Dyson Sphere Program

Dyson Sphere Program

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Confused Lucario Oct 4, 2024 @ 1:04pm
The UI of Dyson Sphere Program holds this game back
I love factory building games and the idea of a game based around entirely making dyson spheres (I love the idea and look of them) sounded awesome to me. I also have a 100 hours in factorio and a few hours here and there in other factory games but im having issues getting into DSP.

TL;DR is at the bottom btw

I think the main problem stems from the controls and the tutorial.
It might just be a personal dislike of mine but the tutorial person gets very irritating quickly (no offence to the voice actor, you did a good job). Part of the reason it gets annoying is because they chime in whenever i do anything and a lot of the time over explains things. I would like to turn him off but without him i would be unsure what to do because im new to the game.

Another thing that i find that makes it difficult to get into the game is the menus/UI. i find them very un-intuitive, especially for a person who has come from a game like factorio. a few of the main issues im having is the crafting menus not being sorted making them feel weird to navigate, and the player inventory being annoying to work with. I also often have to fight with the camera to get it to the right angle. But the biggest thing that is driving me way from this game is the building UI. whenever your building you need to often switch between buildings to place down but it almost feels like the game wasn't made with that in mind, i find myself often placing something down, having to right click a few times just to get out of the build mode or re-open your inventory to place the item back. For context, in factorio the menu bar at the bottom held slots for you to set keybinds to quick select items in your inventory so that building felt smooth and uninterrupted, and pressing q would instantly return the item on your cursor back to inventory. After trying to build my first smelters i already felt done with the game from having to place, return item to inventory/right click a ton, get a new item repeat.

There are also a few other issues that i consider small but still worth to mention. The items bar at the bottom of the screen feels useless. If you need a item you would just click on it but if you dont have it, it will tell you that you dont have enough and make you navigate to the crafting menu and craft it. I think the main bar should be switched to a keybind hotbar so that building feels smooth. From here i also feel like the tutorial is done poorly mainly because of over explaining. Most of the time i feel like its handing me 2 paragraphs of information on every new thing i build, and on top of that only a bit of the information is useful

a comparison of DSP vs Factorio's building

Factorio:
hot key 1, place conveyor, hotkey 2, place inserter, hotkey 3, place crafter

DSP:
open inventory, find conveyor belt, place conveyor belt, right click a bunch to put away the item, open inventory, grab crafter, place it, right click a bunch to put it away, open inventory, grab sorter, place it, right click a bunch to put it way

finally to wrap this up, i think the game is amazing and i really really want to get into it but its held back by poor UI and gameplay choices. From clunky UI or gameplay to weird camera controls and weird tutorial, it all adds up to make the game feel not enjoyable to play.

The improvements i would like to see is:

1. The changing of the camera system, make it a free orbit camera and to have no weird leveling out when you zoom in

2. separate the tutorial from the main game so that gameplay (at least for the start) is uninterrupted and smooth, either that or lower the amount of information the current tutorial gives, for example, the tutorial guy does not need to tell you that a furnace can be crafted in your crafting menu, just what it does, which is smelt things.

3. change the building controls and UI to be seamless and easy to operate, there are a few things that i think are require to achieve this. the first thing to do is to make it so one button immediately puts way what your holding and takes you out of build mode. Another thing is to provide a keybind hotbar that the user can set up themselves to pull items from their inventory without issue. And the last thing is to combine the inventory and the crafting menu, into one so that you are not fumbling between them. On top of that have the crafting menu be set to open on the building page instead of the resources page so you dont have to switch between tabs to craft what you want.

Overall i think these improvements would really improve the game in play-ability and enjoyment. converting the game from a cluster of menus and annoying keybind to a lot smoother and less confusing experience.

TL;DR: The game is held back by weird menus, controls, UI, and the tutorial, that can all be (excluding tutorial) easily changed to improve gameplay and enjoyment dramatically.

also ik i have under a hour of gameplay so i cant really talk like i know everything, and im curious on what experienced players have to say about these issues i have encountered, if they have the same problems, and what their thoughts are on it / how to fix it.

none of this is meant to say that the team that created this game is bad, i think they did a wonderful job and brought a very interesting idea to life. this is more of a highlight of things that i have ran into and on what i think would improve the game.

alr my yapping is done, your amazing if you read all the text
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Showing 31-42 of 42 comments
Arkhne Dec 6, 2024 @ 6:35pm 
Originally posted by toxxxa:
Originally posted by Arkhne:
Your complaint about Blueprints is also factually wrong. Blueprints DO connect with each other. Looks like you just haven't tried to understand the system, so it must be wrong.

