9 step combos are not "For Beginners"

[Chucktheninja]

Beginner looking for basic combos and so many labeled for beginners are anything but.

[Ziack]

Combos aren't even that important when you are first starting. Learn some basics, then fight actual people. If you focus too much on combos, you will feel discouraged when you go into a match and can't do anything because your brain is farting. First just learn spacing and neutral.

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Originally posted by Ziack:

Combos aren't even that important when you are first starting. Learn some basics, then fight actual people. If you focus too much on combos, you will feel discouraged when you go into a match and can't do anything because your brain is farting. First just learn spacing and neutral.

As a someone who is a complete novice to fighting games, but is experienced at MOBA's and passable at RTS's and shooters, that logic makes sense. Good fundamentals will go far further than just blindly copying the meta.

However, that is very rarely emphasized. Any outsider looking at fighting games, or trying to learn them, gets the impression that the only way to win is to memorize 20-hit combo strings. No one is telling them "focus on the basics, THEN learn combos".

[Ziack]

Originally posted by Nyakuza:

Originally posted by Ziack:

Combos aren't even that important when you are first starting. Learn some basics, then fight actual people. If you focus too much on combos, you will feel discouraged when you go into a match and can't do anything because your brain is farting. First just learn spacing and neutral.

As a someone who is a complete novice to fighting games, but is experienced at MOBA's and passable at RTS's and shooters, that logic makes sense. Good fundamentals will go far further than just blindly copying the meta.

However, that is very rarely emphasized. Any outsider looking at fighting games, or trying to learn them, gets the impression that the only way to win is to memorize 20-hit combo strings. No one is telling them "focus on the basics, THEN learn combos".

Yeah sadly that's true. I can only speak from experience, as I came to this game pretty new to fighters. I landed on floor 2 because of how bad I was, but after a week of dedication got to attempting celestial entry. I never learned huge combos, just good buttons on Ky and spacing :D

[SirFuzzWuzz]

Everyone meming with the combos, for beginner can be the optimal max dmg combo while for experts is pressing 5P

[Suntorias]

Originally posted by petro:

When I watch decent players fighting each other, they mostly use short/safe combos.
Long combos are for pros trying to show off on noobs.

This is simply not true in case the game being played has matured enough.

Pros will definitely take shorter routes due to strategic concerns like resource usage, followup opportunities or simply the presence of Burst, but otherwise they always go for nearly the most optimal routes.

edit:

Long combos are for pros trying to show off on noobs.

To be clear, this part is that's outright wrong. Any pro in their right mind will use the most optimal combo the situation allows.

Have you never seen DBFZ, UMVC3, Hokuto no Ken tournaments? The pros can and WILL do the half minute TOD given the chance, and they would be stupid not to when there's a competition on the line.

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Originally posted by Suntorias:

Long combos are for pros trying to show off on noobs.

To be clear, this part is that's outright wrong. Any pro in their right mind will use the most optimal combo the situation allows.

Have you never seen DBFZ, UMVC3, Hokuto no Ken tournaments? The pros can and WILL do the half minute TOD given the chance, and they would be stupid not to when there's a competition on the line.

On the other hand, I have NEVER had a fighting-game 'pro' actually show me the ropes of how to play when it's clear I'm a complete novice, all they want to do is style on me.

I think fighting games suffer from the 'git gud' plague more than any other genre. Sure, other genres like MOBA's or Soulslikes have a huge gap between noobs and pros, but only in fighting games does being the worse player mean not having control of your character for 95% of the match.

That's why conventional fighting games are doomed to never have mainstream appeal, just like RTS's; the gap between a noob and a pro is gigantic. It means that most wannabees give up shortly after starting The attitude of self-proclaimed 'pros' doesn't help.

[Suntorias]

Originally posted by Nyakuza:

On the other hand, I have NEVER had a fighting-game 'pro' actually show me the ropes of how to play when it's clear I'm a complete novice, all they want to do is style on me.

I think fighting games suffer from the 'git gud' plague more than any other genre. Sure, other genres like MOBA's or Soulslikes have a huge gap between noobs and pros, but only in fighting games does being the worse player mean not having control of your character for 95% of the match.

That's why conventional fighting games are doomed to never have mainstream appeal, just like RTS's; the gap between a noob and a pro is gigantic. It means that most wannabees give up shortly after starting The attitude of self-proclaimed 'pros' doesn't help.

There's a good reason for those quotation marks around "pro" in that sentence. You're not likely to meet any actual pros online if you're a beginner, everyone else is just an intermediate player.

Not sure where you looked, but most of the time if someone isn't sure where to start, they get a plethora of resources to improve, or if they ask for feedback on their matches, plenty of people are willing to help out with insights.

I'm not exactly sure how you expect more advanced players to "show you the ropes" in random online matches, especially when nowadays more and more fighting games limit ingame communication completely(and you can't even look up people anymore).

For the record I haven't seen anyone random show me the ropes in MOBAS either - flaming and often banworthy slurs a lot more - outside the community capacity I listed where fighting games are plenty helpful.

[WaterFowl]

just take them one step at a time. You don't gotta memorize the whole thing at once. Start by memorizing 3 or 4 steps of it. Being able to do a few 3 or 4 step combos consistently will get you farther than one long ass one that's predictable

after a while you'll see a logic in the combos and they'll be much easier to memorize, just take your time and work the bugs out on things you're learning against the cpu

this is my first fighting game too and there's been a lot to learn. Make sure you look at the "Dustloop" website for beginner combos (in game combo finder sucks) and helpful information on a character. And don't focus too much on winning, you're going to lose a lot. And a lot of elitist people will scoff at this, but do take advantage of the game's cpu enemies as a beginner. They're better than nearly everyone you'll fight at low levels in the tower, it's a lower pressure environment to practice new things, and it's much faster to rematch so you can practice faster. Then when you hop into real games it'll feel like just another match and not so intimidating

[Pre-Kardashian Kanye West]

I understand why long combos can be intimidating, I've been there as well, but with the right mindset they aren't that difficult. The way I go about it is practicing the combo in chunks, and once I get a certain part down I'll move on to the next.

