Stations; Do you bother with the Interstellar?

[Treveri]

Other than the power ... I'm trying to sort out in my head why I wouldn't just build Planetary stations (with 5 storage bays) and ignore the Interstellar that only give you three?

[Prometheus0000]

You've got them mixed up. And yes, planetary ones can be useful to collect oil so you don't carpet a planet in belts. If they added an advanced oil extractor like the miner I'm not sure I'd use them though.

[Arkhne]

I'm one of those people who literally cannot see any reason to use the Planetary. I usually just completely skip over it, since the production chain and tech level is so similar, using Planetary first feels like a waste of resources.

Now, if I could convert a Planetary to an Interstellar without having to deal with it dropping all the storage, and having to redo the settings, I *might* find a use, but as it stands, nobody has given any reason to use a Planetary over an Interstellar that makes any sort of logical or reasonable sense. And the only reason I can see why the upgrade doesn't exist is the footprint/collision size difference, which is a pretty poor reason, imho.

[josmith7]

There can be some advantages for the smaller planetary (PLS) ones -- but I also tend not to bother with them much.

They are cheaper and faster to produce; which matters a bit when you first unlock them (since you don't have to add 50 titanium alloy and another 20 particle containers atop what's required to make the planetary station).

They also draw less (minimum) power from your power grid and so are less likely to disrupt or crash that when you first unlock them.


You can also pack them more closely together than the larger interstellar logistics station (ILS); which is nice when you're converting a mall from storage boxes to being hooked into your logistics network.


If I only need to get a single item (such as dropping an unpowered station next to an oil extractor) I'll often go with the smaller cheaper PLS. Also, when I first start deploying advanced miners, but before my VU gets high enough that mining out planets is no longer a concern, I'll sometimes use a PLS in conjunction with the larger ILS on a mining world.

>> Put all the drones in the smaller PLS, then run belts (though traffic monitors set to alarm if empty) to the ILS which has the warpers, vessels, and often fuel to power the planet as well as the 3 raw materials I'm exporting. That way if I mine out some resource the traffic monitors will warn me. If I just has the ILS picking up resources with its own drones I'd have no way to set such a warning[1]. Plus it'd be splitting power between local and interstellar travel; rather than getting the resources energy free via belts.<<


However, for all those (minor) benefits, I tend to rely far, far, more heavily on the larger more flexible ILS

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[1] Well, I could set alarms on the advanced miners - but they don't differentiate between a single vein approaching exhaustion and every vein being exhausted -- so you get a ton of what I'd view as false alarms.

[thenonsequitur]

Originally posted by Warchild:

And the only reason I can see why the upgrade doesn't exist is the footprint/collision size difference, which is a pretty poor reason, imho.

The slightly smaller footprint is the one of the main reasons I like to use PLSes. I like to create my blueprints as compact as possible and PLSes fit much more nicely.

Also by using a mix of ILS for some kinds of logistics and PLS for other kinds of logistics can help create a logical separation that IMO makes it easier to plan and reason about and easier to find throughput problems and bottlenecks.

These arguments may not be convincing to you, but they are good reasons for me to use PLSes...especially the smaller footprint.

[Treveri]

Great discussions and comments! Thanks guys!!!

[kris44dad]

I find I'm placing them more than I used to, but point taken.

[Jay Ren]

PLS being able to be much closer together means I tend to use them for a good while on the first planet, since throwing in a whole ILS to pick up a resource nodes can make later ILS's hard to cram in when phasing out older stuff.

If they could hold more items, I would use them a lot more for logistical separation. As it is, once I start proliferating everything, most things end up wanting 4-5 slots.

But they do feel a bit weird (to a newcomer using their home system). I made an ILS, long before a PLS, because frankly, the moment you get them, you want to be automating Titanium/Silicon delivery. THEN I started making PLS to smelt things as they became more affordable. The milestones however are the other way around, implying you would be using PLS, despite the cost and everything being belted anyway at that point and your lack of easy solar and so forth.

[LorDC]

Originally posted by OmegaJasam _ DGD _:

But they do feel a bit weird (to a newcomer using their home system). I made an ILS, long before a PLS, because frankly, the moment you get them, you want to be automating Titanium/Silicon delivery. THEN I started making PLS to smelt things as they became more affordable. The milestones however are the other way around, implying you would be using PLS, despite the cost and everything being belted anyway at that point and your lack of easy solar and so forth.

Yeah, that's the problem with current game progression: you actually need ILS first to build PLS. I feel, like there should be some kind of recipe to make early titanium akin to silicon. Maybe something like steel+copper or iron+copper or dozen copper ore. If it existed, things would make much more sense.

Also, my personal gripe with PLS is that I like my blueprints to be as modular as possible. Read, they should work when built anywhere and not require anything else beyond power. And that is just not possible with PLS. You either have to make source materials on the same planet or build separate distributing ILS (and then keep an eye on them so that they aren't overloaded).

Their benefits on the other hand are dubious.
Yes, the cost is smaller. But it is not that big to actually matter: maybe a hundred thousands of ore over the course of the whole game up to the terawatt-sized spheres.
Yes, you can place them closer together, but reasonably-sized blueprints have plenty of space for ILS too.

