What's so great about fire ice?

[pemmons1]

My home planet is a satellite of a gas giant providing hydrogen and deuterium. I think I'd prefer this at the outset over a nearby ice giant. Fire ice can also be mined from certain planets, and I was able to do so soon enough. Everyone seems to consider fire ice a higher priority than deuterium, but why?

[Rekal]

Deuterium is very slow collecting from gas giants until higher stages of vein utilization, so if you're planning to switch to fusion power you'll drain them dry quickly. Most of the time I just collect hydrogen and use fractionators to convert it to deuterium. Hydrogen is unlimited and collects very fast, so now your deuterium (fusion power) is not limited by the gas giant, but by how many fractionators you loop together.

The process to build graphene without fire-ice is super annoying if you're also missing a sulfuric acid ocean. Which is why I always say to prioritize sulfuric acid first, then organic crystals, and then fire-ice when doing your initial exploration trips. But if you've already got fire-ice in the starter system it's a moot point.

Deuterium never really comes up when people talk about which resources to focus on finding because it can be so easily created. Thus deuterium is a lower priority to fire-ice.

[DthBlayde]

To add a bit more detail, inparticular the graphene aspect:

https://dyson-sphere-program.fandom.com/wiki/Graphene

normally takes energetic graphite and sufuric acid, and the associated infrastructure of multiple production lines (stone and water into a chem plant, two stage processing of coal, x-ray cracking etc.)

Fire ice kicks out graphene mesh AND hydrogen as a by product on its own without any pre-processing needed. just distribution logistics into the chem plants

[darkestkhan]

Diposting pertama kali oleh pemmons1:

My home planet is a satellite of a gas giant providing hydrogen and deuterium. I think I'd prefer this at the outset over a nearby ice giant. Fire ice can also be mined from certain planets, and I was able to do so soon enough. Everyone seems to consider fire ice a higher priority than deuterium, but why?

Deuterium saves you hydrogen - which is an unlimited resource once you tap into either ice or gas giant. On another hand, fire ice will save you oil, which may be unlimited in theory, but in practice, you want to save oil in the initial stages for organic crystals and plastic. and oh boy, you will need loads of graphene.

[Jan]

In short, fire ice means easy graphene production. Just one step in comparison to the basic recipe. Hydrogen is a byproduct but not the reason fire ice is usefull. Most of your hydrogen will come from gas giants later in the game.

[Shahadem]

Starting in a system with Fire Ice is like being born a man in the feminist idea of a patriarchy.

Deuterium is so easy to produce from hydrogen that hauling it back from a gas giant almost isn't even worth the effort.

[darkestkhan]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shahadem:

Starting in a system with Fire Ice is like being born a man in the feminist idea of a patriarchy.

Deuterium is so easy to produce from hydrogen that hauling it back from a gas giant almost isn't even worth the effort.

Nope, starting with a gas giant, a lava planet, and a planet with mineable fire ice is like being born a man in the feminist idea of patriarchy.

Easy graphene, easy deuterium, loads of H2, loads of iron... what is not to like?

[Ziik]

Diposting pertama kali oleh darkestkhan:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shahadem:

Starting in a system with Fire Ice is like being born a man in the feminist idea of a patriarchy.

Deuterium is so easy to produce from hydrogen that hauling it back from a gas giant almost isn't even worth the effort.

Nope, starting with a gas giant, a lava planet, and a planet with mineable fire ice is like being born a man in the feminist idea of patriarchy.

Easy graphene, easy deuterium, loads of H2, loads of iron... what is not to like?

I don't know if I'd class this as ironic or not; but I used a transguy friend's birthday as the seed and got all of these things. 20m Iron and Copper Lava inner planet, gelisol with minable Fire Ice mid planet, good continent sized starting planet for early game main busses.

[pemmons1]

After more play, I'm now a convert to the advantage of an ice giant in the home system. Graphene is a very important product, not only for itself but to make carbon nanotubes and particle containers. Being able to make it with fire ice is a huge relief on demand for coal. I'm appreciating for the first time that the benefit of fire ice from an ice giant extends to all planets in the home system almost as easily as to the home planet itself, thereby facilitating expansion of industry elsewhere.

