Timed Level is awful

[Aerotactics]

Why do you give a casual experience, then throw in a timer and expect people not to panic?
I attempted it 3 times with the timer and failed half way in. The hints are not helpful. Sure, I could take picture along the way, but I only have a limit of 10, and I WILL run out.

This level is awful because it tells you to take pictures along the way, like how am I supposed to have the forsight to know what I need without playing through the level multiple times? I shouldn't have to need parts of a level in a future level without knowing what is in the future level. It's poor puzzle design.

[Bromi]

Hard agree, ruins the tone of what was otherwise a lovely thoughtful game. If I wanted a time trial platformer, I would play one. This has really soured my opinion of the game.

[joridiculous]

Originally posted by Bromic:

Hard agree, ruins the tone of what was otherwise a lovely thoughtful game. If I wanted a time trial platformer, I would play one. This has really soured my opinion of the game.

Same here. It got no place in a game like this to suddenly drop stupid Timed puzzles.

Originally posted by Delumen:

Having failure states like this in puzzle games just means that if you fail halfway through, you have to re-solve the same parts you've already solved. Which isn't fun, it's drudge work. It's the absolute worst sin a puzzle game can have in my opinion.

Agree 100%

[Delumen]

And now that I think about it, the issue kinda stings that little bit more because they already solved the issue of repeated drudge work absolutely perfectly with the rewind function. Just go straight back to where you think you messed up and try your new solution attempt. Simple and elegant.

[rumpelstiltskin]

Originally posted by Delumen:

And now that I think about it, the issue kinda stings that little bit more because they already solved the issue of repeated drudge work absolutely perfectly with the rewind function. Just go straight back to where you think you messed up and try your new solution attempt. Simple and elegant.

except rewind doesn't affect the timer

[Delumen]

Originally posted by rumpelstiltskin:

Originally posted by Delumen:

And now that I think about it, the issue kinda stings that little bit more because they already solved the issue of repeated drudge work absolutely perfectly with the rewind function. Just go straight back to where you think you messed up and try your new solution attempt. Simple and elegant.

except rewind doesn't affect the timer

Yes, that's my point. They solved the problem, then didn't use the solution. Maybe if they allowed rewinding the timer but cut the time down, then the puzzle could have been almost like figuring out a tool assisted speedrun route. I dunno.

[TheSpellbreaker]

Originally posted by Earthplayer:

The level can be completed without using pictures from previous areas if you are good enough (it's really hard though) - taking pictures with you just makes it a bit easier to give you room for error where you need it.

#JusticeForCait

Timers are just a lame excuse for adding difficulty. It's just try over and over again to learn a pattern. Many games uses this absolute unnecessary thing. Talos Principle for example the final Stage ist annoying as f*ck too.

There are better ways.

[bl_4u]

Originally posted by TheSpellbreaker:

There are better ways.

Go on?

[Delumen]

Originally posted by bl_4u:

Originally posted by TheSpellbreaker:

There are better ways.

Go on?

Make harder puzzles that combine all the elements from before as a true final test. For example, I don't believe there were any puzzles that involved taking photos of portals. Or how about giving the player both the normal camera and the destructive camera, and designing a puzzle around that? The game's puzzle design outside of the final level was simply amazing, but there's still some other places they could have taken it. They can certainly do better than 'solve a standard puzzle from each chapter, but if you're too slow solve them again'

That being said I'll give them points for giving you an early boombox and an extra selfie to skip the later puzzles if you're thinking ahead, that was pretty clever.

[bl_4u]

Originally posted by Delumen:

I don't believe there were any puzzles that involved taking photos of portals.

29:50 https://youtu.be/ltVA80VPNMs?t=1790

There's another one where the portal is on the opposite side of a blank wall and you need to flip the image over to make it stand upright

They go on to design puzzles with power coils which when you get the camera for yourself, because being able to take a photo of the exit and then put it wherever you want is too easy.

[Delumen]

Originally posted by bl_4u:

29:50 https://youtu.be/ltVA80VPNMs?t=1790

No, not teleporters, portals. The doorways that change the 'artstyle' of the world. They only pop up for a short time, and those puzzles don't really use any other mechanics, you're just figuring out the right order to walk through them. There's so much potential there, seems a waste to teach us the mechanic but never really test it.

[bl_4u]

Originally posted by Delumen:

No, not teleporters, portals. The doorways that change the 'artstyle' of the world.

Ah I see what you mean. I guess there was never a time where travelling through different art styles actually changed anything about the rest of the puzzle, it seemed more like 'proof of concept' or a hidden feature.

[Delumen]

Originally posted by bl_4u:

Ah I see what you mean. I guess there was never a time where travelling through different art styles actually changed anything about the rest of the puzzle, it seemed more like 'proof of concept' or a hidden feature.

To me that's because that was the entire puzzle. You have to be in the right dimension to pass through a barrier, that's it. But the potential was there to combine it with all the other mechanics, portals that need powering, being able to photograph and photocopy portals, maybe take a selfie in a certain dimension, and using that photo warps you to that dimension. The specifics aren't important, the devs clearly know how to introduce mechanics and then combine them with previous ones. They just didn't with the portals.

But I'm way offtopic now. The point is that the 'final boss' of a puzzle game should be your final exam on all the different mechanics.
Not:
-Build a bridge
-Look at a projection to spawn a bridge
-Photocopy a battery
-cross a bridge that appears when you're close
-warp through a fence with a selfie

Those aren't final boss puzzles. Those are just the tutorials to learn the mechanics that we've already done. And then, if you fail to complete the actual puzzles near the end, you have to do those tutorial level puzzles again! Boring, disappointing end to a fantastic game.

[fuggles2k]

You have just listed how it tests you on all the mechanics in the game.

[Delumen]

Originally posted by fuggles2k:

You have just listed how it tests you on all the mechanics in the game.

'Do all the tutorials again back to back' isn't a test. The final couple of puzzles in the timed section here are what's meant by testing your knowledge of all of the mechanics and how they work together. Or they are, if you don't just skip them lmao.

[joridiculous]

Originally posted by Delumen:

Originally posted by fuggles2k:

You have just listed how it tests you on all the mechanics in the game.

'Do all the tutorials again back to back' isn't a test. The final couple of puzzles in the timed section here are what's meant by testing your knowledge of all of the mechanics and how they work together. Or they are, if you don't just skip them lmao.

Talos Principle did this really good.
Showed you a mechanic in the first puzzle, the for the rest of the puzzles you had to figure out how to use the mechanic(s) you just was though, and the levels wasn't too long to make it repetitive and they all had variations of the previous mechanics and the "new" one. (except the damned recording mechanic)