Are there really no consequences for dying?

[Bosh]

That's kind of boring.

[StoneofTriumph]

Publicado originalmente por artesva:

Nope, almost all metroidvanias are sort of soulslike, with the same bonfire system, fighting system (iframe dodge, then attack, and so on) and ''challenging but fair'' gameplay without difficulty settings - what you called ''kinda hard''.

Also almost all of them have grimdark setting and specific nonstraight way of telling the story.

Totality of those atributes makes them classic soulslike, and any person, who plays souls games, will instantly recognize the same game, but in 2D and specific exploration model.
Lilies is not an exception here at all.

And this game has currency - blight, it's just autolevels your character.
You could lose at least something on death and then retrieve.

It's funny because the Igavania games (Symphony of the Night, Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, Order of Ecclesia)- the games that gave us the term Metroidvania in the first place- have almost none of what you describe- no iframe dodge, very direct storytelling, non-grimdark setting, a normal save-point system and no corpse runs, and Symphony of the Night and Harmony of Dissonance were piss-easy.

Quite a substantial number of Metroidvanias outside of the Igavania games don't even follow that mold, such as the Blaster Master Zero series, Touhou: Luna Nights. Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth, the La-Mulana games (Though admittedly the original La-Mulana more of a Maze of Galious-Like), Hero Core, the Shantae games, and Cave Story- you're assigning universal qualities to the genre that are far from universal or even part of the majority of games in the genre.

There are more things between heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Apart from that, there's really nothing to be gained by introducing a death penalty like has been proposed. It might add some small amount of challenge, but it's not an interesting challenge.

[Maximum_Darkness]

Hey here is something for people who want some type of punishment.

For those who want perma-death then when Lilly dies in game quit to the main menu and delete your file and start over. All it requires only if the players wanting this are honest with themselves and doesn't need to mess with the game files.

Another for those wanting a punishment that will frustrate them every time they die have a friend or family member sit beside em and when they die smack em on the head or punch them randomly somewhere else. Again like the previous one doesn't need to mess with the game files and ruin other people from enjoying the game.

[alejandro_magno]

Publicado originalmente por Bosh:

Publicado originalmente por Grimm Bulbel:

It's a metroidvania, not a souls-like(visuals is souls-like.
What would you propose?

At least some kind of consequence. Challenge is fun.

yeah bro!!!

[artesva]

Publicado originalmente por StoneofTriumph:

Publicado originalmente por artesva:

Nope, almost all metroidvanias are sort of soulslike, with the same bonfire system, fighting system (iframe dodge, then attack, and so on) and ''challenging but fair'' gameplay without difficulty settings - what you called ''kinda hard''.

Also almost all of them have grimdark setting and specific nonstraight way of telling the story.

Totality of those atributes makes them classic soulslike, and any person, who plays souls games, will instantly recognize the same game, but in 2D and specific exploration model.
Lilies is not an exception here at all.

And this game has currency - blight, it's just autolevels your character.
You could lose at least something on death and then retrieve.

It's funny because the Igavania games (Symphony of the Night, Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, Order of Ecclesia)- the games that gave us the term Metroidvania in the first place- have almost none of what you describe- no iframe dodge, very direct storytelling, non-grimdark setting, a normal save-point system and no corpse runs, and Symphony of the Night and Harmony of Dissonance were piss-easy.

Quite a substantial number of Metroidvanias outside of the Igavania games don't even follow that mold, such as the Blaster Master Zero series, Touhou: Luna Nights. Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth, the La-Mulana games (Though admittedly the original La-Mulana more of a Maze of Galious-Like), Hero Core, the Shantae games, and Cave Story- you're assigning universal qualities to the genre that are far from universal or even part of the majority of games in the genre.

There are more things between heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Apart from that, there's really nothing to be gained by introducing a death penalty like has been proposed. It might add some small amount of challenge, but it's not an interesting challenge.

Sure, when I said metroidvanias, I meant metroidvanias of new age - post-Hollow Knight formula, which created new standarts and since then MDs copy HK more or less. And HK was perfect DS put in 2D

Talking Holow Kinght, Salt and Sanctuary, Blasphemous, Bloodstained, Vigil and even Ori and the Wisps, an now Lilies. Crowsworn soon.

[Black Snake]

All I read in this forum are people sad that this game isn't exactly like Hollow knight and dark souls. :P Can't this game do something different without people saying "BUT IN HOLLOW NIGHT..."?

[Inapostle]

Plus, honestly, losing your souls or whatever to go pick them up later on was never a really challenging thing, it's just a chore most of the time and it's never that hard to do.

[Bankai9212]

HK isn’t dark souls, losing geo isn’t critical especially late game. Salt and sanctuary is the only true 2d dark souls.

[substance abuser]

Publicado originalmente por Gryvias:

Plus, honestly, losing your souls or whatever to go pick them up later on was never a really challenging thing, it's just a chore most of the time and it's never that hard to do.

not if you die before retraining your lost resources, then you lost them forever.

[Bankai9212]

That’s only an issue if there were that many to begin with. Once you have what you need those resources mean nothing later on.

[Mr. Brokencyde]

It would honestly add basically nothing to this game to have a corpse retrieval mechanic so I'm glad it's not a feature. progress not being reset on death does make it a little more forgiving than say, a Metroid or Castlevania game but i can't say it changed the way I played the game much.

[StoneofTriumph]

Publicado originalmente por artesva:

Talking Holow Kinght, Salt and Sanctuary, Blasphemous, Bloodstained, Vigil and even Ori and the Wisps, an now Lilies. Crowsworn soon.

Blaster Master Zero 1 and 2, Touhou Luna Nights, Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth, and Castlevania: Lecarde Chronicles 2 are all quite recent games.

And frankly, as someone who started in this genre with Castlevania 2 on its original hardware, I find the homogenization of the genre to be more tedious than anything- I find BMZ1 and 2 (and the upcoming 3) to be more engaging and imaginative than S&S and Blasphemous because they're at least trying to build something more unique than yet another retread of the "grim, cursed world where the only colors are grey, brown, and gore".

The whole reason I picked up Ender Lilies is because it at least tries to do something a little different with the gameplay.

[Bankai9212]

Different? It straight up copies the mechanic from aria of sorrow, you just can’t absorb every enemy. Even the rings is ripped from hollow knight. Even SS and blasphemes have some interesting aspects to them. Mainly the setting and environmental story telling, can’t really say this game does anything new with the setting.

[Jauder le Bonette]

Publicado originalmente por Bulbel:

Publicado originalmente por Grimm Bulbel:

It's a metroidvania, not a souls-like(visuals is souls-like.
What would you propose?

Blasphemous, Hollow Knight, Salt & Sanctuary are also all metroidvania soulslike's and all of them have a punishment system

Blasphemous: Lose max fervor
Hollow Knight: Lose geo
Salt & Sanctuary: Lose salt & lose portion of gold

So this is no reason to not have a punishment for death in Ender Lilies.

Though, I don't know what punishment could be in Ender Lilies, maybe losing XP; however in Ender Lilies you can already return to respite at any time by pausing the game and choosing the option, so game itself allows you to prevent dying anyways, I cannot think of any punishment in a such game unless they remove that option.

And all of them added absolutely nothing and were just an annoyance. I don't want to get deep into catacombas and then have my souls just lie there cause i didn't found a checkpoint on the way, this mechanic goes directly against the exploration spirit of metroidvanias, ♥♥♥♥ it.

[Bankai9212]

Frevor is hardly a lose, same with geo.

[Grimm Bulbel]

this mechanic goes directly against the exploration spirit of metroidvanias, ♥♥♥♥ it. [/quote]
this right here