why do inputs miss even though I press the correct input?

[Spooky7.62]

help

[Rabbit4nld]

your timing is off for combo strings. some combos you have to delay sometimes for the second hit to come out. i've practiced inputs everyday for the last 2 months and to be honest, if your missing inputs, your not doing the right, or your missing one of the key inputs.

[Providence 777]

Originally posted by Slaskburk:

The only characters in Strive that have negative edge are Zato and Happy Chaos (if I'm not mistaken?), and its restricted to certain moves only.

this is not correct.
Zato and Happy Chaos have unique moves that execute because of negative edge, but that does NOT mean this is the only place where the game uses negative edge.

every button command, and every directional command for specials and over drives, uses negative edge to increase the probability of the move executing, by checking press and release to fire the attack.

This is why dash RC can happen seemingly out of the blue, because you released the directional command BEFORE RC, you still get a dash RC because the "release" counts as a command, and it's still in the buffer.

Originally posted by Slaskburk:

Originally posted by nwad:

I'm sure most of this could be avoided by giving an option to disable all those (in)convenient little input shortcuts. They could be backfiring.

We still have no information what problem OP is facing, unless you were referring to your own troubles that you mentioned.

Based on the OP's description, it sounds like negative edge is probably screwing them.

[Slaskburk]

Originally posted by Providence 777:

Based on the OP's description, it sounds like negative edge is probably screwing them.

What part?

[Slaskburk]

Originally posted by Providence 777:

every button command, and every directional command for specials and over drives, uses negative edge to increase the probability of the move executing, by checking press and release to fire the attack.

This would infer that you can get both a normal attack (eg. c.S) and an overdrive or special move using a single press of the face button. I cannot make this occur. Could you showcase it?

Originally posted by Providence 777:

This is why dash RC can happen seemingly out of the blue, because you released the directional command BEFORE RC, you still get a dash RC because the "release" counts as a command, and it's still in the buffer.

This would infer that you can get a backdash or drift RC using a single back input.

[Providence 777]

Originally posted by Slaskburk:

Originally posted by Providence 777:

Based on the OP's description, it sounds like negative edge is probably screwing them.

What part?

when you look at the input history, and you see that you made no errors, and the move didn't execute. That part

Originally posted by Slaskburk:

This would infer that you can get both a normal attack (eg. c.S) and an overdrive or special move using a single press of the face button. I cannot make this occur. Could you showcase it?

That's not what it infer, because the input gets consumed if either of the moves execute. Once the command executes something, then the input is consumed, but if no move executes yet, the command is still in the buffer and is used for the next move.

Example: Try to do a 236 special after dashing, without accidentally triggering a 623 special, without using the dash macro.

Originally posted by Providence 777:

This is why dash RC can happen seemingly out of the blue, because you released the directional command BEFORE RC, you still get a dash RC because the "release" counts as a command, and it's still in the buffer.

This would infer that you can get a backdash or drift RC using a single back input. [/quote]
No, that's not what it infers, Ram's rekka has multiple back inputs in it, you press back at least 3 times, trying to RC during this causes a dash RC.

The only way I found to prevent it was to do a forward dash RC.

[Slaskburk]

Originally posted by Providence 777:

Originally posted by Slaskburk:

What part?

when you look at the input history, and you see that you made no errors, and the move didn't execute. That part

We don't know if OP is playing Sol and trying to special cancel into 214S.

Originally posted by Providence 777:

That's not what it infer, because the input gets consumed if either of the moves execute. Once the command executes something, then the input is consumed, but if no move executes yet, the command is still in the buffer and is used for the next move.

Example: Try to do a 236 special after dashing, without accidentally triggering a 623 special, without using the dash macro.

This is completely unrelated to negative edge. This behaviour stems from input buffering. You are completely right that it intervenes for characters where you have overlapping 236 and 623 inputs - because the 623 will be interpreted first and execute that special move if you start with forward.
There are two ways you perform this - the traditional way is doing 2366K (Sol Bandit Revolver) This is how you had to do micro dash BR in older GG titles. Strive introduced the 41236K override allowing you to cleanly make BR which is very useful when hit confirming e.g 6S, or if you're not used to doing 2366 and/or prefer dashing before inputting the special move even though it incurs one or two additional directional inputs. It does have situational uses as well I suppose.

Originally posted by Providence 777:

This is why dash RC can happen seemingly out of the blue, because you released the directional command BEFORE RC, you still get a dash RC because the "release" counts as a command, and it's still in the buffer.

Originally posted by Slaskburk:

This would infer that you can get a backdash or drift RC using a single back input.

No, that's not what it infers, Ram's rekka has multiple back inputs in it, you press back at least 3 times, trying to RC during this causes a dash RC.

The only way I found to prevent it was to do a forward dash RC.

I'm sorry but I don't understand. Ram's Rekka is performed by executing a single 214P input for each consecutive follow up. There is only one back input (4) for each part. If you perform an additional back input for any of the parts, you will get a backdash RC. This is the exact same input buffering that allows for e.g 2366K Bandit Revolvers.
If you don't input multiple back input during any part of the Rekka, you will not get a backdash.

This all pertains to input buffering, and not Negative Edge.

[Slaskburk]

Originally posted by Providence 777:

Originally posted by Slaskburk:

This would infer that you can get both a normal attack (eg. c.S) and an overdrive or special move using a single press of the face button. I cannot make this occur. Could you showcase it?

That's not what it infer, because the input gets consumed if either of the moves execute. Once the command executes something, then the input is consumed, but if no move executes yet, the command is still in the buffer and is used for the next move.