The only place I would consider using them is a mall. Basically, a place where you need a lot of different but small production setups.

[Nekogod]

Yeah, that's the problem with current game progression: you actually need ILS first to build PLS. I feel, like there should be some kind of recipe to make early titanium akin to silicon. Maybe something like steel+copper or iron+copper or dozen copper ore. If it existed, things would make much more sense.

That or make PLS interplanetary and a fair bit cheaper or make ILS a fair bit more expensive for a proper hub and spoke logistics where you have a small core of ILS per system shipping between systems and a large network of PLS per system shipping between planets

[aphfid]

I tend to make things from raw so I find the smaller footprint of the PLS preferable for flexibility of placement, and visually being able to see more of my blueprint easier. Also, I rarely use even half the capacity of the PLS - often my inputs are less than a 1000 raw material. I tend to not mix supply and demand in one station. I tend to use multiple smaller blueprints rather than very large blueprints. So my preference for blueprints is more smaller stations.

But for harvesting, mostly always ILS for the greater capacity.

[Jay Ren]

Originally posted by aphfid:

I tend to make things from raw so I find the smaller footprint of the PLS preferable for flexibility of placement, and visually being able to see more of my blueprint easier. Also, I rarely use even half the capacity of the PLS - often my inputs are less than a 1000 raw material. I tend to not mix supply and demand in one station. I tend to use multiple smaller blueprints rather than very large blueprints. So my preference for blueprints is more smaller stations.

But for harvesting, mostly always ILS for the greater capacity.

I personally like to never use more then half of the storage capacity on any demand item, so that if I ever have to break the thing, or move it 'cus I messed up alignment or something I can dump the fallen trash into the new one without problem ^-^;

[Rekal]

One thing I primarily use Planetary Logistic Stations for is oil extraction. On the hydrocarbon worlds with oil seeps all over the place, each seep individually is not going to over saturate a Interstellar Logistic Station. I have multiple PLS setup around the planet collecting from nearby seeps. They feed to the ILS which supplies to the wider network.

I think this is how PLS were original envisioned to be used, but they kind of lose their place with the advanced miners.

In my opinion, I think the PLS should be given five slots just like the ILS. There's no real reason to not have five slots. They have the same foot print, so the same 12 belt input/outputs, and already have a reduced storage capacity. Give them five slots, and reduce the storage capacity further and they'll get used a ton more.

[thenonsequitur]

Originally posted by Nekogod:

make PLS interplanetary and a fair bit cheaper or make ILS a fair bit more expensive for a proper hub and spoke logistics

I like this idea a lot, would make much more sense than the current options.

I also always thought it was weird that the only options were "planetary" and "interstellar" with no "interplanetry" station to bridge them. This would solve that too. No weird gap between interplanetary and interstellar.

[Arkhne]

If the current PLS was interplanetary (with a few tweaks), and a newer, cheaper one (with a few nerfs) was introduced at a lower tech level (and increase the tech requirement of true ILS), then I think this would work much better overall, and I could see myself using more than just ILS.

The tech requirements are so close to each other that they might as well be the same node on the tree, which is a big part of why I never bother with PLS, given that the actual cost difference between them is virtually nothing. By the time I've got the resources to build a PLS, by virtue of research enqueue, I've unlocked ILS and already shifted my focus because I'm sick of shuttling resources between planets.

Without some sort of Interplanetary station in between, PLS would have to come sooner, and cost a lot less for it to be at all attractive to me, since at the point you've unlocked logistics towers and want to build them, you're needing resources for the other planets in your solar system, and once you automate the moving of materials, the production time difference from raw to complete is virtually nothing, so I'm just going to focus on ILS, as it does more.

[aphfid]

Originally posted by Rekal:

I think this is how PLS were original envisioned to be used, but they kind of lose their place with the advanced miners.

In my opinion, I think the PLS should be given five slots just like the ILS. There's no real reason to not have five slots. They have the same foot print, so the same 12 belt input/outputs, and already have a reduced storage capacity. Give them five slots, and reduce the storage capacity further and they'll get used a ton more.

Agreed. For me personally I also think the drones are too slow and random at transporting between the PLS and ILS. This makes it cumbersome to have the PLS as an intermediary.

Originally posted by Warchild:

If the current PLS was interplanetary (with a few tweaks), and a newer, cheaper one (with a few nerfs) was introduced at a lower tech level (and increase the tech requirement of true ILS), then I think this would work much better overall, and I could see myself using more than just ILS.

The tech requirements are so close to each other that they might as well be the same node on the tree, which is a big part of why I never bother with PLS, given that the actual cost difference between them is virtually nothing. By the time I've got the resources to build a PLS, by virtue of research enqueue, I've unlocked ILS and already shifted my focus because I'm sick of shuttling resources between planets.

Without some sort of Interplanetary station in between, PLS would have to come sooner, and cost a lot less for it to be at all attractive to me, since at the point you've unlocked logistics towers and want to build them, you're needing resources for the other planets in your solar system, and once you automate the moving of materials, the production time difference from raw to complete is virtually nothing, so I'm just going to focus on ILS, as it does more.

Agreed. I think maybe having stations that allow movement between planets in the solar system, but not between solar systems would be a nice intermediary.