The UI of Dyson Sphere Program holds this game back

[Confused Lucario]

I love factory building games and the idea of a game based around entirely making dyson spheres (I love the idea and look of them) sounded awesome to me. I also have a 100 hours in factorio and a few hours here and there in other factory games but im having issues getting into DSP.

TL;DR is at the bottom btw

I think the main problem stems from the controls and the tutorial.
It might just be a personal dislike of mine but the tutorial person gets very irritating quickly (no offence to the voice actor, you did a good job). Part of the reason it gets annoying is because they chime in whenever i do anything and a lot of the time over explains things. I would like to turn him off but without him i would be unsure what to do because im new to the game.

Another thing that i find that makes it difficult to get into the game is the menus/UI. i find them very un-intuitive, especially for a person who has come from a game like factorio. a few of the main issues im having is the crafting menus not being sorted making them feel weird to navigate, and the player inventory being annoying to work with. I also often have to fight with the camera to get it to the right angle. But the biggest thing that is driving me way from this game is the building UI. whenever your building you need to often switch between buildings to place down but it almost feels like the game wasn't made with that in mind, i find myself often placing something down, having to right click a few times just to get out of the build mode or re-open your inventory to place the item back. For context, in factorio the menu bar at the bottom held slots for you to set keybinds to quick select items in your inventory so that building felt smooth and uninterrupted, and pressing q would instantly return the item on your cursor back to inventory. After trying to build my first smelters i already felt done with the game from having to place, return item to inventory/right click a ton, get a new item repeat.

There are also a few other issues that i consider small but still worth to mention. The items bar at the bottom of the screen feels useless. If you need a item you would just click on it but if you dont have it, it will tell you that you dont have enough and make you navigate to the crafting menu and craft it. I think the main bar should be switched to a keybind hotbar so that building feels smooth. From here i also feel like the tutorial is done poorly mainly because of over explaining. Most of the time i feel like its handing me 2 paragraphs of information on every new thing i build, and on top of that only a bit of the information is useful

a comparison of DSP vs Factorio's building

Factorio:
hot key 1, place conveyor, hotkey 2, place inserter, hotkey 3, place crafter

DSP:
open inventory, find conveyor belt, place conveyor belt, right click a bunch to put away the item, open inventory, grab crafter, place it, right click a bunch to put it away, open inventory, grab sorter, place it, right click a bunch to put it way

finally to wrap this up, i think the game is amazing and i really really want to get into it but its held back by poor UI and gameplay choices. From clunky UI or gameplay to weird camera controls and weird tutorial, it all adds up to make the game feel not enjoyable to play.

The improvements i would like to see is:

1. The changing of the camera system, make it a free orbit camera and to have no weird leveling out when you zoom in

2. separate the tutorial from the main game so that gameplay (at least for the start) is uninterrupted and smooth, either that or lower the amount of information the current tutorial gives, for example, the tutorial guy does not need to tell you that a furnace can be crafted in your crafting menu, just what it does, which is smelt things.

3. change the building controls and UI to be seamless and easy to operate, there are a few things that i think are require to achieve this. the first thing to do is to make it so one button immediately puts way what your holding and takes you out of build mode. Another thing is to provide a keybind hotbar that the user can set up themselves to pull items from their inventory without issue. And the last thing is to combine the inventory and the crafting menu, into one so that you are not fumbling between them. On top of that have the crafting menu be set to open on the building page instead of the resources page so you dont have to switch between tabs to craft what you want.

Overall i think these improvements would really improve the game in play-ability and enjoyment. converting the game from a cluster of menus and annoying keybind to a lot smoother and less confusing experience.

TL;DR: The game is held back by weird menus, controls, UI, and the tutorial, that can all be (excluding tutorial) easily changed to improve gameplay and enjoyment dramatically.

also ik i have under a hour of gameplay so i cant really talk like i know everything, and im curious on what experienced players have to say about these issues i have encountered, if they have the same problems, and what their thoughts are on it / how to fix it.

none of this is meant to say that the team that created this game is bad, i think they did a wonderful job and brought a very interesting idea to life. this is more of a highlight of things that i have ran into and on what i think would improve the game.

alr my yapping is done, your amazing if you read all the text

[josmith7]

Originally posted by "":

But the biggest thing that is driving me way from this game is the building UI. whenever your building you need to often switch between buildings to place down but it almost feels like the game wasn't made with that in mind, i find myself often placing something down, having to right click a few times just to get out of the build mode or re-open your inventory to place the item back. For context, in factorio the menu bar at the bottom held slots for you to set keybinds to quick select items in your inventory so that building felt smooth and uninterrupted, and pressing q would instantly return the item on your cursor back to inventory. After trying to build my first smelters i already felt done with the game from having to place, return item to inventory/right click a ton, get a new item repeat.

There are also a few other issues that i consider small but still worth to mention. The items bar at the bottom of the screen feels useless. If you need a item you would just click on it but if you dont have it, it will tell you that you dont have enough and make you navigate to the crafting menu and craft it.