Furthermore, this is exactly what it infers. Negative Edge by definition means that releasing the face button constitutes an additional input - allowing for things like canceling normal attack into special moves with a single button press by releasing that same attack button after inputting the directionals. This tracks all the way back to Street Fighter 2.

[nwad]

Another thing I want to mention is that I play a lot of rhythm games, both with keyboard and controllers (f310 and sn30 pro2) and regularly get full combos, often with 100% accuracy. I don't think my inputs are the problem. I think the game is doing something weird.

[n00bdragon]

If there are thousands of people playing the game who do not have your problem then it is almost certainly not the game and is something you are doing wrong. There's a remote chance that it's a fault with your equipment but since you've tried so many input devices that can be ruled out too. The only constant to your problem is your own actions. Examine your inputs in training mode to figure out what's happening. If that still doesn't solve your question, then tell us exactly what you're doing, what you see, and what you expect to be happening which is not.

[Providence 777]

Originally posted by Slaskburk:

Furthermore, this is exactly what it infers. Negative Edge by definition means that releasing the face button constitutes an additional input - allowing for things like canceling normal attack into special moves with a single button press by releasing that same attack button after inputting the directionals. This tracks all the way back to Street Fighter 2.

not if the button triggered the attack, it gets consumed if that happens, if the button doesn't trigger the attack, it can be used freely (and unintentionally) for another upcoming command.

[Providence 777]

Originally posted by n00bdragon:

If there are thousands of people playing the game who do not have your problem then it is almost certainly not the game and is something you are doing wrong. There's a remote chance that it's a fault with your equipment but since you've tried so many input devices that can be ruled out too. The only constant to your problem is your own actions. Examine your inputs in training mode to figure out what's happening. If that still doesn't solve your question, then tell us exactly what you're doing, what you see, and what you expect to be happening which is not.

How do you explain the input working correctly in other games, just not in strive?

Have any of you tried Koihime Enbu?

[Slaskburk]

Originally posted by Providence 777:

Originally posted by Slaskburk:

Furthermore, this is exactly what it infers. Negative Edge by definition means that releasing the face button constitutes an additional input - allowing for things like canceling normal attack into special moves with a single button press by releasing that same attack button after inputting the directionals. This tracks all the way back to Street Fighter 2.

not if the button triggered the attack, it gets consumed if that happens, if the button doesn't trigger the attack, it can be used freely (and unintentionally) for another upcoming command.

Define "consumed"?
By this logic, if I tried gatling into an invalid action, e.g. Sol's 5K>5H. Would this "consume" the input?!

If it doesn't - then providing there is actually univeral Negative Edge I SHOULD be able to gatling into 6H (because 5k>6H is a valid gatling!) simply by inputting and holding 6 then releasing Heavy Slash?

I might add that this does not work.
It doesn't work for any special move, either.

And also, in a game like Street Fighter 2 which does have universal Negative Edge there's no such thing as "consuming" the attack. Walk up and kick someone in the face and score a hit - keep holding down the kick button. Then walk up and hit a PUNCH, and input 214 then release the kick button: Tatsu comes out for a combo.

[Providence 777]

Originally posted by Slaskburk:

Define "consumed"?

it's the terminology used in UE4 docs to describe a button press that has been accepted (used), and the game is no longer going to use it for something else.

Think of the input as a resource that you only have a finite number of, to divide and send out to trigger actions, the number of inputs in the pool is the number of times the player pressed (and "released" if there is negative edge) a button.

If do a input, and it's used to execute a command, it can't be used anymore.
But if you have multiple commands that recognize that input, how does the game choose which command gets the input?

This is where short-cut and priority systems come into play, where the game tries to figure out what the player wants that input to be used for, since the input can't be consumed by multiple commands, something has to take priority.

Originally posted by Slaskburk:

By this logic, if I tried gatling into an invalid action, e.g. Sol's 5K>5H. Would this "consume" the input?!
If it doesn't - then providing there is actually univeral Negative Edge I SHOULD be able to gatling into 6H (because 5k>6H is a valid gatling!) simply by inputt 6 and releasing Heavy Slash?

that's how it works in SFV, but in Strive it doesn't last long at all, feels like only a few frames.

[Slaskburk]

Originally posted by Providence 777:

that's how it works in SFV, but in Strive it doesn't last long at all, feels like only a few frames.

That's how it works in most games employing Negative Edge. I haven't played every game so I can't speak on all of them.

The few frames you're experiencing is most likely the lenient input interpreter.
Strive's buffering and interpreter is actually so lenient during combos to the degree where you can do a run 2K~6H (imagine piano:ing/kara:ing) as Sol and input both commands before the 2K connects. You will still combo into 6H after you slide into range during 2K's active frames and gatling the 5K into 6HS.

Another way you can feel this buffering is by performing a neutral jump and inputting H during the landing frames (keep holding it) and then press forward. The game will accept this as "6H" despite that what you did was actually 5H and then tried walking forward.

This is all due to the buffering and the lenient input interpreter, unrelated to Negative Edge.

[n00bdragon]

Originally posted by Providence 777:

Originally posted by n00bdragon:

If there are thousands of people playing the game who do not have your problem then it is almost certainly not the game and is something you are doing wrong. There's a remote chance that it's a fault with your equipment but since you've tried so many input devices that can be ruled out too. The only constant to your problem is your own actions. Examine your inputs in training mode to figure out what's happening. If that still doesn't solve your question, then tell us exactly what you're doing, what you see, and what you expect to be happening which is not.

How do you explain the input working correctly in other games, just not in strive?

Have any of you tried Koihime Enbu?

Because this isn't SFV or Koihime Enbu. Not all games are programmed the exact same way. GGST only uses negative edge for Eddie and certain things that Happy Chaos can do.