The combat update seems.... not very good?

[MrGowdy]

I left all the settings on default/normal just to see how things would feel based on the developers expected settings for most players.

I'm not using blueprints or anything else that might give me some huge advantage and I'm not a player that has invested 100,000's of hours into this game so that I'm a master... I'd call myself pretty average.

That said, it took no effort to clear the fog from my starter planet, I think I was attacked once before I did it? Then it took almost no effort to clear 2 more planets... never once was I attacked during any of this. I now control all the planets in my system and if they do land, I go clean it up quickly and easily. I've never been attacked from space????

In other words, it feels like I'm playing standard Dyson Sphere game with a very very slight annoyance to claim new territory once in a while.

I was very excited for this update and must say I'm currently pretty disappointed.

[Handbanana]

Escrito originalmente por MrGowdy:

Escrito originalmente por rightfn:

Criticism is fair, but it helps to say what you expected. Have you tried harder difficulties? Have you tried space combat?

Which would be worse for you - having to rebuild your stuff over and over because it gets destroyed, or finding the 'perfect defense' where you get attacked but never have to rebuild anything?

And finally if you haven't already, fly up and access the dark fog communicator for difficulty options.

What I was hoping for was the need to build turrets to defend my base while moving up the tech tree. Then start pushing them off my planet. Followed by defending my planet from them coming back. After that, landing on a new planet and setting up a forward base as a foothold to then do the same thing again in order to gather new resources.

Unfortunately what I ended up with was basically never being attacked, pushing them off my planet with very little resistance and never really having to worry about it again.

Maybe difficult slider adjustments would fix this but how do you know what settings to use? The "default" settings are a joke and not even worth bothering with.... but what if you jack them up half way? 2x? 4x? How do you know where an enjoyable and "balanced" experience is if the developers clearly haven't done that testing for you.

Unfortunately online, all search results are basically people talking about how maxing out at 3200% or whatever is nearly impossible.... but nobody is posting "these settings are the perfect settings to have a challenging experience that doesn't make you want to uninstall out of frustration and cheating. "

Nilaus is doing a max difficulty play through right now. Its definitely not trivial lol. They start at level 10 and send waves of 50+ enemies every few minutes. You are just going to have to experiment with the settings. You can change certain settings by talking to the fog but you will have experiment with it yourself. I feel like they left the default settings low on purpose.

[MrGowdy]

Escrito originalmente por Handbanana:

Nilaus is doing a max difficulty play through right now. Its definitely not trivial lol. They start at level 10 and send waves of 50+ enemies every few minutes. You are just going to have to experiment with the settings. You can change certain settings by talking to the fog but you will have experiment with it yourself. I feel like they left the default settings low on purpose.

Maybe a better solution would have been "Easy" "Medium" "hard" preset options? Because the default might as well not exist, they are completely meaningless addition.

maxed out settings as you described with level 10+ starting and 50+ waves.... "might" be interesting? I'll have to take a look.

I think the point or comment I was trying to make with this whole thread is that if you load up the game, and just hit "play" without tweaking all the individual settings .... the "Combat" update might as well not exist.

[cswiger]

Escrito originalmente por MrGowdy:

Maybe a better solution would have been "Easy" "Medium" "hard" preset options?

No. Fine-grained settings are always better than just easy/medium/hard.

Because the default might as well not exist, they are completely meaningless addition.

You will have a single planetary base already established on your homeworld at the default settings. It is already expanded to have defenses and ground units, so it can and will kill the Mecha if the first thing you do after starting a new game is try to attack it.

I think the point or comment I was trying to make with this whole thread is that if you load up the game, and just hit "play" without tweaking all the individual settings .... the "Combat" update might as well not exist.

That's a silly point to make, much less repeat.

While you can ignore the DF bases and hive for quite a while if you stick to replicator crafting, they will send raiding parties out once your power consumption increases which will destroy your buildings and even the Mecha if you made no effort to build turrets and tech up. Have you actually played this Dark Fog update at default settings for long enough to make white research?

