About the religion theme...

[Leon96]

I'll want some mild spoilers here because the theme made me interested (as you can see in my profile).
How's this game regarding religion?
Does it portray religion as something bad?
Or is it just showing the side/perspective of the protagonist?
Does she has double standards between serving religion and falling in love (like in the trailer) or she is just trying to quit religion because "priests are bad and 100% evil" (adding no depth to the story, but adding the author view and not the character view to it)?

in other words:

Does this game makes every single dogma look suffocating by telling the story portraying the whole "being a nun" thing bad, or does the protagonist feels suffocated by it because she is falling in love?

Some games just show the protagonist not understanding and not wanting to be around religion (which is fine) but some games try to make the entire thing look bad. I wanted to know that before buying vs. watching gameplay online only.

Please-- sarcastic/hate speech comments will be reported and steam will likely apply the ban hammer. Keep respect below.

(don't forget the spoiler tags)

[Leon96]

aunt used to be a nun and quit to take care of the business. she was never married... this game really picked my interest. but i'll not get it if it just contains views harmful to my faith.
having said that-- the trailer really looks like something different. as a fan of horror movies i really wanted to understand from some other people what this one is all about before putting cash into it.

[Shrike]

Imagine if we got a piece of media about a nun or a monk that wasn't just another shallow "church bad" tropefest from some smug atheist. Maybe this is some very fresh and subversive take in Russia (doubt it), but from the point of view of a westerner it's just so tired and staid. Disappointing stuff.

[Leon96]

Originally posted by Trailwalker:

Imagine if we got a piece of media about a nun or a monk that wasn't just another shallow "church bad" tropefest from some smug atheist. Maybe this is some very fresh and subversive take in Russia (doubt it), but from the point of view of a westerner it's just so tired and staid. Disappointing stuff.

I wanted to understand what's the game standpoint. Like horror movies, they aren't exactly directed to influence you to be religious by watching a demon fly through the screen, but to show how evil things happen if you avoid the good things the religion teaches you by having prejudice against it.

I've been through 5 different religions (3 non christians - including the antagonist of christianism). It serves no purpose for me to support a game that tries to pull people out of the good of ultimate order. Our emotions usually cause chaos. It's against my religion to support a game that goes against order by portraying it as evil... People are often slaves of their liberty... but i won't get into this matter. I just want someone who played the game to talk about it in a neutral manner. Because i'm trying to see if this game is a 2 sided game or a "religion is bad" kind of game.

[Leon96]

Originally posted by Trailwalker:

Imagine if we got a piece of media about a nun or a monk that wasn't just another shallow "church bad" tropefest from some smug atheist. Maybe this is some very fresh and subversive take in Russia (doubt it), but from the point of view of a westerner it's just so tired and staid. Disappointing stuff.

I've bought religion themed games before, where the priest was a bad person, and I bought media like Call of Juarez -- where the priest shoots literally everyone in the church because they were trying to attack an innocent woman (you should check the mission in that game heheh xD).

What i'm afraid is supporting something that tries to corrupt the whole thing.
I can understand why people hate something as pure order... As it's difficult to shut our emotions up in order to fight for something like family. We go into that hit or run state.
But having games corrupt that state of inner peace is terrible. It has been terrible for me in the past.

I'll just wait for someone who played it to talk about it.

[who user]

This game has clear antireligious message. But very weak one. Religious topics are covered poorly at best. Feels like teenage philosopher who was religious before but now tries to be opposite as possible (atheistic or satanic). It says "dogmas are bad", "doing sins is fine", "religion is a lie" and so on. It ends up with nothing. Literally.

[Datura Plays]

Originally posted by cacodemon:

This game has clear antireligious message. But very weak one. Religious topics are covered poorly at best. Feels like teenage philosopher who was religious before but now tries to be opposite as possible (atheistic or satanic). It says "dogmas are bad", "doing sins is fine", "religion is a lie" and so on. It ends up with nothing. Literally.

So you mean like when a religion says "dogmas are good", "doing sin is bad", "religion is the truth" it has much more weight than "the teenage philosophy"?

