Early Game Sucks

[Kraig]

The early game just sucks.

Main contributors:
1) This is a new style of game that makes heavy use of 3D aspects and gives is a locked 2D camera.
2) The initial storm environment makes it very difficult to see/understand
3) Significant animation timings that take a lot of getting used to
4) Locked animations and input queue makes it seem like the game is delayed
5) The enemy types are quite skilled for initial mobs


As a new player, you are still figuring out how to move, see (btw ♥♥♥♥ is too dark at the start!), interact and point their weapons in the right direction, let alone fight effectively. This is a unique experience and the prologue is not enough of an introduction to the systems, environment and especially to combat. The initial enemies (outside of crabs) are actually skilled and I don't think it makes a good new player impression and will cause a lot of churn as people just say "Nope" and move on.


Which is sad, because it's an awesome game! Once you get to the mid-game pretty much everyone has a good time. Once you learn how to navigate multiple enemies, the next hurdle only comes when facing the next major bosses. Everything else feels fair once you get used to the controls and interaction points.

The Difficulty ramp here is off.

For those that disagree try to recall your initial experiences without the context you have now. Also note that I've got more than 75 hours played, over 100G on my characters, can beat EK with my eyes closed and almost have him beat with a level 1 character. I think the overall difficulty is fine, but the early game just sucks. My goal is to ease the steepness for beginning players so that more people enjoy where the game gets really good.

Edit: Removed the hard lock/Soft lock. I must have missed the small orange dot the first time around. I can't believe I went 75 hours without knowing this. Although it made it that much more difficult I suppose. ^_^

[SecretPotato]

This game sucked me in. I like everything it has going so far and the updated post from the CEO on X posting what needs wants and could be done excited to see where this leads. He did plan a 5-10yrs dev cycle on this game so shows they are commented.
On that yes the beginning was empty could be revamp to give off a good experience. Better fulfilled tutorial would help quite a bit.

[HammerJuice *DEUS VULT*]

What do you mean by hard lock? you can lock onto enemies.

[Kondaru]

Beginning of NRftW seems much easier to me when compared to my first Dark Souls experience. Prologue serves as quite a good tutorial, and there should be little problem with understanding basic game mechanics after going through it.

Also, the premise of the game is that it is hard, that there are no trash mobs (every mob can kill You, unlike in Diablo-like games), and that You are expected to find Your own approach to the game / git gud (e.g. one of the comments here was that You can spam the final boss with bombs).

I would really hate for the game to drop the premise - after all, there are heaps of Diablo-likes, but relatively few Souls-likes.

[Kraig]

The difficulty is fine for the later 75% of the game.

It doesn't need to start so difficult before you learn how to control your character in the first 10-25% of the game.

[deadbus]

Originally posted by Kondaru:

Beginning of NRftW seems much easier to me when compared to my first Dark Souls experience. Prologue serves as quite a good tutorial, and there should be little problem with understanding basic game mechanics after going through it.

Also, the premise of the game is that it is hard, that there are no trash mobs (every mob can kill You, unlike in Diablo-like games), and that You are expected to find Your own approach to the game / git gud (e.g. one of the comments here was that You can spam the final boss with bombs).

I would really hate for the game to drop the premise - after all, there are heaps of Diablo-likes, but relatively few Souls-likes.

Yeah yeah, you have to experience bad controls, enemies attacking off-screen. If this beach was right after start instead of ship, people at least would have time to refund this game.

[marmih]

I don't know, I just deleted all my previous saves after I beat Echo Knight to start the game completely over fresh and I'm enjoying it a lot. I think the game gives you a pretty great tutorial, especially if you count everything until reaching Sacrament for the first time as a tutorial. It teaches you the movement and several encounters with 2+ enemies, teaches you how to make food, how and when to climb and sidle etc. One of the best tutorials I've experienced tbh. The ship prologue gives you the basics, but the tutorial doesn't really stop once you get to the shore and you encounter pretty much all types of enemies in that first hour so you know how to deal with the later levelled up enemies once you meet them.

[Kondaru]

It probably depends on Your build and equipment, but I would actually say that the later part of the game becomes a bit too easy.

The first part is where You are actually having fun with surviving and outsmarting Your enemies rather than taking them head on.

[AtlasRedux]

Originally posted by Kondaru:

It probably depends on Your build and equipment, but I would actually say that the later part of the game becomes a bit too easy.

The first part is where You are actually having fun with surviving and outsmarting Your enemies rather than taking them head on.

This. Unless you rush through the story only. And you're basically immortal when you have geared up from the Crucible (with the exception of the boss there).

[@Ixxmantisxxl]

Camera Control would make this game better than anything else on the market right now, Omfg. I always felt it was one of the best features Grim Dawn went with, Being able to survey your surroundings and zoom in and out and check on things, MmmMmMm...

[phroZac]

Originally posted by Kraig:

The early game just sucks.

