"set to reinvent the (Action RPG) genre" bold claim

[Quidjibo2021]

I want to know why Moon studios thinks their next game will "reinvent" the Action RPG genre when their only two games (the same IP, Ori) played it so safe? The trailer art and the gameplay looks exactly like a Blizzard title.

Product description: "From Moon Studios, the award-winning developers of Ori and the Blind Forest and Ori and the Will of the Wisps comes No Rest for the Wicked, a visceral, precision Action RPG set to reinvent the genre."

[[LWT]Karpiu]

Publicado originalmente por Psykrom:

No clue what you waffles talk about. Only two weeks to go for the announced news update.

About "No Rest for the Wicked" video game, you ?

[Psykrom]

Newest footage is out since a day, doesn't feel like proper darksouls game, nor a proper ARPG.

At this point in time I cannot say if there will be more enemies, to get a proper hack'n slash feel, or even how much loot and character progression will matter.
They have basically shown nothing that would solidify such grounds.

They used some foods to restore health, a fireplace and bomb throw consumables.
The burning sword at the end was most likely another sort of consumable.

Blocking and dodge mechanics, we got dodge in other well rounded ARPG's like Grim Dawn now too, but no active blocking for the most part in any of them.

Skyrim has all of that too, but from my point of view it isn't a proper ARPG either, but it does what it does well, thanks to the refinement from the best modding community out there.

At this point in time, I don't feel this can be compared with D2R, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch and so forth, in the sense that it is simply in a different genre.
Which is what they wanted to achieve I guess.
I will watch and see if it turns out to be my cup of tea.

[[LWT]Karpiu]

Publicado originalmente por Psykrom:

Newest footage is out since a day, doesn't feel like proper darksouls game, nor a proper ARPG.

At this point in time I cannot say if there will be more enemies, to get a proper hack'n slash feel, or even how much loot and character progression will matter.
They have basically shown nothing that would solidify such grounds.

They used some foods to restore health, a fireplace and bomb throw consumables.
The burning sword at the end was most likely another sort of consumable.

Blocking and dodge mechanics, we got dodge in other well rounded ARPG's like Grim Dawn now too, but no active blocking for the most part in any of them.

Skyrim has all of that too, but from my point of view it isn't a proper ARPG either, but it does what it does well, thanks to the refinement from the best modding community out there.

At this point in time, I don't feel this can be compared with D2R, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch and so forth, in the sense that it is simply in a different genre.
Which is what they wanted to achieve I guess.
I will watch and see if it turns out to be my cup of tea.

It absolutely isn't any close to an ARPG (as in diablo-like hack'n'slash like Diablo or PoE, like they've previously claimed they're coming after), nor does it look like it's reinventing anything. That consumable cooking on fire stuff is straight out of a soulslike and this will be a soulslike with some minor RPG and platformer elements. No clue how the dev(s) thought it would be a good idea to mention PoE and Diablo and reinventing the genre while developing a game that is not even in the same genre as those games, unless we call ARPGs everything from Witcher to Diablo/PoE to any ACTION game with RPG elements. But then why mention diablo-likes at all anyway ? :D

[Psykrom]

At this point I dunno either. If they deliver news on march first, then the wait ain't too long. Until then I will be playing release of Last Epoch anyway, so the wait won't hurt my cravings.

[[LWT]Karpiu]

Publicado originalmente por Psykrom:

At this point I dunno either. If they deliver news on march first, then the wait ain't too long. Until then I will be playing release of Last Epoch anyway, so the wait won't hurt my cravings.

I am definitely not hyped at all after seeing these two trailers (especially the last one with boss fight, cooking etc.), because it turned out to be a different genre i'm interested in, but i will still check out what they have to show in March. Same with LE, i've been waiting for the 1.0 since the Rogue update to play the full game and will play only LE when it releases, cause D4 is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and PoE 2 is months away.

[FaZe AlphA]

More power to devs with ambition and passion. I'm excited to see what they deliver.

[Quidjibo2021]

Publicado originalmente por thomasmahler:

I'm not sure why you think that we played it so safe with Ori?

How many other Metroidvanias do you see on the market where platforming takes the center stage? That's what we set out to do and I think we accomplished our goal quite well. And it wasn't at all a foregone conclusion that this genre mix would even work, it certainly gave me many sleepless nights during development.

You haven't seen much gameplay yet in our TGA Teaser and we see that people already compare No Rest for the Wicked to Diablo and Dark Souls, but we're neither Diablo, nor Dark Souls. We certainly take elements from all those games and some others on top and are trying to create something entirely new out of that, which I'd say is quite refreshing to see since most top-down ARPGs on the market right now are basically 'Diablo-likes' and I feel like the genre has stagnated for a while, which is what we're trying to solve.

Ok, let's start with a positive then: A lot of Diablo-likes (top-down ARPGs) focus too much on loot. If you can make trash loot less of a distraction from (or remove it entirely from) adventuring, combat, and discovering secrets, that will be good for your game and good for the genre. I hope you do succeed in unending the genre.

Ori had a strong premise and platforming mechanics, but your storytelling was too safe: You couldn't even let Naru, the parent figure who dies of STARVATION to motivate our adventure, stay dead at the end of the story. So when you say you're going to "upend" a genre, I'm skeptical, since you won't even commit to death in the stories you tell revolving around life and death.

I guess there's no reason it has to be that way again...I just think you should have trusted your audience to accept loss as part of life and that video-game story. Please trust your audience to accept bittersweet endings

[Quidjibo2021]

Publicado originalmente por Quarantine:

Lol the haters....guys with less than 15 games on their Steam profile. Enough said.

