My opinions after nearly completing first act

[Winterson]

I must say, the suprise was pleasant.

Yes, it has spiritual following of Hexen and Heretic - and big love letter, like it or not.

In the end the lack of map isn´t that bad - if you couldn´t use your own notes, it would be useless anyway. The map itself consists mostly of lines and spaces so it is navigable.
But prepare yourself to get headache to remember where to go and what to do or what you missed.

At least the first hub is glorious! I´ve spent a lot of time and if the game would be shorter in such detail and this exact surroundings (with added locations, quests, secrets), I would be happy man.

I´m playing on second difficulty level and let me tell you - enemies will shred you to pieces if you are not carefull. I was quite suprised how much challenge it offers.

If I compare weapons to any of the spirutual ancestors, the power is same. Yes, really, I played a bit and enemies are just sponges. Weapons in Graven are powerfull...but a bit boring. It´s not fun to fight with them and this is probably why others don´t like them.
Enemy weakness to certain types is nice touch! My favourite is that "shotgun" xBow after upgrade and ballista. Those are fun to play with! Melee is simply melee.

And boy, you will die and die and die again. The enemies are much mobile than you are. That means that you can´t do what they are doing. And some of them are indeed walking tanks without flinching. So if you are spoiled (as I am) by speed and mobility of buffed up cheetah - nope, not here!

So no, it´s not shooter nor close combat.

Ever heard about King´s Quest 8? Well, if you are thinking about getting this game, look at it first. It´s action adventure with mediocre combat, but cool ideas with tons of puzzles. And quite basic story. But Graven is without leveling, just with getting new and new equipment with possibility of limited upgrade.

If you are not into this, Graven is very bad bet, you will be annoyed and it will be letdown.

And yes, I was a bit "meh" at the start but after a while I really appreciated the ideas and aesthetics.

[swampshark]

I played Kings Quest 8 and liked it a lot despite the jank.
Wait until you finished Graven, it has a few critical problems, i loved Act1, already played a lot of it in EA but the fun-curve flows downhill from this point on, sadly.
I went from "thumbs up with a big grin" to "ok that`s strange, I hope this does not get worse" to "omg I`m pissed, they can`t be serious".
I would recommend everyone to wait for patches.

[Winterson]

Originally posted by swampshark:

I played Kings Quest 8 and liked it a lot despite the jank.
Wait until you finished Graven, it has a few critical problems, i loved Act1, already played a lot of it in EA but the fun-curve flows downhill from this point on, sadly.
I went from "thumbs up with a big grin" to "ok that`s strange, I hope this does not get worse" to "omg I`m pissed, they can`t be serious".
I would recommend everyone to wait for patches.

I had enough time to ponder if to get Graven or not (so I knew about the spiraling down quality)...sooo this will be on me for this poor decision.

Yes, exactly! KQ8 is one of my most favourite games till this day. In some aspects has with Graven similiar features (to make it easier what to expect from it).

You are describing my thought about Baldurs Gate 1 and 3. First two acts were fun, the ending was terrible! I´m affraid this jank is in most games nowadays :/ And it was, if we put down our pink glasses :)

[swampshark]

And it`s a shame, cause it does many things that hit me in the right spot.
I´m not a person that hates on games, a rarely vote anything down, but progress stoppers after a 3/4 way through is were I draw the line.
I can live with jank to a degree, getting stuck somewhere, or things not really finished .. like birds sitting in the air etc.
KQ8 was way ahead of it`s time, many games borrowed from it, the technology was not there yet.
Now we have the technology and ... you know :D

[Winterson]

Originally posted by swampshark:

And it`s a shame, cause it does many things that hit me in the right spot.
I´m not a person that hates on games, a rarely vote anything down, but progress stoppers after a 3/4 way through is were I draw the line.
I can live with jank to a degree, getting stuck somewhere, or things not really finished .. like birds sitting in the air etc.
KQ8 was way ahead of it`s time, many games borrowed from it, the technology was not there yet.
Now we have the technology and ... you know :D

I´m quite a opposite, to be honest - if somebody was slacking and asking full price or was flat out lying...oooh, there will be plenty of hate.

