Climate Change

[hero]

First off, let me just say how impressed I am with this game. Fun gameplay, very stable, tight performance, incredible support from the devs. DSP is an example of what every indie game studio/early access game should want to be.

Where I still think the game is lacking from a gameplay perspective is any sense of urgency. For some people, that's fine, it makes the game "chill", they know they don't need to rush, the dyson sphere tech will be there when they get to it.

For others, they want a challenge; a race against a clock. In Factorio, that was the aliens responding to pollution: advance your technology quick enough, or be overrun by the enraged wildlife.

For DSP, I think the only thing that makes sense as a source of urgency is climate change. The planets should be dynamic and react to the player's actions. Your starting planet is a lush earth-like planet with lots of natural resources, but if you aren't thoughtful about your decisions, it could become an uninhabitable torrent of climate disasters that makes research advancement more and more difficult, until it's eventually all but impossible.

The reality is that this is the challenge we face in real life as a species (maybe an actual Dyson Sphere isn't feasible, maybe just nuclear fusion, idk). In order to increase the human population and collective intelligence of the species, we have had to bootstrap our civilization with nonrenewable fossils fuels that damage the ecosystem. Eventually we learned how to generate/capture energy in more renewable ways, but in the time it takes to retrofit our infrastructure, we could run out of resources before we've extended our reach to other planets. I think DSP presents the best platform for more people to explore and understand that dynamic, thereby contributing to the collective intelligence of our species.

I imagine a weather system would be necessary, along with building integrity/health. Geological activity would also be fun (earthquakes, volcanos, etc). Erosion could be a problem to deal with and a reason to make sturdy platforms for building on. But if you cover an entire planet in concrete, it will surely not respond well.

Possible metrics/milestones would be: how long did it take to research the final node? How much ecological destabilization did you cause in the process? How many planets were destabilized to the point that they'll never recover? Players could compete not just for the quickest dyson sphere, but also the most eco-friendly/unfriendly.

I assume I'm not the first to bring this up, just wanted to express my interest in it and see how others felt. Thanks again for such a neat game!

[Deyvson]

We are a giant robot in this game, that can go from lava planets to ice planets. I'm sure a little climate variation on a particular planet wouldn't bother it. Also, most energy used is already clean and some planets don't even have an atmosphere. Still it could be cool some weather effects, ice in the poles of some planets and things like that.

[Kyrros]

Interesting ideas, but they don't really fit well into the current game - at least on the surface.

The premise of DSP is that this particular civilization has reached the point where everyone has uploaded their consciousness into an artificial network/environment. Your consciousness (you have no body) has been temporarily removed form that environment and placed into the Icarus mech, so that you can go back out into 'The Actual Universe' (as it's called in-game) and harvest immense amounts of power (in the form of energy matrices) to be sent back home to maintain and expand that network for everyone else.

It would seem that they would care very little for the environment impacts in the real world - given that it wouldn't affect them in their artificial environment - wherever that is.

Just my 2cp

[hero]

Yes, I agree, it's not the robot who should be worried about the impacts of the climate. I imagine hurricanes, tornadoes, heat waves, etc. would all be threatening to your pipelines and machinery.

I actually prefer it for the player's character to be an effectively invincible god-like entity, because it means the player can tech to the sphere as greedily or as conscientiously as they want. Who cares if you destroy a few planets if you get that dyson sphere working? The ends just might justify the means...if you can get there.

It would basically become an energy generation sandbox. Burning coal makes it possible to advance your research, but releasing hydrocarbons captures more energy in the atmosphere, increasing the energy in the weather effects, which increases the impact on your buildings, which increases the energy you have to put into maintenance, and the amount of forethought you have to put into energy generation.

[Coops]

You are blocking all light from the star in a handful of hours and you are worried about a little extra CO2 on one of the planets that will take millennia to have an effect.

[josmith7]

I suspect the urgency will end up being similar to Factorio's -- the roadmap is for the developers to release an update in the 2nd half of this year that adds an (optional) combat mechanic.

Likely the demands of that combat will add urgency to the game -- for those that choose to enable it.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

Originally posted by hero:

First off, let me just say how impressed I am with this game. Fun gameplay, very stable, tight performance, incredible support from the devs. DSP is an example of what every indie game studio/early access game should want to be.

Where I still think the game is lacking from a gameplay perspective is any sense of urgency. For some people, that's fine, it makes the game "chill", they know they don't need to rush, the dyson sphere tech will be there when they get to it.

For others, they want a challenge; a race against a clock. In Factorio, that was the aliens responding to pollution: advance your technology quick enough, or be overrun by the enraged wildlife.

For DSP, I think the only thing that makes sense as a source of urgency is climate change. The planets should be dynamic and react to the player's actions. Your starting planet is a lush earth-like planet with lots of natural resources, but if you aren't thoughtful about your decisions, it could become an uninhabitable torrent of climate disasters that makes research advancement more and more difficult, until it's eventually all but impossible.

The reality is that this is the challenge we face in real life as a species (maybe an actual Dyson Sphere isn't feasible, maybe just nuclear fusion, idk). In order to increase the human population and collective intelligence of the species, we have had to bootstrap our civilization with nonrenewable fossils fuels that damage the ecosystem. Eventually we learned how to generate/capture energy in more renewable ways, but in the time it takes to retrofit our infrastructure, we could run out of resources before we've extended our reach to other planets. I think DSP presents the best platform for more people to explore and understand that dynamic, thereby contributing to the collective intelligence of our species.

