really mixed feelings about this combat

[ste cheese]

animations are smooth, fighting enemies one on one often feels great, i think it gets the souls like style combat correct at first, but the more i play the more it annoys me. sometimes arrows will just hit you mid roll and ranged enemies just suddenly decide to shoot point blank making it really hard to predict. ranged enemies have no consideration for their allies and will just throw firebombs at them whilst in melee with you, very hard to change targets when you need to, lots of little things are building up crossing that line where it stops challenging me and just starts annoying me.

[RobeRonin]

i did find changing targets a bit annoying but ranged units no often bother me i will often take one ranged attack to the face as i bull rush them and with a healing gem i just instantly heal back the small damage they did etc !

[Baron01]

I enjoyed the game initially but the more I played, the more I realized the combat is shallow, boring and very restrictive.

You as a player are given way too few tools to keep the combat interesting. Some shortcomings can be adjusted/tweaked but some might not be as easily fixed. Parry is nigh useless as it does not provide any reasonable benefit for a high risk maneuver. Character movement is way too slow to be used to effectively reposition, engage or disengage enemies. You are forced to dodge most attacks. This forces you to boring patters of "dodge, dodge, dodge, attack once or twice, dodge, dodge, dodge." Lack of jump attack or light and heavy attack leads to boring repeating attack patterns. There is no variability in how to approach combat, the only decision is when to attack and how many times. Even the later decision is diminished as when to attack is determined by enemy opening and how many times is usually reduced to once or twice and dodging away.

This is still an isometric ARPG and not a souls-like. No Rest for the Wicked currently does not have the depth and variability of combat any decent souls-like would have. Can developers make the combat more interesting and variable in a long run? I certainly hope so as I still enjoyed the game a lot and find the idea of merging two different genres into a one very enticing.

[Swimfan]

Originally posted by ste cheese:

animations are smooth, fighting enemies one on one often feels great, i think it gets the souls like style combat correct at first, but the more i play the more it annoys me. sometimes arrows will just hit you mid roll and ranged enemies just suddenly decide to shoot point blank making it really hard to predict. ranged enemies have no consideration for their allies and will just throw firebombs at them whilst in melee with you, very hard to change targets when you need to, lots of little things are building up crossing that line where it stops challenging me and just starts annoying me.

I know what you mean but this is something I guess will be improved over time.

I also find it to be hilarous how
a) you don't know a weapons moveset since you can't equip something and try it out if you don't have the stats
b) some weapons I would like to try have some really strange stat requirements (here's a big mace - better level your intelligence .. what?!)
c) there's no stamina bar, only that barely visible stamina wheel-thingi. How is this oversight possible? So often I have to guess how much stamina I have left.

[Foxtratocaster]

Nothing to do with this, and probably I'll deserve a slap or a clown or something, but is it me or are asians just better at this type of games? I can only think of lords of the fallen for a decent soulslike that isn't asian. Not using any wiki here, just memory.

[John Hayabusa]

Originally posted by Foxtratocaster:

Nothing to do with this, and probably I'll deserve a slap or a clown or something, but is it me or are asians just better at this type of games? I can only think of lords of the fallen for a decent soulslike that isn't asian. Not using any wiki here, just memory.

The Surge 2 was pretty good but yea, not totally wrong

[greyDawn]

Originally posted by Baron01:

Parry is nigh useless as it does not provide any reasonable benefit for a high risk maneuver. Character movement is way too slow to be used to effectively reposition, engage or disengage enemies.

It is funny i finished the game playing as parry medium loaded char. There are rings with overall speed stat (movement + attack speed combined, and they stack) and i was fast as f. Also i got few items with damage on parry (also you can socket gloves with it, like 40 elemental dmg with single gem) i was doing like 150-200 dmg back on parry. Also parry was insta fill focus bar for me --> i was able to cast sword abilities all the time. I admit i was not amused with combat too, but once i reached lvl 21 and was able to equip speed rings, combat changed dramatically for me.

