The floor system is pretty bad for balanced matchs

[dhoma[FR]]

Hi guys, what do you think about the floor system inside the tower ?
I found it very unblanced and tedious.

Let me explain.
First, there is 10 floors + celestial.
When you win matchs, you rank up by being refused to a lower floor.
If you win enough at floor 10, you gain access to celestial, then, if you win 5 matches without loosing more than 1 time, you are now VIP and you can stay for one full month in celestial as much as you want.
If you lose, you go back to the floor 10 and you have to win some match again to "rank up".

Therefore, I found the match I play very unbalanced because there is a huge mix of various skill/level players. First, when you access the tower, you have to beat a bot Sol. If you win, you get refused to floor 5 or less.
I insist about the refused, because if you are a floor 6 player, nothing prevent you from going to floor 10 to fight people.

So let's resume, if I'm a huge beginner that know nothing like John Snow and I beat the bot Sol by spamming random things (because this bot is really very easy to beat), I'm now floor 6. I'm a beginner, I don't know how to really play or how the game works, but I'm floor 6. I kill other beginner because I'm playing an easier character than them, and BAM.
Floor 7, 8 and 9. Easy. I don't know what I'm really doing, but who cares ? I'm having fun and I can grind a bit, it's cool !
And then, there's floor 10... And worse, celestial floor.
In floor 10, there are :
- beginner that spam one thing that carried them here (no offense, that's just a thing, if you're a beginner, you have a lot to learn, but you can still be floor 10 with very basic things)
- beginner that are curious and go here to try (because "ranking" up only means you can't access lower floor, you can go whatever you want otherwise)
- medium level player that are where they should be
- decent level player that desperatly try to gain access to celestial
- high level player that just want to crush beginners, they are vip, but they can still go to floor 10

in celestial, you have the same group of player + good to very very good player/pro players than can't go up and are just here to play.

Because of that, becoming vip is a very random things, because there is a very wide range of skill in floor 10 and celestial, if you're a beginner in floor 10, and you fight other beginners, you can sometime get access to promote match in celestial, so average player can beat you and rank up to vip....
You can also be a good player and fight only very good players and be stuck between floor 10 and celestial while you are clearly better than many vip players....
You can also be a beginner that knows a vip player that let you win vs him and bam, easy vip. You can choose not to fight your bad MU and select only good MU. If you're an Axl player, why fighting something that is not potemkin?
Ranked atm are a big mess, and I don't even talk about connection problems...


TL;DR

- First, it's too easy to grind the tower floors, it's too easy to rank up or just come to floor 10 and there is a huge gap of skills in the same floor. Sometime, I'm getting crushed hard by a very good player, and the next match, I'm the one who's crushing somebody. It makes the grind tedious, because most of matches are on sided.
- Second, you can cherry pick. That's a huge problem for ranked matches. You can litteraly choose who you want to fight. Bad MU ? dodge. Very good player ? Dodge. You just don't like him ? dodge. That's a very bad design for ranked.
- Third, we need more floors ! Don't make everybody start floor 6/7 !
- Fourth, don't mix vip with players in their promotion series, make on floor were you have to make your 5/6 wins, and one floor for exclusive vip access !

[Might Be A FemMarine]

To be honest, you are the first person I've seen who had anything bad to say about the tower system. It does an excellent job of keeping people from getting really overwhelmed, and your arguments don't make any sense.

Originally posted by dhomaFR:

I'm a beginner, I don't know how to really play or how the game works, but I'm floor 6. I kill other beginner because I'm playing an easier character than them, and BAM. Floor 7, 8 and 9. Easy. I don't know what I'm really doing, but who cares.

In floor 10, there are :
- beginner that spam one thing that carried them here (no offense, that's just a thing, if you're a beginner, you have a lot to learn, but you can still be floor 10 with very basic things)
- beginner that are curious and go here to try (because "ranking" up only means you can't access lower floor, you can go whatever you want otherwise)

What planet do you live on where anything that you said here is even remotely true? Beginners fighting their way to floor 8 and 9? I'm very average at this game and nobody on floor 7 can even put a scratch on me. There is a HUGE difference between floor 6 and floor 9.

