When can you punish Venom?

[Hellhounfd3223]

6h; 2h; QV(purple orb); dark angel ball super(mostly I jump attack him); ballset(when he puts his balls out...but he covers this well)

That's all I got, most of those r his finishers so it doesnt help much. He's plus soooo often. I hate his Jump dust, drives me insane I 'seemingly' can't do anything once its out. I play RAM and need some punish options for celestial.

There's a huge gap, more than anything I've seen in this game, between the floor 10 venoms and celestial venoms....they know the mechanics too well and they are plus all the time, I need some punish options.

[Kujou]

It's not so much being plus as it is spacing and traps. QV is one to consider for sure, but it's -7, so you have to be sure you have a quick enough button for how far out he's using it. Ideally (for venom), things like 2hs would be canceled into hs carcass which is +9.

Pressure wise, venom's weakness has always been instant blocking. You're only going to get the big gap you want if you can get that down. FD is another thing to consider so you might force a whiff, but it technically plays into venom's schtick of just stealing your meter for doing so.

Like any zoner, your job is to never let the script be flipped and have them keep you down. Venom isn't quite as solid defensively as he was in xrd, and if you have your own projectiles, especially in the air, you can keep him from setting up as much.

[Hellhounfd3223]

Originally posted by Kujou:

It's not so much being plus as it is spacing and traps. QV is one to consider for sure, but it's -7, so you have to be sure you have a quick enough button for how far out he's using it. Ideally (for venom), things like 2hs would be canceled into hs carcass which is +9.

Pressure wise, venom's weakness has always been instant blocking. You're only going to get the big gap you want if you can get that down. FD is another thing to consider so you might force a whiff, but it technically plays into venom's schtick of just stealing your meter for doing so.

Like any zoner, your job is to never let the script be flipped and have them keep you down. Venom isn't quite as solid defensively as he was in xrd, and if you have your own projectiles, especially in the air, you can keep him from setting up as much.

I agree with all of this, but I really need some stuff like "where can I throwout a calvados to interrupt his attack string, where can I 6p him in the air without him just jD delaying and catching me on whiff, where can I punch or grab him out of a combo, what are his dangerous high damage combos I can try to interrupt".
I'm probably not going to be able to take advantage of any InstantBlocking to take my turn after his string or whatever.

I'll put big emphasis on his air game, cause I really do struggle to deal with him when he's in the air. On Ram I generally endup going into the air to meet him since 6p is so hard to land with his jD changing the approach timings. I don't want to rule anything out... so if I got it wrong, great, just this is my experience so far.

[n00bdragon]

Originally posted by Hellhounfd3223:

I agree with all of this, but I really need some stuff like "where can I throwout a calvados to interrupt his attack string, where can I 6p him in the air without him just jD delaying and catching me on whiff, where can I punch or grab him out of a combo, what are his dangerous high damage combos I can try to interrupt".
I'm probably not going to be able to take advantage of any InstantBlocking to take my turn after his string or whatever.

I'll put big emphasis on his air game, cause I really do struggle to deal with him when he's in the air. On Ram I generally endup going into the air to meet him since 6p is so hard to land with his jD changing the approach timings. I don't want to rule anything out... so if I got it wrong, great, just this is my experience so far.

Calvados has a 24f startup and no invuln. It's not really usable as a punish or interrupt. Maybe if they whiff 6H on you or something, but really this is not the ideal use case. If you are trying to stuff jump in j.D, then just don't stand in the area where he can do that. j.D has a very sharp angle of attack. It doesn't cover a lot of horizontal area. If he's close enough that reacting to this is a problem, then he's right in your face. Just dash under him punish to descent. If he's jumping from far away, use your top-tier air-normals like j.S. Don't let him reach the angle where his j.D is effective. Worst comes to worst, just block it. You can't punish j.D but it's not plus. Take your turn when he lands.

He has no particularly damaging combos. Without a c.S starter or spending meter it is virtually impossible for him to break 150 damage. If you get hit trying something, just try again.

[T.E.W.S]

6P

[Pomp]

You don't, you kill him first. Your best bet is to FD him out, where carcass raid is not a true blockstring, and find an interrupt, but blocking venom at close range is a losing situation to be in and he can usually just react to an IAD attempt if he's good. If you play neutral patiently you can build meter, and then commit to the first chance you get to run your offense. Rushing to win neutral will just put you into his blender.

[Hellhounfd3223]

Originally posted by Pomp:

You don't, you kill him first. Your best bet is to FD him out, where carcass raid is not a true blockstring, and find an interrupt, but blocking venom at close range is a losing situation to be in and he can usually just react to an IAD attempt if he's good. If you play neutral patiently you can build meter, and then commit to the first chance you get to run your offense. Rushing to win neutral will just put you into his blender.

I've been more or less doing this. Poking with Ram's 5s j5s non-stop and then committing when I have meter and he's super frustrated....FD and 5H punishing him with Ram seems to work usually, and raw Mortobata tends to land cause he more or less has to commit to his combo. The matches tend to timeout alot is all I'm going to say. I'll have to figureout some combos after jS...at best I usually endup jS->5S into neutral....I should probably start rrc'ing in the air.

I've been doing the same thing against Dizzy lately, they don't seem like similar matchups but they are in this respect for Ram. Then again anyone I'm losing against I've been just poking with slash nonstop and ending up winning.