I think you're factorio experience might be slightly misleading you here. Though, yes, the tutorial is a long running weak spot. It's very easy to miss things, not everything is explained in the first place, and it doesn't check that you've actually done the thing it just instructed you one (which just makes it easier to miss things)

While, yes, if you don't have the things then the bottom menu can be annoying. But the nice thing about it is that it obviates your first complaint.

You don't need to get smelters out of your inventory, lay some down, then press a key to put them back. You just select build smelters from the bottom menu and simply start placing them -- they'll automatically pull from your inventory. And ESC, or a right click, or b (to exit build), or just selecting something else will change the cursor from place smelter and you're done.

And once you have one smelter placed, sorters added, and a recipe set you can select it and then deploy a chain of identical smelters, complete with sorters (assuming you have the belts/buildings for the sorters to attach to -- otherwise only the bare smelter gets placed)

Of course once you get into the game you're way less likely to make a missing smelter (or whatever) from the fabrication menu. You'd instead either have logistics bots constantly topping you up with them or you'd run over to the storage for the assembler that's been stockpiling them for you and grab a stack then quickly return to placing them. (Or you'd use blueprint which would paste down leaving ghosts of the buildings you're lacking and again you'd restock from ones your factory was building and come back over to let the missing items get filled it)

[Nellvan]

As someone who played Factorio mostly through the inventory (and with the pipette functionality): Not having those stupid hotbars which need setting up and/or setting them up to not be filled with any random thing you happen to pick up makes the game BETTER.

[Jay]

Originally posted by Confused Lucario:

a comparison of DSP vs Factorio's building

Factorio:
hot key 1, place conveyor, hotkey 2, place inserter, hotkey 3, place crafter

DSP:
open inventory, find conveyor belt, place conveyor belt, right click a bunch to put away the item, open inventory, grab crafter, place it, right click a bunch to put it away, open inventory, grab sorter, place it, right click a bunch to put it way

In DSP to place an inserter (aka 'sorter' in DSP) you:

hot key 3, F4 to select the type of belt, click where you want it and drag the direction.

Everything has its hotkey in the menu icon.

There's no need to open the inventory at any stage in building.

[toxxxa]

in my opinion, one of the biggest problem is the lack of cut&paste functionality. because optimization and continuous refactoring your factory is what base building games are made for.

it seems that the developers did not plan that someone would be involved in modifying what was created. especially if you build a bus in several layers

[Andy]

Blueprints save a lot of time.

I have three main types:
1) small generic blueprints for connecting to a bus, and that can chain onto each other, that I use at the beginning of a game, I have a set with yellow belts and sorters, and a set with blue belts and sorters. I don't use green belts and sorters.
2) module blueprints, each with a logistics station, that are set to make one product, that I start using when I get yellow science. The modules are possibly less efficient than a bus, but they save so much time.
3) special blueprints like my big mall blueprints that fit in polar regions for when I start using modules and tear down my original bus system, or a string of solar sail ejectors that chain onto each other, or an array of wind turbines

About the only place you can't use a blueprint is mining because the mineral deposits have random layouts.

[josmith7]

Originally posted by toxxxa:

in my opinion, one of the biggest problem is the lack of cut&paste functionality. because optimization and continuous refactoring your factory is what base building games are made for.

it seems that the developers did not plan that someone would be involved in modifying what was created. especially if you build a bus in several layers

Researching blueprints does give you a copy & paste functionality. (Okay, you have to manually delete after copying; but at least the paste saves a huge amount of time)

It'd be nicer if you could just select and move things (especially if it could manage that without dumping the contents of storage and belts). But what we've got doesn't seem bad.

[Frozztastic]

There are hotkeys for everything.

The camera, in space, can be locked with the tab button, making it so you can freely move your mouse.

The right-click to cancel build thing...I'm not sure how that's a gripe, I've always found it to be quite helpful, personally.

The Crafting Menu will make more sense when you have more stuff unlocked. It's actually sorted fairly well.

Copy and Paste do exist, they need to be researched.

Hopefully you are able to use the info from this thread to increase your enjoyment of the game!

[toxxxa]

copy&paste has a completely different behavior than cut&paste. i have to create a new blueprint, select “use them now”, cancel the blueprint, delete everything i copied, then ctrl+v and finally paste

[Nekogod]

it seems that the developers did not plan that someone would be involved in modifying what was created. especially if you build a bus in several layers

They probably didn't anticipate buses since they're pretty sub optimal in DSP compared to something like factorio, it's all about the PLS and ILS

[josmith7]

Originally posted by toxxxa:

copy&paste has a completely different behavior than cut&paste. i have to create a new blueprint, select “use them now”, cancel the blueprint, delete everything i copied, then ctrl+v and finally paste

Or you could just do ctrl+c, highlight what you want to copy, ctrl+v and paste it down.