Main contributors:
1) This is a new style of game that makes heavy use of 3D aspects and gives is a locked 2D camera.
2) There is no hard lock onto enemies, and soft target lock is just the closest
3) Significant animation timings that take a lot of getting used to
4) Locked animations and input queue makes it seem like the game is delayed
5) The enemy types are quite skilled for initial mobs

1. It's not *really* a new style of game. Any SoulsBorne fan will feel right at home with the combat after a short time. If it had a 3d camera, it'd be Dark Souls. If anything, the locked camera should make things easier since you no longer have to manage it.

2. The lockon does need a bit of work. It's not as frustrating as Lords of the Fallen was at least but it hasn't been that big an issue with me and I've also put in over 100hrs into the game and have beaten EK several times.

3. True. I love it.

4. This is where the Git Gud happens. The beach is a great place to familiarize yourself with how combat works. There are also 2 whispers a stone's throw away, so even if you die early on, there's essentially no punishment for failure at this point.

5. I didn't experience this since I'm pretty dialed into Soulslikes but there will undoubtedly be people who can't handle it and will quit. That's a shame. But it's the same for Elden Ring and the entire SoulsBorne series that came before it, and it worked for them. I think it tells players exactly what to expect and will cull the weak lol.

I think the game has legs though and word of mouth will be positive and just like with many when it came to Souls, their curiosity may draw them back and possibly turn them into believers.

[Crylz]

Im pretty sure you were one of the people who tunnel visioned on claymore. Literally fists and shield was baby mode till the city, if you got one handed sword or dagger, you were set. Claymore, especially before 1st update fix would only let you do 2 swings and dip into red stamina, even after pumping 3 levels worth of stamina in it would result in 3 swings and dodge. Changing to fists made encounters laughably easy.

And by the sound of it you are playing arpg for the first time. Lock system has toggle, so you can adjust it as you fight, attack animations is a thing in every game, enemy variety helps with more interesting and diverse combat and thank god it ain't made like mmorpg where first 6 hours or so enemies get concussion or straight up jump to kill themselves out of fear ppl might leave the moment they feel any type of resistance.

Not every game is for everyone, game made for everyone is made for none. Games that keep appeasing to entry level casuals that turn on game and call it easy, boring is hilarious to me. After everyone gets some getting used to it they pop off.

[HighLanderPony]

"Dw it'll turn into an actual game 50+ hours in and you might even have some fun then." - the average fan coper

[AtlasRedux]

Originally posted by HighLanderPony:

"Dw it'll turn into an actual game 50+ hours in and you might even have some fun then." - the average fan coper

No one said that. First of all, there isn't 50 hours of content. Second, it's only the FIRST HOUR or so that is somewhat hard if you don't know what you're doing. I personally didn't have any issues. The difficulty continues being the same all the way if you rush, or you can overlevel and overgear yourself and make it stupid easy.
I will again compare it to Dark Souls:
The first boss is a joke compared to Dark Souls. Your dodging and parrying is a lot easier.
For instance, parry timing is basically "when enemy lands attack, parry". There is no build up parry animation on your side, unlike other games. It's stupid easy to time. "BIG ENEMY HIT, I ROLL OR PARRY WHEN ABOUT TO HIT"
That is it. That is all there is to it. I do not get that people have issues with it. I am a 44 year old with severe POTS and brain damage and have awful reaction times (hence I no longer can play FPS games, despite being a pro player in C&C Renegade once upon a time). Yet I had zero issues with getting these timings down. Enemies are for the most part slow and telegraph their moves years ahead.

[Kraig]

Originally posted by Crylz:

Im pretty sure you were one of the people who tunnel visioned on claymore. Literally fists and shield was baby mode till the city, if you got one handed sword or dagger, you were set. Claymore, especially before 1st update fix would only let you do 2 swings and dip into red stamina, even after pumping 3 levels worth of stamina in it would result in 3 swings and dodge. Changing to fists made encounters laughably easy.

And by the sound of it you are playing arpg for the first time. Lock system has toggle, so you can adjust it as you fight, attack animations is a thing in every game, enemy variety helps with more interesting and diverse combat and thank god it ain't made like mmorpg where first 6 hours or so enemies get concussion or straight up jump to kill themselves out of fear ppl might leave the moment they feel any type of resistance.

Not every game is for everyone, game made for everyone is made for none. Games that keep appeasing to entry level casuals that turn on game and call it easy, boring is hilarious to me. After everyone gets some getting used to it they pop off.

You must not have read my last paragraph. I personally got through the early game just fine. But it wasn't difficult in a satisfying way (at least until you get used to the systems), it was difficult in a frustrating experience. I'm saying this to help the game attract a larger audience, because it deserves it.

[😒]

They just need to do what they can to make the difficulty ramp up rather than smack into a wall or massive hill, only to level out or go downhill once you are over that.