[ひちみこ・ハスキア]

Originally posted by Foxtratocaster:

Nothing to do with this, and probably I'll deserve a slap or a clown or something, but is it me or are asians just better at this type of games? I can only think of lords of the fallen for a decent soulslike that isn't asian. Not using any wiki here, just memory.

salt and sanctuary is example of very good no traditional soulslike

[Foxtratocaster]

Originally posted by Parry Jackson:

Originally posted by Foxtratocaster:

Nothing to do with this, and probably I'll deserve a slap or a clown or something, but is it me or are asians just better at this type of games? I can only think of lords of the fallen for a decent soulslike that isn't asian. Not using any wiki here, just memory.

The Surge 2 was pretty good but yea, not totally wrong :lunar2019laughingpig:

It passed my mind, more than decent game that one. Hopefully they'll carry that on eventually.

[Ashviar]

Originally posted by Parry Jackson:

Originally posted by Baron01:

I enjoyed the game initially but the more I played, the more I realized the combat is shallow, boring and very restrictive.

You as a player are given way too few tools to keep the combat interesting. Some shortcomings can be adjusted/tweaked but some might not be as easily fixed. Parry is nigh useless as it does not provide any reasonable benefit for a high risk maneuver. Character movement is way too slow to be used to effectively reposition, engage or disengage enemies. You are forced to dodge most attacks. This forces you to boring patters of "dodge, dodge, dodge, attack once or twice, dodge, dodge, dodge." Lack of jump attack or light and heavy attack leads to boring repeating attack patterns. There is no variability in how to approach combat, the only decision is when to attack and how many times. Even the later decision is diminished as when to attack is determined by enemy opening and how many times is usually reduced to once or twice and dodging away.

This is still an isometric ARPG and not a souls-like. No Rest for the Wicked currently does not have the depth and variability of combat any decent souls-like would have. Can developers make the combat more interesting and variable in a long run? I certainly hope so as I still enjoyed the game a lot and find the idea of merging two different genres into a one very enticing.

Nioh 2 does the merging of Diablo and Soulslike just perfect, amazing depth and moment to moment feel. And i think it could easily be translated to the full isometric view. It also has a extremely hard Gauntlet mode.

I hope Team Ninja does Nioh 3 one day, i liked their latest games but they don't come close to Nioh 2 in variety and depth.

It's a game these devs should look take a much closer look at.

I disagree, I'd take Nioh without the Diablo loot any day. Same for Wo Long and its one of the reasons I didn't look much at Rise of Ronin. Picking up dozens of the same weapon/armor, eyeballing random affixes that don't feel massively impactful. It honestly adds nothing to the game. Nioh works because of great movesets for the weapon types, the stance system, and the skill trees offering a level of customization you don't see in alot of Souls style games.

[John Hayabusa]

Originally posted by Ashviar:

Originally posted by Parry Jackson:

Nioh 2 does the merging of Diablo and Soulslike just perfect, amazing depth and moment to moment feel. And i think it could easily be translated to the full isometric view. It also has a extremely hard Gauntlet mode.

I hope Team Ninja does Nioh 3 one day, i liked their latest games but they don't come close to Nioh 2 in variety and depth.

It's a game these devs should look take a much closer look at.

I disagree, I'd take Nioh without the Diablo loot any day. Same for Wo Long and its one of the reasons I didn't look much at Rise of Ronin. Picking up dozens of the same weapon/armor, eyeballing random affixes that don't feel massively impactful. It honestly adds nothing to the game. Nioh works because of great movesets for the weapon types, the stance system, and the skill trees offering a level of customization you don't see in alot of Souls style games.

Nioh would be great even without the loot, i would not disagree. And it is somewhat tedious with how the loot inspection works, i admit. I did word it badly, the game is not perfect, i just think it strikes a very good balance between impact of gear, upgrade paths via skill trees and player agency.

i also dont want the Moon devs to do a carbon copy of Nioh, they are doing a great job of creating their own ideas, i just think its a great game to learn from, which i bet they already do.
It's just some of the flaws (subjective) i notice here, are solved well in Nioh 2, while in No Rest irs till a bit ll over the place.