The intention of the tower system is that if you are losing a lot, you can go down to your recommended floor AND THE PEOPLE STRONGER THAN YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO FOLLOW. In a way, you don't "climb" the tower by winning, it's more like you get cut off from the tower one floor at a time, and you unlock the option to fight weaker players by losing!

[Ahriman]

right now legacy knowledge from past fighting games will carry you to floor 9-10, it's not really too "easy" to get to that floor, the perspective of experienced fighting game players is often skewed. for an actual newcomer it is challenging to get to this rank. right now these floors are just separating the people who somewhat know what they're doing to the people who are completely new which means the skill levels will be very mixed. as time goes on the floor skill levels will be more consistent

[dhoma[FR]]

Originally posted by Ahriman:

right now legacy knowledge from past fighting games will carry you to floor 9-10, it's not really too "easy" to get to that floor, the perspective of experienced fighting game players is often skewed. for an actual newcomer it is challenging to get to this rank. right now these floors are just separating the people who somewhat know what they're doing to the people who are completely new which means the skill levels will be very mixed. as time goes on the floor skill levels will be more consistent

In celestial, I have seen potemkin player just spamming megafist and nothing else, some may that was just spamming jump attacks.
You really can go to floor 10/celestial by just spamming one or two things.

The skill level of players I fight here are very wide and it's pretty bad imo.

I can understand that if you are in floor 6/7 you don't feel like it but trust me, floor 10 and celestial are a huge mess.

It's like in street fighter 5 the max rank were plat, just imagine if you're plat, you're matched with plat, gold, warlords, diamond etc... It's pretty messy imo.

[Ahriman]

Originally posted by dhomaFR:

Originally posted by Ahriman:

right now legacy knowledge from past fighting games will carry you to floor 9-10, it's not really too "easy" to get to that floor, the perspective of experienced fighting game players is often skewed. for an actual newcomer it is challenging to get to this rank. right now these floors are just separating the people who somewhat know what they're doing to the people who are completely new which means the skill levels will be very mixed. as time goes on the floor skill levels will be more consistent

In celestial, I have seen potemkin player just spamming megafist and nothing else, some may that was just spamming jump attacks.
You really can go to floor 10/celestial by just spamming one or two things.

The skill level of players I fight here are very wide and it's pretty bad imo.

I can understand that if you are in floor 6/7 you don't feel like it but trust me, floor 10 and celestial are a huge mess.

It's like in street fighter 5 the max rank were plat, just imagine if you're plat, you're matched with plat, gold, warlords, diamond etc... It's pretty messy imo.

i'm on floor 10 and i've played more than you, i don't experience this. celestial players usually know what they're doing or at the very least dont spam.

[dhoma[FR]]

Originally posted by Ahriman:

Originally posted by dhomaFR:

In celestial, I have seen potemkin player just spamming megafist and nothing else, some may that was just spamming jump attacks.
You really can go to floor 10/celestial by just spamming one or two things.

The skill level of players I fight here are very wide and it's pretty bad imo.

I can understand that if you are in floor 6/7 you don't feel like it but trust me, floor 10 and celestial are a huge mess.

It's like in street fighter 5 the max rank were plat, just imagine if you're plat, you're matched with plat, gold, warlords, diamond etc... It's pretty messy imo.

i'm on floor 10 and i've played more than you, i don't experience this. celestial players usually know what they're doing or at the very least dont spam.

I don't think you have played more than me ^^
I own the game on ps4 too and I play much more on ps4.
You can know what you're doing and still spamming one thing.
It's not that hard with char like May, potem or Sol to rank up to floor 10 with one or two gimmick

[Might Be A FemMarine]

Originally posted by dhomaFR:

In celestial, I have seen potemkin player just spamming megafist and nothing else, some may that was just spamming jump attacks.
You really can go to floor 10/celestial by just spamming one or two things.

Those are the words of someone who got bodied and didn't recognize the legitimate strategy behind relying heavily on one move.

