Stealth needs a little tweak (Lizard).

[Shashu]

I like playing scout and am playing the Lizard assassin atm and a few things keep bugging me is stealth setups on him. Other characters feel ok in terms of stealth as they don't have to do it often but for Lizard he has alot more stealth cards.

Fact that playing ANY card cancels the stealth can be little annoying with certain cards you get that could make a good combo.

Often on combat i get cards to mark or buff up before i could attack but it then that will just cancel the stealth and need to waste points to re-stealth, one card that really makes it difficult is his Enchanment, i would like to use that first before attacking in stealth but i can't and so i gotta waste energy to attack to apply it then barely get to hit enough to make use of it.

I think it would best if stealth only cancels when attacking, so we could use buffs, enchantments, debuffs before your first atk. (this could be for all or just the lizard only as a passive)

As well let stealth stack up each stealth card use, ofc that be little too powerful early on so i think that should be a last perk thing.

[Frost]

It's just something you have to learn, playing the correct order of your cards and dealing with the inevitable reality that Camo draw can feed you a card you would have really liked before using it.

At this point in time, Sylvie using stealth and a piercing build can solo clear the entire game on M0, with Gustav along that holds up in the higher madness levels as well.
Part of that is a learning curve around stealth and the understanding that draw can hurt you.

Full hand will become a problem for her as well, with the right combo you've got so many cards coming in, that you're not getting your duplicated rain of arrows. It is what it is.

If they buff stealth, a character who's already extremely powerful will get absolutely nuts.

[Shashu]

Originally posted by Frost:

It's just something you have to learn, playing the correct order of your cards and dealing with the inevitable reality that Camo draw can feed you a card you would have really liked before using it.

At this point in time, Sylvie using stealth and a piercing build can solo clear the entire game on M0, with Gustav along that holds up in the higher madness levels as well.
Part of that is a learning curve around stealth and the understanding that draw can hurt you.

Full hand will become a problem for her as well, with the right combo you've got so many cards coming in, that you're not getting your duplicated rain of arrows. It is what it is.

If they buff stealth, a character who's already extremely powerful will get absolutely nuts.

For other charactors Stealth does ok, it's more the Lizard it feels off as he has little more stealth cards that tend to waste points and combos with his stealth on first combat.

Lets put it this way, lizard should have a passive to keep stealth untill attacking instead, so it's only him.

**Re-edited the post a little**

[Corydonn]

Originally posted by Shashu:

Originally posted by Frost:

It's just something you have to learn, playing the correct order of your cards and dealing with the inevitable reality that Camo draw can feed you a card you would have really liked before using it.

At this point in time, Sylvie using stealth and a piercing build can solo clear the entire game on M0, with Gustav along that holds up in the higher madness levels as well.
Part of that is a learning curve around stealth and the understanding that draw can hurt you.

Full hand will become a problem for her as well, with the right combo you've got so many cards coming in, that you're not getting your duplicated rain of arrows. It is what it is.

If they buff stealth, a character who's already extremely powerful will get absolutely nuts.

For other charactors Stealth does ok, it's more the Lizard it feels off as he has little more stealth cards that tend to waste points and combos with his stealth on first combat.

Lets put it this way, lizard should have a passive to keep stealth untill attacking instead, so it's only him.

**Re-edited the post a little**

He does get a level up in end game at level 5 that lets him use skills and enchantments without breaking stealth so he can stack it up reaaaaallly high. That or he can use Neurotoxin which is a damage based skill that does a metric ton of damage with the right amount of stealth and Thuls stays in stealth while doing so!

The big thing about stealth is you want to use it for big damage cards like Eternal Lullaby/Far Shot/Fan of Knives + Sharp

[Crim]

I think the reason why it feels weird for Thuls is because Thuls starts in Stealth

Which is stupid right?
You can't use your pre-attack buffs if you're in Stealth

Every other Scout is freely able to use their pre-attack buffs before Stealthing,

So, Thuls either needs to just completely waste their Free Stealth (yay useless base ability)
or he needs to use an attack before buffing, so it likely will do less damage than if he did buff... which circles back to he just needs to completely waste his Free Stealth

And don't talk to me about the Lv5 Perk, its beyond the most garbage level up in the game.

[Stormfox]

I kinda think that perk should just be baseline, at the very least for Thuls himself. Perhaps it could be his starting passive? In the unlikely case that spamming stealth- or not-stealth-removing cards becomes an issue, he can always be subtly retuned afterwards.

From a satisfaction and play feeling pov, only damaging offensive cards should break stealth in general, but implementing that globally would likely mean a full rebalance of all stealth related cards.

[Fendelphi]

There are skills that creates debuffs(Mark etc.) while also reapplying Stealth.
There are Attacks that reapply Stealth.
If someone wants to make a "near-permanent stealth Thuls", they can do so already. Without the tier 5 Trait(that just makes it easier/more diverse).

Stealth based characters(including Thuls) are already insanely broken and does not need further buffs.

[OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle]

Stealth style Thuls is all about fishing for Assassin's Tools. They aren't that difficult to target either, usually.

Once you have those his passive becomes a significant sharp head start, which any scout would die for.

Stealth and sharp charges everywhere you can, every Camouflage you can, lose Blur. Take Momentum at level up and stack full of dual damage type melee attacks. Your Fan of Knives will be wiping fields on turn 1-2 easily.

And if you luck into a Netherblade alongside that, with a sharp-passing Gustav in the party? Absolutely universe-ending setup.

It 100% does not need to be stronger lol.

[TnJ]

Originally posted by OoOoOoooOOoOoorgle:

It 100% does not need to be stronger lol.

[Shashu]

Originally posted by Talamare:

I think the reason why it feels weird for Thuls is because Thuls starts in Stealth

Which is stupid right?
You can't use your pre-attack buffs if you're in Stealth

Every other Scout is freely able to use their pre-attack buffs before Stealthing,

So, Thuls either needs to just completely waste their Free Stealth (yay useless base ability)
or he needs to use an attack before buffing, so it likely will do less damage than if he did buff... which circles back to he just needs to completely waste his Free Stealth

And don't talk to me about the Lv5 Perk, its beyond the most garbage level up in the game.

Exactly! this is why it feels weird to me and feels off.

Tbh i kinda missed the fact it was on lvl 5 perk... but still, i think that should be his passive or little more early.

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

Stealth is a bit weak, but I still in an okay spot. To me its less about the damage/heal boost and more about avoiding hits on squishy characters. (Or avoiding all damage with Andrin/Thuls with Stealth+Evasion)