Could you please give me advice how to fix this blueprint to make it stackable? Or, in general, any blueprint that contains overlapping elements?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3379540941

BLUEPRINT:0,10,0,0,0,0,0,0,638691332520082545,0.10.31.24697,New%20Blueprint,"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"4A4D79B68028EFFBBCBF308FBCC131A4

Or, for example, I have two conveyors on the same level, where one slightly hops over the other. Why can’t I rebuild the lower conveyor in the same spot after deleting it? It was just there. Instead, I have to delete two tiles of the upper conveyor on both the left and right sides and then rebuild them both from scratch.

The same issue applies to splitters. I can’t just place a splitter directly over the conveyour line. At first I have to delete three conveyor tiles, place the splitter, and then reconnect them. And if I need to insert a splitter somewhere on the 3rd to 5th level of conveyors, that’s an especially tedious "factorying" process.

These small details make building the factory frustrating and less enjoyable for me.

I can't jump in game right now, but I can say that you are right, putting splitters not on ground level is tedious.

As for issues with the conveyor hopping system, it was recently changed, so there are probably still going to be issues. It behaved a fair amount differently even earlier this year. I'm not a fan of the current behaviour of it, and feel that it causes more problems that it solved. So you're also right on that one.

In order to make blueprints chainable/tileable/etc, belts need to be in identical positions, with the same level of belt. You should also be aware of changes to the adjacent belt tile (something that has become a fair bit more prevalent after the changes to belt hopping), and how close large structures (like splitters and refineries) are to the edges.

Another way of making blueprints tileable is more useful with bigger blueprints, where the end portion and the start portion are the same, since you can paste a blueprint over the top of existing buildings as long as they don't conflict (ie: a smelter will cleanly paste over the top of a smelter, but an assembler will not).

I actually have a series of blueprints I put together built to 6/s belt speed, but able to paste end to end for easy upgrading for higher belt speeds. They're quite wasteful space-wise, but pretty good for quickly getting started in the early game. This wouldn't be possible if belts didn't automatically connect to belts in blueprint pasting.

The game also does a fairly poor job of explaining the building system. Key actions being the recipe copy+paste (which is *briefly* covered), shift click to copy a building (recipe and sorter/inserter included), and click and drag to paste multiple copies (using tab to cycle through spacing changes). The latter combined with control+c for making a temporary blueprint can be very handy in upscaling, just being aware of the points I made earlier about tiling blueprints.

As to your earlier complaints about the logistics slots, I do actually agree with you that the current iteration is quite bad. I despise the changes made to it, and consider it borderline useless now. I only use it for bulk storage now, mostly when flying to new planets/systems.

I do apologize for my frustrated responses earlier, and do in fact agree that it isn't perfect right now (some things *are* downright bad), and part of my resistance to changes is that (from my perspective) almost all of the system changes in the last year or so have negatively impacted how well the systems work. When combined with my own sour experience with Factorio, it's perhaps not surprising that I do not react well (but that's also no excuse).

EDIT: I also fully understand your frustration in having the building system killing your fun. I've found the game less and less fun this year due to core system changes.
Last edited by Arkhne; Dec 6, 2024 @ 6:37pm
josmith7 Dec 6, 2024 @ 8:54pm 
Some key concepts for making blueprints tile-able - mostly due to the game not (yet?) being very good about intelligently resolving collisions (or near collisions).

For belts to connect there must be only one tile of overlap - obviously if the two belts don't touch then they won't connect when you paste down the blueprint. But if you have more than a single pair of belt items overlapping the 2nd blueprint won't apply normally and if you force apply all overlapping belt segments there will be omitted again leading to the belts not being properly connected.
A subtle result of this limitation it that you can't have the belt connection point between blueprints be at a 3 way or 4 way belt connection as those automatically ensure more than 2 belt items are overlapping.

Sorters will just silently disappear when a blueprint is applied if either their source or destination is not present (either already built; not just ghost outlines) or included in the blueprint you're applying.

(That combo means the best place to join blueprints is just before the belt reaches a building - there shouldn't be any junctions and the overlap spot shouldn't have any sorters attached to it)

Collision is also a problem when you try to make the connection point any building that directly accepts a belt. Either the building will collide with the belt, or the belt with the building (depending on which is placed 2nd). Instead you need to make sure that the blueprint that contains such a building contains a short 2 or 3 grid stub of belt so the other blueprint has a non-collision target they can connect to (a single overlap of belt).