[josealb77]

I'm fine with The Tower system. The floor system is pretty good. And you are saying things that are subjetive and not true at all.

I find the floor system pretty good.

[josealb77]

Originally posted by CatgirlKazu:

Originally posted by dhomaFR:

In celestial, I have seen potemkin player just spamming megafist and nothing else, some may that was just spamming jump attacks.
You really can go to floor 10/celestial by just spamming one or two things.

Those are the words of someone who got bodied and didn't recognize the legitimate strategy behind relying heavily on one move.

+1

[BACKSTABUUU]

Originally posted by dhomaFR:

TL;DR

- First, it's too easy to grind the tower floors, it's too easy to rank up or just come to floor 10 and there is a huge gap of skills in the same floor. Sometime, I'm getting crushed hard by a very good player, and the next match, I'm the one who's crushing somebody. It makes the grind tedious, because most of matches are on sided.
- Second, you can cherry pick. That's a huge problem for ranked matches. You can litteraly choose who you want to fight. Bad MU ? dodge. Very good player ? Dodge. You just don't like him ? dodge. That's a very bad design for ranked.
- Third, we need more floors ! Don't make everybody start floor 6/7 !
- Fourth, don't mix vip with players in their promotion series, make on floor were you have to make your 5/6 wins, and one floor for exclusive vip access !

You know what? I don't really disagree with any of those points. If your post was only this, you'd probably have a lot more people agreeing with you.

That said, these are mostly just problems for people at the top end. The tower experience from floor 1-10 is great, I have not had a single (non-connection related) problem with towers. If you're at or below floor 10, I honestly believe you have nothing at all to complain about.

I'm not a VIP so I can't personally attest to that experience, but I do pretty commonly hear from VIPs that match quality is all over the place. For the players who get into celestial and they still feel very outmatched, there needs to be additional progression.

But a lot of VIP players do need to understand, the next step for skill progression, once you've played so much at the top that you start to become disappointed because you're playing against people below your skill level, is to to start entering tournaments. I don't think any matchmaking system or improvements could ever replace that. Tournaments are what the best players care about, not netplay against randoms.

[Genno]

I think this system will work eventualy, but right now it is just too compressed in the higher floors (9-10 and celestial).

When people actualy get good at the game they will gatekeep alot harder in these floors and most ppl shouldnt even be close to floor 10.

Just give it some time.

[The_Dybbuk_King]

Originally posted by BACKSTABUUU:

Originally posted by dhomaFR:

TL;DR

- First, it's too easy to grind the tower floors, it's too easy to rank up or just come to floor 10 and there is a huge gap of skills in the same floor. Sometime, I'm getting crushed hard by a very good player, and the next match, I'm the one who's crushing somebody. It makes the grind tedious, because most of matches are on sided.
- Second, you can cherry pick. That's a huge problem for ranked matches. You can litteraly choose who you want to fight. Bad MU ? dodge. Very good player ? Dodge. You just don't like him ? dodge. That's a very bad design for ranked.
- Third, we need more floors ! Don't make everybody start floor 6/7 !
- Fourth, don't mix vip with players in their promotion series, make on floor were you have to make your 5/6 wins, and one floor for exclusive vip access !

You know what? I don't really disagree with any of those points. If your post was only this, you'd probably have a lot more people agreeing with you.

That said, these are mostly just problems for people at the top end. The tower experience from floor 1-10 is great, I have not had a single (non-connection related) problem with towers. If you're anywhere below Heaven VIP, I honestly believe you have nothing at all to complain about.

I'm not a Heaven VIP so I can't personally attest to that experience, but I do pretty commonly hear from VIPs. that match quality is all over the place. That's understandable and it should be addressed for sure. But a lot of those players do need to understand, the next step for skill progression, once you've played so much at the top and start to become disappointed because you're not playing against people at your skill level, is to to start entering tournaments. I don't think any matchmaking system or improvements could ever replace that, tournaments are what the best players care about, not netplay against randoms.