But I don´t think I will vote down Graven. Devs are trying their best, something obviously went wrong during the development and few of things were...worse decision. Like combat is underbaked, while puzzles and secrets are good (not the shuffle puzzle or those damn revolving puzzles - those are the worst they could come with!). And the patching goes quite well, even though I don´t know if some things are working.

Now we have technology and it mostly hinders us to get good games xD

[swampshark]

{Now we have technology and it mostly hinders us to get good games xD}
Thank`s for that :D
The Library puzzle was annoying, pillar was ok ... there will be another "fun-one" which I don`t want to spoil.
But I have to say that the rewards were pretty cool.
And yes I hope they can fix these issues asap, there was already a patch and they have a lot of issues noted, their mod here is also friendly and cares.

[Bankai9212]

The game lacked the scope or focus hence the 1.0 ended up as it is. Level design is the only good thing about the game.

[Winterson]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

The game lacked the scope or focus hence the 1.0 ended up as it is. Level design is the only good thing about the game.

Jack of all trades, I would say.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Winterson:

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

The game lacked the scope or focus hence the 1.0 ended up as it is. Level design is the only good thing about the game.

Jack of all trades, I would say.

If it was then most systems would be at most solid. Combat, balance, certain puzzles and navigation aren’t handled well even from the first act. Because it didn’t know what type of game it was going for.

[Winterson]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Originally posted by Winterson:

Jack of all trades, I would say.

If it was then most systems would be at most solid. Combat, balance, certain puzzles and navigation aren’t handled well even from the first act. Because it didn’t know what type of game it was going for.

Yeah, you can see the idea behind it, but have feeling something is missing at the same time.

Exploration - map + notes are really necessary if you want to make a good exploration game.

Combat - the basics are there, but you can´t feel the weight of the combat in the slightest. At least the ranged weapons are saving grace at least a bit.

Puzzles - environmental puzzles would be nice with all that water freezing, melting etc.
and not puzzles like real puzzles. Zelda : Tears of the kingdom has one of the best and enjoyfull puzzles which use gravitation, weight and manipulation. Graven is capable of that too.

Still, they made the best out of it with the little they had.

[normalredux]

Same, I didn't quite know what to expect after seeing some reviews, but I was pleasantly surprised.
It has some design flaws though and it really doesn't feel like there's much challenge.
I spent most of my time figuring out how to solve puzzles and progress because weapons and spells are so overpowered that combat usually ends before it even begins, and I'm playing on the highest difficulty.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by normalredux:

Same, I didn't quite know what to expect after seeing some reviews, but I was pleasantly surprised.
It has some design flaws though and it really doesn't feel like there's much challenge.
I spent most of my time figuring out how to solve puzzles and progress because weapons and spells are so overpowered that combat usually ends before it even begins, and I'm playing on the highest difficulty.

It only effects enemy numbers and spawns not damage.

[Winterson]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Originally posted by normalredux:

Same, I didn't quite know what to expect after seeing some reviews, but I was pleasantly surprised.
It has some design flaws though and it really doesn't feel like there's much challenge.
I spent most of my time figuring out how to solve puzzles and progress because weapons and spells are so overpowered that combat usually ends before it even begins, and I'm playing on the highest difficulty.

It only effects enemy numbers and spawns not damage.

So that´s why they hit like truck even on lower difficulty!

[normalredux]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

It only effects enemy numbers and spawns not damage.

It almost feels like an inverse scale because it doesn't matter if you face 2 or 12,000 skeletons. They die all the same. More enemies just drop more loot.

[Winterson]

Originally posted by normalredux:

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

It only effects enemy numbers and spawns not damage.

It almost feels like an inverse scale because it doesn't matter if you face 2 or 12,000 skeletons. They die all the same. More enemies just drop more loot.

Good point, you can upgrade quicker then (or lose gold).

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by normalredux:

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

It only effects enemy numbers and spawns not damage.

It almost feels like an inverse scale because it doesn't matter if you face 2 or 12,000 skeletons. They die all the same. More enemies just drop more loot.

I mean look at other design choices and tell me if they make any more sense.