There are 105 games on my profile, where are you looking?

[thomasmahler]

Publicado originalmente por Quidjibo2021:

Ok, let's start with a positive then: A lot of Diablo-likes (top-down ARPGs) focus too much on loot. If you can make trash loot less of a distraction from (or remove it entirely from) adventuring, combat, and discovering secrets, that will be good for your game and good for the genre. I hope you do succeed in unending the genre.

Ori had a strong premise and platforming mechanics, but your storytelling was too safe: You couldn't even let Naru, the parent figure who dies of STARVATION to motivate our adventure, stay dead at the end of the story. So when you say you're going to "upend" a genre, I'm skeptical, since you won't even commit to death in the stories you tell revolving around life and death.

I guess there's no reason it has to be that way again...I just think you should have trusted your audience to accept loss as part of life and that video-game story. Please trust your audience to accept bittersweet endings

I very much agree with you.

Here's what happened there:

I wrote the ending to Blind Forest fairly early on. I always wanted to end on the two mothers looking at each other with the one realizing what she's done through the eyes of the other - and that was too good of an ending to let death get in the way of that. That's why Naru was brought back to life.

I also wanted to kill Ku in Wisps forever, but the team pleaded with me for months until I finally relented. I do still think she should've died and never come back, but sometimes I lose battles in the team and have to let people go through with stuff, even if I think it's the wrong direction to take.

I think in many ways this was also due to us having told a fairly fantastical story. We will not do that in No Rest for the Wicked: Any character that dies will be dead forever, pinky promise :)

And hey, for Wisps we did have a bittersweet ending - which most people loved. But the amount of ♥♥♥♥ I got from the internet for doing what we did to Ori was... not pleasant, lol.

So yeah, I very much hear you and I will very much keep this in mind for No Rest for the Wicked as well :)

[xxman]

Publicado originalmente por Quidjibo2021:

Publicado originalmente por thomasmahler:

I'm not sure why you think that we played it so safe with Ori?

How many other Metroidvanias do you see on the market where platforming takes the center stage? That's what we set out to do and I think we accomplished our goal quite well. And it wasn't at all a foregone conclusion that this genre mix would even work, it certainly gave me many sleepless nights during development.

You haven't seen much gameplay yet in our TGA Teaser and we see that people already compare No Rest for the Wicked to Diablo and Dark Souls, but we're neither Diablo, nor Dark Souls. We certainly take elements from all those games and some others on top and are trying to create something entirely new out of that, which I'd say is quite refreshing to see since most top-down ARPGs on the market right now are basically 'Diablo-likes' and I feel like the genre has stagnated for a while, which is what we're trying to solve.

Ok, let's start with a positive then: A lot of Diablo-likes (top-down ARPGs) focus too much on loot. If you can make trash loot less of a distraction from (or remove it entirely from) adventuring, combat, and discovering secrets, that will be good for your game and good for the genre. I hope you do succeed in unending the genre.

Ori had a strong premise and platforming mechanics, but your storytelling was too safe: You couldn't even let Naru, the parent figure who dies of STARVATION to motivate our adventure, stay dead at the end of the story. So when you say you're going to "upend" a genre, I'm skeptical, since you won't even commit to death in the stories you tell revolving around life and death.

I guess there's no reason it has to be that way again...I just think you should have trusted your audience to accept loss as part of life and that video-game story. Please trust your audience to accept bittersweet endings

Too safe? Ori dies in the first game how is that too safe? This is a game targeted to children If anything it takes alot of risk with a story targeted to kids.

[Quidjibo2021]

Publicado originalmente por thomasmahler:

Publicado originalmente por Quidjibo2021:

Ok, let's start with a positive then: A lot of Diablo-likes (top-down ARPGs) focus too much on loot. If you can make trash loot less of a distraction from (or remove it entirely from) adventuring, combat, and discovering secrets, that will be good for your game and good for the genre. I hope you do succeed in unending the genre.

Ori had a strong premise and platforming mechanics, but your storytelling was too safe: You couldn't even let Naru, the parent figure who dies of STARVATION to motivate our adventure, stay dead at the end of the story. So when you say you're going to "upend" a genre, I'm skeptical, since you won't even commit to death in the stories you tell revolving around life and death.

I guess there's no reason it has to be that way again...I just think you should have trusted your audience to accept loss as part of life and that video-game story. Please trust your audience to accept bittersweet endings

I very much agree with you.

Here's what happened there:

I wrote the ending to Blind Forest fairly early on. I always wanted to end on the two mothers looking at each other with the one realizing what she's done through the eyes of the other - and that was too good of an ending to let death get in the way of that. That's why Naru was brought back to life.

I also wanted to kill Ku in Wisps forever, but the team pleaded with me for months until I finally relented. I do still think she should've died and never come back, but sometimes I lose battles in the team and have to let people go through with stuff, even if I think it's the wrong direction to take.

I think in many ways this was also due to us having told a fairly fantastical story. We will not do that in No Rest for the Wicked: Any character that dies will be dead forever, pinky promise :)

And hey, for Wisps we did have a bittersweet ending - which most people loved. But the amount of ♥♥♥♥ I got from the internet for doing what we did to Ori was... not pleasant, lol.

So yeah, I very much hear you and I will very much keep this in mind for No Rest for the Wicked as well :)

Lol, consider me converted. I'm looking forward to your game.