Also, collecting data(for analytics, stuff like how often do you use the launcher, how long are your sessions, which games do you play) is not the same as selling data to a third party/strangers. Read up on the legal notices.
If Paradox was truly selling your personal data to strangers, they would be hit by a massive fine that they would not recover from.
No company would take such risks.

[Midnight]

It's almost like, when I wrote in about contracts being implied, you ignored it to go for the written thing. The entire point of my statement was moral outrage, and why the anger would not be "misplaced."

Again, I was not complaining about the data collected, I already know the different work around methods to get past it. It's almost like you read about three sentences of what I wrote to make your argument, instead of reading in context. It's weird.

It was never written in TOS or EUA about a third party taking part of the company to make its own separate launcher for its personal use. You are absolutely correct. The argument is not over the data. It's the morality of it, after the fact, without warning. As you said, its about the inconveniences, and the other issues added for no purpose that benefits us as the consumer.

Of course a game changes over time. Tell me, what was the benefit of this launcher for this game? As opposed to say hero's, card types, or roles, damage types, or utility. What has the launcher done for us, other then the added steps and breaking the game for some people. Again, if it aint broke, don't fix it.

It's almost like you are making the same argument as me, however are opposing me at the same time.

[Razzle]

before updating the game i just wanna know
do i need to make an account for this launcher or is it like the Bg3/DOS2 one where it just exists

[The Odd Peculiar™]

Originally posted by Midnight:

The entire point of my statement was moral outrage, and why the anger would not be "misplaced."

The anger is misplaced, since it has been directed at the devs and not the creators of the launcher and those who wanted it placed there, meaning Paradox.
Instead most of the Across the Obelisk community is blaming the dev team which are active on steam and discord, Paradox don't read your complains when you put them in places they aren't even looking.

[Zeddy]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Where in the TOS or EULA does it claim that the product will always remain the same as you bought it?

Nobody reads those. Outside of capitalistic dystopias they are not legally binding.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Zeddy:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Where in the TOS or EULA does it claim that the product will always remain the same as you bought it?

Nobody reads those. Outside of capitalistic dystopias they are not legally binding.

Yet you are bound by them. If you break the rules stated, they can revoke your rights to the service(game, in this case).
Similarly, if they break the rules without prior notice, you can hold them on that as well.
By the way, adding a launcher is not a breach.

They(and practically every other developer) specifically state that the service(software/game) is likely to change in the future and they are allowed to do so as they see fit. By agreeing(even without reading all the details), you give them your OK to do so.

If you disagree with any of the changes made(balance, UI, content added, added launcher etc.), your options are: Ask for refund(far from certain it will go through, depending on the case), or stop playing the game.
And of course, there is also the option of providing constructive feedback about any issues you might have, while still playing, because the issues are not to the scale that it stops the game from being fun.

[el Darkness]

Originally posted by Razzle:

before updating the game i just wanna know
do i need to make an account for this launcher or is it like the Bg3/DOS2 one where it just exists

I did not need to make an account, but it seems a lot of people had to.

[BillyBozarth]

Originally posted by Razzle:

before updating the game i just wanna know
do i need to make an account for this launcher or is it like the Bg3/DOS2 one where it just exists

Need to make an account.

Or better yet search the forms for workaround to uninstall this bloatware.

[BillyBozarth]

Originally posted by The Odd Peculiar™:

Originally posted by Midnight:

The entire point of my statement was moral outrage, and why the anger would not be "misplaced."

The anger is misplaced, since it has been directed at the devs and not the creators of the launcher and those who wanted it placed there, meaning Paradox.
Instead most of the Across the Obelisk community is blaming the dev team which are active on steam and discord, Paradox don't read your complains when you put them in places they aren't even looking.

It is absolutely the devs fault. They thought it would be profitable to sell their supporters out to a toxic company for money. Now they are receiving the rightful disdain their actions have earned. These devs, Paradox, and everyone involved with this mess will never receive a dime from me again.

Maybe the next developer that wants to sell out to paradox will look at this case and learn the true cost of shady anti consumer business deals for a quick buck.

[el Darkness]

Originally posted by BillyBozarth:

Maybe the next developer that wants to sell out to paradox will look at this case and learn the true cost of shady anti consumer business deals for a quick buck.

No they won't, enough money is enough, everyone have a price, the only question is if it is higher than others want to pay.