For instance, if I'm practicing baiken and I am learning 5k > 2D > 236k, 2S > 41236H~H, I'll practice the first 3 hits and make sure I have them down before I move on to linking the 2S.

Also, if you haven't already looked at it the dustloop wiki is phenomenal (https://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Guilty_Gear_-Strive-). I agree with waterfowl, the ingame combo finder is alright but it's definitely clunky and hard to find combos that are truly beginner friendly.

Also, while learning combos can be satisfying once you get it down, it's also important to learn about stuff like the neutral, pokes, movement, and spacing. A player that has excellent neutral and bad combos will body a player that has bad neutral and excellent combos 9 out of 10 times.

[subtact]

Originally posted by Nyakuza:

I think fighting games suffer from the 'git gud' plague more than any other genre. Sure, other genres like MOBA's or Soulslikes have a huge gap between noobs and pros, but only in fighting games does being the worse player mean not having control of your character for 95% of the match.

That's why conventional fighting games are doomed to never have mainstream appeal, just like RTS's; the gap between a noob and a pro is gigantic. It means that most wannabees give up shortly after starting The attitude of self-proclaimed 'pros' doesn't help.

For me the biggest difference between MOBA's (my experience is a ♥♥♥♥ ton of Dota2) and Fighting games is outcomes are 100% on you. Taking self responsibility and a learner approach helps speed up learning a lot. Not even to mention being committed at least a bit to practice which isn't playing a match.

Those qualities usually go against most player's natures. There's a lot of appeal to being able to blame a teammate for a L. Sure there are certainly games where your hard carry is terrible & is just flushing the large portion of team resources down the toilet (& won't listen to anyone because they accidentally had a couple of good games because of the RPG mechanics), but it's such a goto/repeated excuse it's a crutch for many people, who can avoid the realisation they're not as good as the like to think they are.

As for 95% of the time being combo'd, that doesn't really apply to Strive entirely, especially on the lower floors. Some characters may seem like they have Touch of Deaths on one hit, but I think I've only seen close to TOD combos when the RISC is cranked or these new Potemkin combos with the first Season 2 update.

I do empathise with the learning curve for people who have never before put in the effort to play a fighting game more competitive. There's a lot of losing when you're doing that first bit of learning. In the beginning stages or any time you hit a plateau where you're not winning as much because of fighting another higher tier of player, don't make the main goal to Win, set goals focused on yourself and improving.

Pick a single specific thing you want to do more of (which should help you play better in a match up or in general). An example of one is: use meter more, and that can be reduced to an even more specific goal of: use meter for damage dealing Overdrive(s) off of easy 1-2 button combos/gatlings. On the lower levels, even moderate improvements in doing more damage for every hit confirm (which the OD confirm goal is one way to achieve that), getting better with movement/dashing, or learning to block better will translate to wins.

Watching your own replays looking for your mistakes and ways you could have done better is also a good way of coming up with improvement goals.


As far as OP goes, I totally agree with the people advising not to try learning longer combos in the beginning if they're having trouble with them. Learned experience through playing, to get you used to your characters neutral options (and different character match ups) is far more valuable.

To paraphrase a fighting game tautology: the best combo is the one you can execute reliably when you have the opportunity to.

Like even if your first BNB is cl.S, f.S, 5H, Special move (which I think nearly every character has in GGST), you can get some play experience, and learn new combos as you progress and begin to feel more comfortable. It's all a process, ♥♥♥♥ won't come Day 1, but the good thing is, there are so many amazing resources available, that obtaining knowledge to help you get better has never been more accessible as it is now.

[勇気]

Further proof that no matter how much you dumb down the game people like this will never be satisfied until it's an auto-battler.

[Suntorias]

Originally posted by 勇気:

Further proof that no matter how much you dumb down the game people like this will never be satisfied until it's an auto-battler.

On an unrelated note, it would be interesting to have some sort of Fighter AutoChess as a completely different kind of game.

[isitmemberi.hopto.org]

Originally posted by NachtmahR:

... they are demanding time wastes after all. ...

wonderfully said, good sir!

[isitmemberi.hopto.org]

Originally posted by Chucktheninja:

Originally posted by NachtmahR:

Welcome to fighting games. You actually have to practice even if you beginners and millenials don't want to hear about it. The series are already dumbed down so more beginners can get into them more easily. Now Arcsys games are all the same and you newcomers still complain.
These games have combo challenges and training modes for a reason. You either only play these games drunk with friends to push random buttons or you commit and stop complaining. Competitive games are no casual time wastes, they are demanding time wastes after all.
These anime combo spamfests are harder than your usual Street Fighters though, so maybe you want to play SF first before diving into other fighting games.

You're mental dude. All I said is labeling long combos as for beginners is inherently incorrect and your dumb ass came here ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about millennials. I am in no way saying this game needs to be dumbed down any more than everyone is saying it is, I just want people to stop slapping every label on their god combos that are much harder to pull off than a typical beginner is capable of.

No, it's you're a douchebag... dude.

[CULT|ExiledOne]

Basically don’t worry about all the BS. Just jump into the game and try to learn your character. The rest will come naturally. You don’t gotta be Daigo to have fun in this genre.

Strive isn’t really for me but it is a good entry point for people new to fighting games. You’re putting too much pressure on yourself for no reason. You’re new so you will be bad, terrible even and that’s normal and okay.