[dustin1280]

I have been learning to deal with the timing of ranged attacks in this game, but they seem to track a little too much. It doesn't break the game for me, but it is annoying...

[Father Goose]

I'm having the exact experience as the OP, and I think the frustrating part is that it sounds like people with 20+ hours have uncorked enough gear modification to basically neutralize all of these complaints. Stam stops being an issue, Focus is plentiful, and the game really opens up.

I understand starting an RPG slow, but it doesn't have to be THIS slow, imo.

[Hairy Mouse]

Originally posted by Baron01:

I enjoyed the game initially but the more I played, the more I realized the combat is shallow, boring and very restrictive.

You as a player are given way too few tools to keep the combat interesting. Some shortcomings can be adjusted/tweaked but some might not be as easily fixed. Parry is nigh useless as it does not provide any reasonable benefit for a high risk maneuver. Character movement is way too slow to be used to effectively reposition, engage or disengage enemies. You are forced to dodge most attacks. This forces you to boring patters of "dodge, dodge, dodge, attack once or twice, dodge, dodge, dodge." Lack of jump attack or light and heavy attack leads to boring repeating attack patterns. There is no variability in how to approach combat, the only decision is when to attack and how many times. Even the later decision is diminished as when to attack is determined by enemy opening and how many times is usually reduced to once or twice and dodging away.

This is still an isometric ARPG and not a souls-like. No Rest for the Wicked currently does not have the depth and variability of combat any decent souls-like would have. Can developers make the combat more interesting and variable in a long run? I certainly hope so as I still enjoyed the game a lot and find the idea of merging two different genres into a one very enticing.

Well, this IS an "Early Access" game... It's more like the "platform" the game will be built on. It's more developed and polished than the average EA game, for sure, but it's not "done" yet. Combat and gameplay mechanics are the basic feel the game will have, but with player guidance and feedback, the game will grow and improve.

I mean, I think it's better not to overcomplicate things with an EA game, and waste valuable time and resources. Instead of complex systems that may be unfamiliar or not well recieved, it's better to go with something a bit more basic and generic, which players will be familar with. Feedback can shape and mold the stuff into something very developed and well liked, and it's better to build on it than tear it back down to the foundation and redevelop. Kinda like vanilla ice cream. It's the best because its simple, and and you can add whatever you want until its completely different. If you have peanut butter rocky road, with cream and a cherry already on it, then there's not much you can change, short of just throwing it out and starting over.

[Young Clancey]

Originally posted by Foxtratocaster:

Nothing to do with this, and probably I'll deserve a slap or a clown or something, but is it me or are asians just better at this type of games? I can only think of lords of the fallen for a decent soulslike that isn't asian. Not using any wiki here, just memory.

At first I thought you meant better at playing them. I was like that's pretty spicy lol

[zumwaltwood]

Currently, this early Alpha phase in development of the game, the battle system is lacking in only that you can only swing a sword 2 times before your to tired to swing again, as you level up and add more to your stats, such as stamina, you can gain an extra swing. Around level 12 you can cleanly swing 3 times with enough points pumped into stamina, before then you hear that lovely low swish of "denied" horror to your ears as the enemy doesn't have this stamina restriction that you do. They get 3 swings, respite for 2 seconds, 3 more swings, while your stuck with 2 swings, respite 4 seconds, 1 swing. Forget magic, with the staff and starting attributes, you can cast 1 fireball and done, you can't battle close up with magic beyond that first fireball cast, the enemy won't let you. If the players had double what they have now as far as stamina and double regen rate, that could balance out the battles where the players can attack as much as the enemies.

Also, dodge, parry and rebuke need more work, you should be able to rebuke an enemy with a power swing, break their attack, just like they can break your attack with a rebuke or power swing, just more needed balance I think. So far so good though, at least they gave us the ability to restart on a new realm over and over, that has helped a ton, doubt anyone actually beat the first boss before the city on the original realm they started with, no way to beat that thing by level 3, not with this battle dynamic