[HO ANU]

I have been playing for hours and i havent even seen the dark fog. I got all the research upgrades, i got all the new items on the production line up and running. Still havent even seen them, where are they?

My save file was already big. I got a dyson sphere on all the planets in my star cluster. Do they not spawn where i already had a base?

[F'lar]

Escrito originalmente por HO ANU (ScepteredFish):

I have been playing for hours and i havent even seen the dark fog. I got all the research upgrades, i got all the new items on the production line up and running. Still havent even seen them, where are they?

My save file was already big. I got a dyson sphere on all the planets in my star cluster. Do they not spawn where i already had a base?

If your savegame file pre-dates the DF update - and it sounds like it does - then I don't think you'll see the DF in that playthrough. I haven't found any in mine and it does pre-date the update.

[Rhaane]

The old savefile should be just like if you started a new game and unchecked Dark Fog, they wont be in the game at all.

[Handbanana]

Escrito originalmente por HO ANU (ScepteredFish):

I have been playing for hours and i havent even seen the dark fog. I got all the research upgrades, i got all the new items on the production line up and running. Still havent even seen them, where are they?

My save file was already big. I got a dyson sphere on all the planets in my star cluster. Do they not spawn where i already had a base?

You have to make a new game to see them.

[HO ANU]

Ok thanks for the clarification.

[Shahadem]

I think having the Dark Fog be present at the start is the mistake.

The Dark Fog should send out a scout the first time you warp to a new system and then grow and expand from there. This would allow the Dark Fog to truly ramp up and be more aggressive instead of just kind of hanging around and chilling.

[boolybooly]

Escrito originalmente por MrGowdy:

Escrito originalmente por rightfn:

Criticism is fair, but it helps to say what you expected. Have you tried harder difficulties? Have you tried space combat?

Which would be worse for you - having to rebuild your stuff over and over because it gets destroyed, or finding the 'perfect defense' where you get attacked but never have to rebuild anything?

And finally if you haven't already, fly up and access the dark fog communicator for difficulty options.

What I was hoping for was the need to build turrets to defend my base while moving up the tech tree. Then start pushing them off my planet. Followed by defending my planet from them coming back. After that, landing on a new planet and setting up a forward base as a foothold to then do the same thing again in order to gather new resources.

Unfortunately what I ended up with was basically never being attacked, pushing them off my planet with very little resistance and never really having to worry about it again.

Maybe difficult slider adjustments would fix this but how do you know what settings to use? The "default" settings are a joke and not even worth bothering with.... but what if you jack them up half way? 2x? 4x? How do you know where an enjoyable and "balanced" experience is if the developers clearly haven't done that testing for you.

Unfortunately online, all search results are basically people talking about how maxing out at 3200% or whatever is nearly impossible.... but nobody is posting "these settings are the perfect settings to have a challenging experience that doesn't make you want to uninstall out of frustration and cheating. "

Well you have to experiment to understand what the sliders do but its self explanatory if you read the descriptions and think about it. It is a bit overwhelming at first but it all makes sense.

Everyone will have a different preference surely because we are all unique thanks to genetic variation from chromosome reassortment and recombination. So how can developers know how it will feel for you? You have to decide for yourself and they gave you a toolkit to allow you to do that.

Also perhaps you did not read my post about a 417% start which includes 1x max density but 200% occupancy which means only one DF base per planet but every planet has one, (which I would guess could be 100% with the same effect at 1x max density, except lower metadata multiplier and I expect it may have an effect on recolonisation attempts) also rampage setting causes maximum hostility for attacks and when approaching the bases plus 1000% threat means the attacks happen often due to one's own activity.

The big difference with 417% though is normal resources which makes it easier to feed a firebase with ammo. Also less grind with only one attack wave cycle (as opposed to 4 in my current game) and only one base to remove, but less Dark Fog drop as well.

If you have your defences well set up Dark Fog is incidental, but if you get sloppy they will cause grief so it adds a little piquancy to the game and the consequences of your choices.