Collision is also why you can't successfully split a blueprint on a belt slope - you need to make the overlap point a flat section (it can be at any height, including any half-height, but it must be a flat stretch at that height)


--
Finally there are general collision issues that blueprints can suffer due to being placed onto a sphere. It's quite possible to build and blueprint a design in a 'wide' spot of the sphere grid that can't be pasted into spot where the grid is more tightly bunched as buildings will no longer have minimum acceptable clearance. (Or the subtler issue of placing on a less tightly bunched area of grid which may make buildings move just far enough away from power poles that they won't be powered.)
If you're trying to make a really solid blueprint it's best to test it out in both extremes and adjust as necessary until you've got one that won't give you trouble. (A quick throwaway sandbox game can be good for this testing and tweaking)



So while it's quite possible to build a tile-able blueprint (and I've made plenty of them) it is harder than it should be and you do have to bear the above limitations in mind
glavitar Dec 8, 2024 @ 10:38pm 
Originally posted by toxxxa:
Originally posted by Arkhne:
Your complaint about Blueprints is also factually wrong. Blueprints DO connect with each other. Looks like you just haven't tried to understand the system, so it must be wrong.

Could you please give me advice how to fix this blueprint to make it stackable? Or, in general, any blueprint that contains overlapping elements?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3379540941

BLUEPRINT:0,10,0,0,0,0,0,0,638691332520082545,0.10.31.24697,New%20Blueprint,"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"4A4D79B68028EFFBBCBF308FBCC131A4

Or, for example, I have two conveyors on the same level, where one slightly hops over the other. Why can’t I rebuild the lower conveyor in the same spot after deleting it? It was just there. Instead, I have to delete two tiles of the upper conveyor on both the left and right sides and then rebuild them both from scratch.

The same issue applies to splitters. I can’t just place a splitter directly over the conveyour line. At first I have to delete three conveyor tiles, place the splitter, and then reconnect them. And if I need to insert a splitter somewhere on the 3rd to 5th level of conveyors, that’s an especially tedious "factorying" process.

These small details make building the factory frustrating and less enjoyable for me.

this is an expandable version of your blueprint, you will just have to manually connect the final corner where a splitter would go
as mentioned before, belts can only overlap by 1

BLUEPRINT:0,10,0,0,0,0,0,0,638692938814041039,0.10.31.24697,New%20Blueprint,"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"5EB1FF7EDAFD7A00C563838296E5B468
Shiroe Dec 9, 2024 @ 1:06am 
About blueprints: DSP not being "flat earth" but spheres resulting in grid-wonkyness at certain locations probably doesn't help. I build nearly everything in west-east setup and not north-south to prevent crossing the streams^w lines of wonkyness.
toxxxa Dec 9, 2024 @ 11:12am 
Originally posted by glavitar:
this is an expandable version of your blueprint, you will just have to manually connect the final corner where a splitter would go
An elegant solution, thank you. Open my mind a little.
ThreadCarefully Dec 11, 2024 @ 2:52am 
Originally posted by Jay:
In DSP to place an inserter (aka 'sorter' in DSP) you:

hot key 3, F4 to select the type of belt, click where you want it and drag the direction.

Pressed 3 then F4 - and nothing happened!

Originally posted by Jay:
Everything has its hotkey in the menu icon.

Those are not hotkeys to "activate" one of the building menus.
Those are hotkeys to "toggle" one of the building menus.
If you already had the menu open, DSP would close it, thus F1/F2/etc do nothing.

As it stands, DSP doesn't have any kind of hotkeys in conventional sense of them. Because conventional sense is "activate something", not "toggle something".

So yes, the UI and UX is a mess. (Count how many times you need to press 'E' or 'Esc' to close the windows/dialogs. Screen might look identical, but depending on how you got there you might need 1-2-3 'E'/'Esc' press. This is precisely what is called 'mess'.)
Bobucles Dec 11, 2024 @ 4:58am 
Yeah, there are some parts where the UI seems to not work that well. The biggest one is that in building mode, a great deal of your buttons get locked out. It kind of defeats the purpose of using a keyboard, most of the buttons get locked out.

The most common oops is go into dismantle mode, hold ctrl or shift to do something else,, and whoops delete an entire line.

Aiming at 3d models is the biggest obstacle. Buildings have height, and that height hides things behind it. It can be very difficult to point in a crowded base, because the mouse points at things instead of the grid.
Arkhne Dec 11, 2024 @ 5:58am 
Originally posted by ThreadCarefully:
Originally posted by Jay:
In DSP to place an inserter (aka 'sorter' in DSP) you:

hot key 3, F4 to select the type of belt, click where you want it and drag the direction.