Or if you want to paste where the copied thing was then: ctrl+c, highlight, esc, delete the old thing, ctrl+v.
(Now those temporary blueprints only stay in the buffer a few minutes -- but you've enough time to do a little cleanup before pasting it down. Or if you're really worried [and have room] you can always immediately paste it down off to one side out of the way and then once you've cleaned up the actual destination do a copy & paste from the temporary spot back to the final one)

[Shermyth]

I like this interface much more than Factorio and any of the games that use similar interfaces.

[Nimble]

If you hold shift and click and drag a facility it will copy everything about that facility. Sorters, settings, everything. Does not require any tech unlocks. This will save you so much time until you get comfortable making BPs and it'll save a tremendous amount of clicking in the early game. For example, if you want to make a line of circuit board assemblers instead of click-dragging a row of assemblers and individually adjusting the settings and adding sorters all you have to do is set up the first assembler, draw the belts, and then shift-click-drag the first one down the line of belts. A whole row of perfect copies of that one facility gets placed and you don't get carpal tunnel.

[Electric Donkey]

Originally posted by Confused Lucario:

The items bar at the bottom of the screen feels useless. If you need a item you would just click on it but if you dont have it, it will tell you that you dont have enough and make you navigate to the crafting menu and craft it.

But if you double-click the item (or double tap the corresponding function key) it opens the crafting interface instantly with that item selected so you can craft it right away.

I miss the pipette function from Factorio and I agree that building in DSP is overall clunkier, but once you know all the shortcuts and get used to it, it's not so bad and shouldn't stop you from enjoying the game.

[toxxxa]

Originally posted by josmith7:

Or if you want to paste where the copied thing was then: ctrl+c, highlight, esc, delete the old thing, ctrl+v.

This is exactly what I was talking about. And it is very uncomfortable.

I really enjoy this game. Currently, I have about 100+ hours. However, certain aspects of the UX are preventing me from fully enjoying it:

- There’s no simple way to install sorters on an existing conveyor line.
- There’s no functionality to undo a false destruction.
- There's no way to flip the copied item
- The logistics slots are too few, even after upgrading. While building the factory, I constantly need conveyors, sorters, smelters, assembly machines, tesla towers, depots, mining machines, turrets, planetary logistics stations and so on. At the same time, I need outdated waste to be removed from the inventory for recycling by logistics robots during upgrades. Eight slots barely cover it, and even 16 feels insufficient.
- There’s no quick way to dump garbage items (like a "trash slot") from the inventory, so logistics robots can take them away without needing to set up a logistics slot.
- I still haven’t figured out how to drop an item from the inventory to the ground without Googling it. If this feature exists, it’s not very intuitive.
- Without cut-and-paste functionality, how do you all go about refactoring your factories?

[Shiroe]

Originally posted by toxxxa:

- The logistics slots are too few, even after upgrading. While building the factory, I constantly need conveyors, sorters, smelters, assembly machines, tesla towers, depots, mining machines, turrets, planetary logistics stations and so on. At the same time, I need outdated waste to be removed from the inventory for recycling by logistics robots during upgrades. Eight slots barely cover it, and even 16 feels insufficient.
- There’s no quick way to dump garbage items (like a "trash slot") from the inventory, so logistics robots can take them away without needing to set up a logistics slot.
- I still haven’t figured out how to drop an item from the inventory to the ground without Googling it. If this feature exists, it’s not very intuitive.

- Of my 3 rows of logistics for icarus, I have all but 1 slot assigned to fetching/returning buildings and 1 left open to sequentially "fidget spinner" back junk whenever I'm on my factory planet. (slowly setting up a few building import/export ILS-es, so in the future I have fewer back and forth travel to do.)
- On most of my planets I have Mk2 depots at both poles to stash away junk basic materials, since I still do the silly thing of farming lots of fauna and surface rocks, leading to lots of junk basic materials in inventory, but if I didn't do that, nearly the only junk in inventory would be from Dark Fog pickups and I think you could set those to only be picked up by BABs and not Icarus (heck there's even an on-screen option to wipe currently existing (Dark Fog) litter from the world.)

[qoute]
- Without cut-and-paste functionality, how do you all go about refactoring your factories? [/quote]
If it doesn't suffice and isn't a whole/half world one, why not make a new factory, blueprint it and keep pasting the new one wherever it's needed. (and either keep the old one running, set it to zero input or scrap it, getting back all the buildings and build space [1]) .
I haven't got to that point yet at all, but late game some people dedicate whole planets to making a single product, probably renaming the planet to have the product type in the name, since that can be easier to manage than tens of planets all producing dozens of things each...
Personally, I don't feel like spreadsheeting/factoriolab-ing massive factories, so for my 4th and further starsystems, I'm thinking of neither keeping with my small/medium blueprints, nor re-inventing the wheel, but just downloading some large blueprints from www.dysonsphereblueprints.com

[1] I scrapped back my homeworld to just water, oil, combustion units(?) and matrices; all other factory buildings, belts etc. got recyled and used on other worlds.