As soon as the technology has been reached, build a few orbital collectors and take advantage. Don't wait until you have all forty. It isn't hard to return later and finish the job.

You can also get some hydrogen from ice giants. For deuterium, there are fractionators, and I'm always surprised at how few are needed if they are configured optimally (including proliferating the incoming hydrogen).

[dragonsphotoworks]

Diposting pertama kali oleh GRS Ziik:

Diposting pertama kali oleh darkestkhan:

Nope, starting with a gas giant, a lava planet, and a planet with mineable fire ice is like being born a man in the feminist idea of patriarchy.

Easy graphene, easy deuterium, loads of H2, loads of iron... what is not to like?

I don't know if I'd class this as ironic or not; but I used a transguy friend's birthday as the seed and got all of these things. 20m Iron and Copper Lava inner planet, gelisol with minable Fire Ice mid planet, good continent sized starting planet for early game main busses.

Diposting pertama kali oleh GRS Ziik:

Diposting pertama kali oleh darkestkhan:

Nope, starting with a gas giant, a lava planet, and a planet with mineable fire ice is like being born a man in the feminist idea of patriarchy.

Easy graphene, easy deuterium, loads of H2, loads of iron... what is not to like?

I don't know if I'd class this as ironic or not; but I used a transguy friend's birthday as the seed and got all of these things. 20m Iron and Copper Lava inner planet, gelisol with minable Fire Ice mid planet, good continent sized starting planet for early game main busses.

Could i get the seed please? Tell them happy bday from me lol

[darkestkhan]

Diposting pertama kali oleh pemmons1:

After more play, I'm now a convert to the advantage of an ice giant in the home system. Graphene is a very important product, not only for itself but to make carbon nanotubes and particle containers. Being able to make it with fire ice is a huge relief on demand for coal. I'm appreciating for the first time that the benefit of fire ice from an ice giant extends to all planets in the home system almost as easily as to the home planet itself, thereby facilitating expansion of industry elsewhere.

As soon as the technology has been reached, build a few orbital collectors and take advantage. Don't wait until you have all forty. It isn't hard to return later and finish the job.

Graphene goes into so many things that fire ice is a must-have. You also forgot one more thing about fire ice - it greatly diminishes your demand for sulphuric acid (and thus also oil, stone, water, and energy). As an additional benefit, it can be chucked into fossil power plants.

This is in stark contrast to nearly every other special resource (other than organic crystals). Those tend to be nice to have but will do just fine without them. Organic crystals are the other exception as they greatly reduce demand for oil.

[Mowglia]

Burn them all!

[josmith7]

Diposting pertama kali oleh darkestkhan:

Graphene goes into so many things that fire ice is a must-have. You also forgot one more thing about fire ice - it greatly diminishes your demand for sulphuric acid (and thus also oil, stone, water, and energy).

Though by the time you have orbital collectors to take advantage of fire ice you shouldn't be far from being able to simply finding a convenient sulfuric acid ocean/lake to pump it from (obviating the need to make it from oil) . (though DF makes that potentially more annoying since you'd have to also defend that convenient pumping station/ILS)

[darkestkhan]

Diposting pertama kali oleh josmith7:

Diposting pertama kali oleh darkestkhan:

Graphene goes into so many things that fire ice is a must-have. You also forgot one more thing about fire ice - it greatly diminishes your demand for sulphuric acid (and thus also oil, stone, water, and energy).

Though by the time you have orbital collectors to take advantage of fire ice you shouldn't be far from being able to simply finding a convenient sulfuric acid ocean/lake to pump it from (obviating the need to make it from oil) . (though DF makes that potentially more annoying since you'd have to also defend that convenient pumping station/ILS)

A big assumption here is that you have a convenient location for sulfuric acid. Another big one is that you are that close to going from collectors to warp drive. IIRC collectors are yellow cube science. Very trivial to achieve. It's just much nicer if you can get your hands on fire ice in your starting system - then you can go after organic crystals instead of acid, as that eliminates much of the need for oil infrastructure.

[pemmons1]

I've learned not to count on finding a sulfura planet within six light years. If there is one, consider yourself lucky.

[pemmons1]

Do you mean that being on a planet five light years away from home probably opens up the ability to reach systems from there that cannot be reached directly from home? Interesting idea-- thanks (if it's true).