[Datura Plays]

Originally posted by Leon96:

Does this game makes every single dogma look suffocating by telling the story portraying the whole "being a nun" thing bad, or does the protagonist feels suffocated by it because she is falling in love?

You are absolutely correct, it's nothing more than the main character is being suffocated by the dogmas. The game never says "being a nun is bad" or calls any religion bad. It's only the experience of her own as an individual.

If you want the exact answer, it's a spoiler though:
Indika grew up in a bicycle shop, so she's well aware of technology and stuff. One of the first encounters of the game: she questions why pumping water considered a sin while it's faster than taking water from a well. If they are standing 15 meters away and there's no possible way the water is different in these two sources, why should she do five rounds of traveling to a well if she could've done this at a pump much faster

[Leon96]

Originally posted by cacodemon:

This game has clear antireligious message. But very weak one. Religious topics are covered poorly at best. Feels like teenage philosopher who was religious before but now tries to be opposite as possible (atheistic or satanic). It says "dogmas are bad", "doing sins is fine", "religion is a lie" and so on. It ends up with nothing. Literally.

I guess i'll just watch it on YT then.
I was saved by the "suffocating dogmas" in the past. As someone who has ADHD, and had severe depression (And I mean the Joker from Joaquim Phoenix like-depression) having those guidelines is proven good for my life.
The game is good to startle curiosity, but it would be better if it shows the priest and nuns trying to save the Main Character from falling into her own desired, and then having the MC turning against them. I'm really through with how bad writers portray those things. Movies like Conjuring 2 are amazing because it doesnt try to shove a dogma down your throat, but doesn't take away the respect out of the holy.

Originally posted by Datura Plays:

Originally posted by Leon96:

Does this game makes every single dogma look suffocating by telling the story portraying the whole "being a nun" thing bad, or does the protagonist feels suffocated by it because she is falling in love?

You are absolutely correct, it's nothing more than the main character is being suffocated by the dogmas. The game never says "being a nun is bad" or calls any religion bad. It's only the experience of her own as an individual.

Dogmas are the main point of religion. A compass or a clock without a pointer is of no use.
That said: the game seems to portray my religion as bad :/

[Leon96]

Thanks guys.
I'll skip this one.

[Leon96]

Originally posted by Datura Plays:

Originally posted by Leon96:

Does this game makes every single dogma look suffocating by telling the story portraying the whole "being a nun" thing bad, or does the protagonist feels suffocated by it because she is falling in love?

You are absolutely correct, it's nothing more than the main character is being suffocated by the dogmas. The game never says "being a nun is bad" or calls any religion bad. It's only the experience of her own as an individual.

If you want the exact answer, it's a spoiler though:
Indika grew up in a bicycle shop, so she's well aware of technology and stuff. One of the first encounters of the game: she questions why pumping water considered a sin while it's faster than taking water from a well. If they are standing 15 meters away and there's no possible way the water is different in these two sources, why should she do five rounds of traveling to a well if she could've done this at a pump much faster

LOL seriously??? that's what the writer thought that was a good thing to put in the game?
seems like the writer just wanted to create derrogatory stories about religion without any real perception of the reality of it.

definitely skipping this. Games about religion should make us think. This one seems to make it more infantile like "there's bad guys and there's the damsel in distress".

When I got older, understanding chaos as a prision (because my own feelings and thoughts about the past) and order as a mean to have freedom (directly dealing with fear and having faith in future) was something that i came to understand.

This one seems to appeal to another audience more fond of romantic stories where the lady wants to be free to fall in love or something like Twilight book series or something. Not for me.

PS.: gonna check the horror parts on YT tho' :S the animation and 3D team did an amazing job despite of the writing.

[Datura Plays]

Originally posted by Leon96:

Dogmas are the main point of religion. A compass or a clock without a pointer is of no use.
That said: the game seems to portray my religion as bad :/

That would've been a thing if she wanted to go to the monastery herself and THEN started to question it.
In this one, it wasn't her choice at first place, she just wasn't meant for this life.