Pressed 3 then F4 - and nothing happened!

Originally posted by Jay:
Everything has its hotkey in the menu icon.

Those are not hotkeys to "activate" one of the building menus.
Those are hotkeys to "toggle" one of the building menus.
If you already had the menu open, DSP would close it, thus F1/F2/etc do nothing.

As it stands, DSP doesn't have any kind of hotkeys in conventional sense of them. Because conventional sense is "activate something", not "toggle something".

So yes, the UI and UX is a mess. (Count how many times you need to press 'E' or 'Esc' to close the windows/dialogs. Screen might look identical, but depending on how you got there you might need 1-2-3 'E'/'Esc' press. This is precisely what is called 'mess'.)

Jay is absolutely right. This is EXACTLY how the hotkeys work. They ARE hotkeys. It isn't the game's fault if you wont believe it. Number to select category, FKey to select object, then place as normal. They are not toggles, and they do activate things. They are hotkeys. There may be possible improvements or alternatives to the system, but this is the one we have, and it works far better than most solutions I've seen out there.

God. I sure hope this isn't logistics slots all over again. Peoples' inability to understand that simple system got it made useless, if we get our hotkeys broken too, that would be an absolute disaster.
Nekogod Dec 11, 2024 @ 8:06am 
Originally posted by Arkhne:

God. I sure hope this isn't logistics slots all over again. Peoples' inability to understand that simple system got it made useless, if we get our hotkeys broken too, that would be an absolute disaster.
What was the initial implementation, I forget exactly, but I remember it being better.

As it stands, DSP doesn't have any kind of hotkeys in conventional sense of them. Because conventional sense is "activate something", not "toggle something".
That's just not true, the F keys are the hotkeys and they activate the building in the active menu. Not all that different from say Alt+Scroll to activate different hot bars in Satisfactory, not sure what Factorio uses, but I seem to remember there were multiple hotbars so there must be a way to switch between them.
Last edited by Nekogod; Dec 11, 2024 @ 8:10am
Arkhne Dec 13, 2024 @ 4:43pm 
Originally posted by Nekogod:
Originally posted by Arkhne:

God. I sure hope this isn't logistics slots all over again. Peoples' inability to understand that simple system got it made useless, if we get our hotkeys broken too, that would be an absolute disaster.
What was the initial implementation, I forget exactly, but I remember it being better.

As it stands, DSP doesn't have any kind of hotkeys in conventional sense of them. Because conventional sense is "activate something", not "toggle something".
That's just not true, the F keys are the hotkeys and they activate the building in the active menu. Not all that different from say Alt+Scroll to activate different hot bars in Satisfactory, not sure what Factorio uses, but I seem to remember there were multiple hotbars so there must be a way to switch between them.

Originally, Logistics Bots delivered into Logistics Slots. Which meant that if you set your demand equal to your logistics stack size, you'd maintain full resources, without cluttering your inventory. I absolutely despise everything get shoved into my inventory at whatever order it wants. The only alternative is to manually set slot filters on the entire inventory, which itself causes even more problems.

This was changed because people couldn't understand why they couldn't build with the automatically resupplied buildings. I think the solution is to have a toggle in the logistics slot popup (like the building vs repair button in the mecha menu). Just set the default to the current behaviour. This way we can maintain an "easy" entry to the system, and yet have a "clean" option for the rest of us.

As for the hotkeys, I like the way it works right now, I just wish we could shuffle them (Say, move Belt III to slot F1, so we can maintain a muscle memory), no need to move between categories like most of the hotbar mods let you do.
Andrey Dec 13, 2024 @ 7:02pm 
Personally me after some 500 hours love the building part of it but hate to move around that orange thing man.why cant i do that with mouse and keyboard it would be so much more time saving.Use that thing only when moving from planet to planet
Last edited by Andrey; Dec 13, 2024 @ 7:03pm
Shiroe Dec 14, 2024 @ 12:14am 
Originally posted by Andrey:
Personally me after some 500 hours love the building part of it but hate to move around that orange thing man.why cant i do that with mouse and keyboard it would be so much more time saving.Use that thing only when moving from planet to planet
Plot related: that "lazy" thinking was what resulted in the Dark Fog, so now have human brain patterns instead of AI in control of setting up everything... ;)
(hopefully the devs don't ever use that as an excuse if part of the game function less intelligent...)
Last edited by Shiroe; Dec 14, 2024 @ 12:17am
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Date Posted: Oct 4, 2024 @ 1:04pm
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