VIP Anji here

Heaven works fine as it is (outside of connection issues present with all levels of the tower). Is it tough to fight people up here? Yes, but that's kind of the point. The players up here are the top 300-400 or so in their respective characters. Its hard on this floor because its supposed to be the hardest. We aren't playing for rank ups anymore, its just a matter of getting better and trying to get the aura at the end of the month.

[dhoma[FR]]

Originally posted by The_Dybbuk_King:

Originally posted by BACKSTABUUU:

You know what? I don't really disagree with any of those points. If your post was only this, you'd probably have a lot more people agreeing with you.

That said, these are mostly just problems for people at the top end. The tower experience from floor 1-10 is great, I have not had a single (non-connection related) problem with towers. If you're anywhere below Heaven VIP, I honestly believe you have nothing at all to complain about.

I'm not a Heaven VIP so I can't personally attest to that experience, but I do pretty commonly hear from VIPs. that match quality is all over the place. That's understandable and it should be addressed for sure. But a lot of those players do need to understand, the next step for skill progression, once you've played so much at the top and start to become disappointed because you're not playing against people at your skill level, is to to start entering tournaments. I don't think any matchmaking system or improvements could ever replace that, tournaments are what the best players care about, not netplay against randoms.

VIP Anji here

Heaven works fine as it is (outside of connection issues present with all levels of the tower). Is it tough to fight people up here? Yes, but that's kind of the point. The players up here are the top 300-400 or so in their respective characters. Its hard on this floor because its supposed to be the hardest. We aren't playing for rank ups anymore, its just a matter of getting better and trying to get the aura at the end of the month.

Well, I'm VIP too and I feel I have much much room to improve. I feel like I'm still a beginner and and get bodied often vs good players that are ate the very same rank at me.

I'm disapointed because I like "classic" ranked because when you focus on a thing and work about it, you can see how it help you to rank more, gain a bit of point, level up, you feel better and your rank is better too.
In VIP there is no such thing, there is vip and that's all.
I really don't feel like I'm a top ranking player or anything, I feel like I'm average at best and I need to improve a lot, but when I work on a new combo/mix/setup and it does absolutely nothing, because vs worse player than me, I destroy them, and vs better player, I get destroy, and all of this happens in celestial.

It's a strange feeling because with "classic" ranked system, you are matched with player with roughtly the same level as you. So if you loose and you understand why you loose. You can watch a replay, work on this or that, get better, and then you rank up.

In VIP, you get bodied because there is a realm between some players, and even if I improve, I will still get bodied. It's demotivating at best...
And even if I get better.... there is nothing after vip, I'm vip and that's all. that's pretty sad...

[Muscarine]

I kinda disagree there, mostly because in Celestial itself there's a huge level discrepancy that's not exclusive to the lower floors, or floor 10
i.e A lot of Celestial players aren't any better than floor 10s

If we really wanted a more accurate ladder then the 2 loss you're out tickets challenge should start as it is now, but then Celestial should be 10 more floors itself

Thing is this is going to split the playerbase, it would be very lonely at the top, and ultimately i don't believe this would be healthy for the game and its community

Personally, i've just switched to the Park, there's basically no difference outside of bragging rights, you can still fight at high level, and matches don't get interrupted

[The_Dybbuk_King]

Originally posted by dhomaFR:

In VIP, you get bodied because there is a realm between some players, and even if I improve, I will still get bodied. It's demotivating at best...
And even if I get better.... there is nothing after vip, I'm vip and that's all. that's pretty sad...

https://youtu.be/ukYZ8T6O0ig

[KayJay]

OP, show me just one ranking system in any other Fighting game that is better than Strive's.
That is a challenge you won't be able to beat.
Strive is the very first Fighting game that succeeds in giving bloody fresh newcomers actually air to breath online.
Also VIP is not just VIP, there are default VIPs and there are VIPs with Aura. If you are not winning enough by the end of the month, you will get kicked out of VIP and the others will get the aura.
The longer a first meta will develop, the harder it will be to get into VIP and the harder it will be to regain the aura.