You can replace religion with anything else, like when your parents make you go to a medical institute while you want to be an archaeologist.

It doesn't mean medicine career choice is bad, it's just not for you.

[Datura Plays]

Originally posted by Leon96:

Originally posted by Datura Plays:

You are absolutely correct, it's nothing more than the main character is being suffocated by the dogmas. The game never says "being a nun is bad" or calls any religion bad. It's only the experience of her own as an individual.

If you want the exact answer, it's a spoiler though:
Indika grew up in a bicycle shop, so she's well aware of technology and stuff. One of the first encounters of the game: she questions why pumping water considered a sin while it's faster than taking water from a well. If they are standing 15 meters away and there's no possible way the water is different in these two sources, why should she do five rounds of traveling to a well if she could've done this at a pump much faster

LOL seriously??? that's what the writer thought that was a good thing to put in the game?
seems like the writer just wanted to create derrogatory stories about religion without any real perception of the reality of it.

Oh I have very bad news for you. Dostoevsky wrote Crime And Punishment in 1866 and it's classics.
The game has absolutely the same narrative.

[Leon96]

Originally posted by Datura Plays:

Originally posted by Leon96:

Dogmas are the main point of religion. A compass or a clock without a pointer is of no use.
That said: the game seems to portray my religion as bad :/

That would've been a thing if she wanted to go to the monastery herself and THEN started to question it.
In this one, it wasn't her choice at first place, she just wasn't meant for this life.

You can replace religion with anything else, like when your parents make you go to a medical institute while you want to be an archaeologist.

It doesn't mean medicine career choice is bad, it's just not for you.

oh that is an important information for defending the game.
i'll check the beggining on YT then see if it's worth.

i don't read dostoyevsky xD. the last book i wanna finish before i die is at least the bible. not an avid reader of anything but my work related material.

i'll see what this whole game beggining is about and maybe i'll support the devs. but if the beggining contains those exagerated dogma portrays i'll still skip it.
makes everything order related looks bad.
sometime ago i almost did bad things because i thought my religion was bad... 'till it saved my life as a last resort. it's why i don't support things like that.
someone on the other side may need it like i did but was too afraid of being "controled by evil priests". It's more on a personal level.

thanks again though.

[Datura Plays]

I am actually interested now what your opinion is gonna be, cause personally I see no intent from the developers to degrade any religion.
Hope you enjoy!

[PocketMercy<3]

Dmitry Svetlow, the author of this game, is a person who was very religious, but then lost his faith. He described the nun as a person who is out of place (Small spoiler: She is not a good person ). And the world is like grotesque Russia and its religion.

"Does it portray religion as something bad?" - depends on how you look:
- Mainly, it shows the nuns as grotesque old ladies with rotten teeth.
- Comparing prison to the life of a nun in a convent  
- Books tell about saints as silly persons.
- There is a moment which looks like "masturbation on religion"
- Close to the end you can pray for Karl Marx
etc

And I think the portrait of Karl Marx for a reason here, because as I remember he said "religion is a unique form of reflection of existence" and it fits here, because the world in the game is shown as a cold ,ill and bad place (1984).
Mainly the game shows how bad people are(religious or not):
- Some people use religion as an excuse ,
- others are willing to sell their faith if they don’t get what they want,
- other believe in it because other do it too and this people don't understand what is religion: that's why the nun always asks questions during the game. 

For ex. "masturbation on religion" moment is an example of a person who pretends to be religious. You can keep pretending(masturbating) but it doesn’t make you a good person if you are rotten inside.

So I think it's more about people and current state of Russia. 

People theme: stop be scared of devil, your desires and etc. Be free and don't be scared to be a human. We are not perfect and we all have good and bad sides, So don’t try to separate the devil from God, because without the other there will be no other. And we can say that God and devil it's not mythical creatures or something, it's all inside us and It depends who you listen to and when.

Russia theme: it's this cold , ill world where simple people live in the dirt, while rich people like gods, not appear at all and eat these big fishes, meat and etc behind the scenes.

But only Dmitry Svetlow can say what he wanted to say in this game.