[hannunroskaposti]

I found beginning quite good. I expected that DSP stays as building game and not become war game. I avoided a base at beginning and build turrets. They worked as I expect and time and resources used in warfare were well balanced in my opinion and war was interesting addition to the game. Later I could proceed to destroy bases on all planets in start system and prevent Hive re-establish them with plasma turrets.

Now I have about half of green tech and am in blocked situation. I read that hive steal part of Dyson sphere energy so I stay on fusion power. Hive does not send any new bases but it has more than 500 drones and I am completely unable to attack it. I lose stacks of corvettes and destroyers in a minute and will be killed. Hive can not expand without material but it is so powerful I can not achieve ability to threat it without numerous white tech levels, which needs Dyson sphere. Their fighters also avoid my planets if I try to lure them near to be destroyed by turrets.

I read that they will develop tech to space war. I hope that they give some temporary solutions before finished solution, like some simple missile silo which costs huge amount of advanced materials. It is little bit frustrating to pause game for a long time to wait updates. But first impression is good.

[Funny Bingo Guy]

Escrito originalmente por cswiger:

No. Fine-grained settings are always better than just easy/medium/hard.

This is almost completely wrong, considering games like Factorio have both presets and fine-tuning. The point of a preset is to help a new player make a choice without having to introduce them to tons of concepts that will be esoteric for someone who's just installed the game. This is also why some games hide the fine-tuning behind an "advanced" tab or something like that. This is truly basic user experience ♥♥♥♥, please don't try to talk about things that are clearly beyond you.

That's a silly point to make, much less repeat.

Not really, I started on default also and felt little to no challenge from the AI. I think I had some production line sliced in half by a space attack because I expanded into an area with no shield coverage but beyond that it feels like the AI would need 7-8 hives to attack you simultaneously with 500+ units each for the siege to actually get serious.

While you can ignore the DF bases and hive for quite a while if you stick to replicator crafting, they will send raiding parties out once your power consumption increases which will destroy your buildings and even the Mecha if you made no effort to build turrets and tech up. Have you actually played this Dark Fog update at default settings for long enough to make white research?

Thanks for reading out the in-game encyclopedia entry I guess? it doesn't really matter though, default is insanely easy and passive and there's not much reason to bother with it so far because the combat is really too hands-off and basic to provide an interesting challenge.
Starting to build a dyson around an O-class and the only issue I'm having right now is the 6-10 minutes it takes me to clear new planets with grav missiles. If only they at least added a nuke-type weapon for faster clearing that would be great.

Anyways, it would be great if the AI competed for resources with you at least. This way you'd have to fight for new resource nodes, that would be much more interesting than simple waves spawning to attack you. There's definitely lots more that can be done with this system but it's very much needs polish.

[dhitch89]

Escrito originalmente por Funny Bingo Guy:

snip

Default settings should be reasonable for all kinds of player experience imo, rather than tailored to harder difficulties right out of the gate. Personally, I think default serves the former purpose fine as of now, being enough of a nuisance to be a threat if left unchecked, but also having breathing room to get your bearings at the player's own pace (much like the game at large).

Though I hope you're getting something close to that 'serious challenge' from the Dark Fog's max settings, since default is so personally disappointing.

[Funny Bingo Guy]

Escrito originalmente por dhitch89:

Escrito originalmente por Funny Bingo Guy:

snip

Default settings should be reasonable for all kinds of player experience imo, rather than tailored to harder difficulties right out of the gate. Personally, I think default serves the former purpose fine as of now, being enough of a nuisance to be a threat if left unchecked, but also having breathing room to get your bearings at the player's own pace (much like the game at large).

Though I hope you're getting something close to that 'serious challenge' from the Dark Fog's max settings, since default is so personally disappointing.

I agree with you but as it is I don't think mere difficulty settings can solve the issue of a challenge. The AI is too simplistic for my liking, I think if it competed for resources with you after a certain threat level that would make it a bit more interesting, for example. Right now they're just sort of in the way most of the times.

[dhitch89]

Well, this system did release only a little while ago, and is nowhere near a final state (even ignoring the incomplete space side)

I imagine there's lots of opinions and feedback for the devs to sort through, so we just have to be patient, for now :P