[Solved] Need help with Ratios when using Proliferator Mk 3

[Regicide]

Hello there,

I'm trying to figure out how many Smelters (Tier 1) I need for 1:1 Products (like Iron, Copper etc.) to fill a blue belt, when I use Proliferator MK 3.

First I thought, it's just 50% then without Proliferator, since it speeds up the production by 100%. But then there is the 25% Extra Product amount. So I think 15 Smelters are too much for one blue belt. Or is this somehow allready part of the Production speed increase?

So any help would be appreciated.

Also: When I Proliferate my Proliferate (sounds wierd, honestly) I get more "fuel" per unit for my Proliferators. But when I then Empty a Proliferator, I only get unproliferated Proliferate back. Is this a bug?

Regards

PS: I swear I will get nightmares today from the word "Proliferate"

[Regicide]

Because technically, with Proliferate MK3, One smelter produces 5 Iron Plates every 2 Seconds. So 12 Smelter should be enough to fill a blue belt? But that''s only the case if Production speed and Production Bonus are additive. And that's what I don't know.

[Shawn]

Aaargh!

I use the brute force method:

I just pump all the Mk3 into a transport tower and put enough production to keep it full.

If you want to play with numbers, there is an online tool that can help you figure out how to balance stuff. Here is a link to produce blue proliferator stuff:

https://factoriolab.github.io/list?p=proliferator-3*60&s=dsp&v=4

[Kyrros]

Originally posted by Regicide:

But when I then Empty a Proliferator, I only get unproliferated Proliferate back. Is this a bug?

The way proliferator works is by adding "points" to the products it is used on. 0-3 points per item in a stack depending on which Proliferator you've used, and whether or not you've mixed proliferated with non-proliferated items. The more points that proliferator has, the more bonus 'sprays' you get out of each individual canister when you proliferate your proliferator.

The container only holds a certain amount of sprays of proliferator, not actual canister counts. If you add proliferated proliferator to the tank, you use less individual proliferator canisters to get the same number of sprays into the tank. When you 'empty' the tank, you get an equivalent number of sprays returned to you, which usually means one actually gets MORE individual canisters back, but in unproliferated form - it is still an equivalent value of proliferator in 'sprays', though, which is the important part.

So, no, not a bug, just a 'conversion' of sorts. You don't need to re-spray the proliferator if it's going back into spray tanks, as you will still get the original 'boosted' amount of sprays when inserted back into the tanks, just from a larger number of raw canisters instead of a smaller count of proliferated ones.

As to your original 'ratios' issues... I would highly encourage you to check out the factoriolabs DSP calculator - it's extremely comprehensive and allows you to find the answer to exactly the question that you're asking about production with different proliferators, and just ratios in general using multiple sources, recipes, and tech modifiers.

Edit: Shawn beat me to it while I was typing up my post... that link right there.

[josmith7]

Originally posted by Regicide:

Because technically, with Proliferate MK3, One smelter produces 5 Iron Plates every 2 Seconds. So 12 Smelter should be enough to fill a blue belt? But that''s only the case if Production speed and Production Bonus are additive. And that's what I don't know.

They're not additive. In the smelter there's a toggle switch to flip between getting speed or getting production.

You can use the factoriolab dyson sphere calculator (that Shawn and Kyrros mentioned) to work out what you need.

For example:
* If the arc smelters are in additional product mode you'd need 24, with Mk.III proliferator, to fill a blue belt.
https://factoriolab.github.io/list?z=eJxdj08LgkAQxb.NHgYKhcQ6Ohbbf4I01MuQhiUWSIVUhz57M7O3Fvb35r0ZZtkuBH.seaacmyYDH9aEE4CYcKAccoR0BAZelVyztoQbbnGV0FOSD-FOOzkVohWFvMDc4wjAEo6EZ8FWEGh4kBdawUl9JYwtwJIaiGBK2EMuUqvbu2zl5KatkZqPG4tYLKXOLCAn7NxspvICqVNlorTCi6AXvDXkX1lT-xTzrorvjO2DP5Z9i28Jf8eaPvgBkCtTbA__
(And they'd consume 1440 iron ore/min to do so)

*If the arc smelters are in additional speed mode you'd need 15 to fill a blue belt.
https://factoriolab.github.io/list?z=eJxdj1sLgkAQhf.NPgwUCYr16Fhsd4I01JchDSsskAqpHvztzcy-tbDfmXNm2EsbgjcejUw5N9cMPFgTTgBiwoFyyBHSERh4U3LN2hBuuMVVQi9JvoQ77eRUiFYU8gHmEUcAltAXngVbQaDhQW5oBCf1lTC2AEu6QgRTwg5ykVrd3mUrJ3dt-Wq-bixiWVLqzAJywtbNZipvkDpVJkorvAg6wUdD.pU1tUcxP6biPWP75I9lfdGX8Les6YIfkYRTbw__
(And they'd consume 1800 iron ore/min to do so)

[josmith7]

Note that on long production chains the plus production savings can really stack up, and for very long ones sometimes end up actually saving you power compared to even the non-proliferated factory of the same output! (Despite the +150% power usage of each remaining building)

For example here's the small rocket production chain for (150/min):
* Non-proliferated[factoriolab.github.io]
10 Mk.III assemblers making rockets (total of: 945 arc smelters, 586 Mk.III assemblers, 148 chemical plants - and 1125 MW of power)

* Speed proliferated[factoriolab.github.io]
5 Mk.III assemblers making rockets (total of: 474 arc smelters, 296 Mk.III assemblers, 74 chemical plants - and 1379 MW of power)

* Production proliferated[factoriolab.github.io]
8 Mk.III assemblers making rockets (total of: 304 arc smelters, 284 Mk.III assemblers, 60 chemical plants - and 1141 MW of power)

The +production one, in this case, didn't quite beat the non-proliferated version for power usage; but it did take only 1.4% more power; far better than the +speed's 22.6% more power.

[Regicide]

Ahhh!

Wow thanks a lot guys, this answers both of my questions perfectly!

Have a nice day!

[Regicide]

Originally posted by josmith7:

The +production one, in this case, didn't quite beat the non-proliferated version for power usage; but it did take only 1.4% more power; far better than the +speed's 22.6% more power.

That would have been my next question :D

Thank you! :)