I imagine a weather system would be necessary, along with building integrity/health. Geological activity would also be fun (earthquakes, volcanos, etc). Erosion could be a problem to deal with and a reason to make sturdy platforms for building on. But if you cover an entire planet in concrete, it will surely not respond well.

Possible metrics/milestones would be: how long did it take to research the final node? How much ecological destabilization did you cause in the process? How many planets were destabilized to the point that they'll never recover? Players could compete not just for the quickest dyson sphere, but also the most eco-friendly.

I assume I'm not the first to bring this up, just wanted to express my interest in it and see how others felt. Thanks again for such a neat game!

Play eco , its one of more interesting games about ecology and climate change

[hero]

Originally posted by Coops:

You are blocking all light from the star in a handful of hours and you are worried about a little extra CO2 on one of the planets that will take millennia to have an effect.

Well not just CO2 of course, all physical interactions. Blocking out the sun is a perfect example. Completely encasing the star would reserve all the power to your structures and nothing else. Would be really neat to watch everything on all the planets die off as their sun is blocked out, and only your machines thrive.

As for the time aspect, it's a video game, and these planets are already unrealistically tiny. The goal isn't to make a 1:1 scale replica of the universe, it's to make a fun sandbox to play around in.

Originally posted by josmith7:

I suspect the urgency will end up being similar to Factorio's -- the roadmap is for the developers to release an update in the 2nd half of this year that adds an (optional) combat mechanic.

Likely the demands of that combat will add urgency to the game -- for those that choose to enable it.

Ah, thanks i wasn't aware of this. I'll probably try it out, I feel factorio's enemies are too simple, lots of room for improvement.

Originally posted by Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur:

Play eco , its one of more interesting games about ecology and climate change

I've heard of this, but never played it. Looks interesting, thanks, I'll give it a go.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

Originally posted by hero:

Originally posted by Coops:

You are blocking all light from the star in a handful of hours and you are worried about a little extra CO2 on one of the planets that will take millennia to have an effect.

Well not just CO2 of course, all physical interactions. Blocking out the sun is a perfect example. Completely encasing the star would reserve all the power to your structures and nothing else. Would be really neat to watch everything on all the planets die off as their sun is blocked out, and only your machines thrive.

As for the time aspect, it's a video game, and these planets are already unrealistically tiny. The goal isn't to make a 1:1 scale replica of the universe, it's to make a fun sandbox to play around in.

Originally posted by josmith7:

I suspect the urgency will end up being similar to Factorio's -- the roadmap is for the developers to release an update in the 2nd half of this year that adds an (optional) combat mechanic.

Likely the demands of that combat will add urgency to the game -- for those that choose to enable it.

Ah, thanks i wasn't aware of this. I'll probably try it out, I feel factorio's enemies are too simple, lots of room for improvement.

Originally posted by Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur:

Play eco , its one of more interesting games about ecology and climate change

I've heard of this, but never played it. Looks interesting, thanks, I'll give it a go.

just be mindful its game you need to play in multiplayer , the more the better

i find it funny a lot people on forum complain how some people hoard wealth or "cheese the system" who exacly what rich people do in our economy:P

[kris44dad]

Cool idea within limits. I wouldn't want volcanic fissures opening up under my green cubes, But, OK.

[p3nGu1nZz]

I understand what your saying, but I think you need to play the game a bit more and get to the end end end game where these mechanics present themselves. They are deeply rooted into the current game, and the game already does reward you if you use environmental friendly design verses using cheaper and less complex energy sources. If your happy with a 10 or even 100 GW cluster system; then you can easily get away with using fossil fuels or unnecessary foundations.

I have found that its much more advantageous to use a bit of imagination and adhere to what you would think is more environmental friends. For example it is possible to use an extremely small amount of crude oil, basically you only need it to make plastic for optical fiber, which even if you need 10K units a min, your only utilizing less the a percent of a percent of a percent of what is available. Like do not use fractionators, they are wasteful, also making fuel rods. use solar wind and ray recievers. Practice decentalized infrastructure, and also for fun try to not use foundations and make your impact on medi. and jungle planet biomes minimal. Put your heavy industry on barren moons.

[josmith7]

Originally posted by MissMaryJane4200:

Like do not use fractionators, they are wasteful

How so?
If you keep cycling the same hydrogen though them they'll eventually convert 100% of it to deuterium, and for a lot less energy than miniature particle accelerators (which only convert hydrogen to deuterium at a 2:1 ratio)

I guess they take up more ground area for a given output rate than miniature particle accelerators do - so maybe they "waste" more of the planet's surface?

Your other source of deuterium is further down the tech tree, and more resource intensive to build. But okay, orbital collectors for deuterium are self-powering -- consuming the infinite hydrogen and deuterium on the gas giants to keep themselves aloft. But considering how late you get them and how expensive they setting up some fractionators to create a deuterium stockpile seems like a good idea in the early game.

[Rick!!]

The only reason I play the game versus Factorio is that it's incredibly chill. I know the dev is adding monsters or aliens or something and combat but i would prefer to play on a chill mode. I get home from my job which is accounting with a huge dose of automation, and since i love automation, i like exploring the concept visually in the game. I don't want to babysit my stations against alien attacks or worry i messed up my planet since my galaxy only has 32 stars in it and thus a limited number of planets. I'm only concerned with making the most efficient system I can

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

Originally posted by Rick!!:

The only reason I play the game versus Factorio is that it's incredibly chill. I know the dev is adding monsters or aliens or something and combat but i would prefer to play on a chill mode. I get home from my job which is accounting with a huge dose of automation, and since i love automation, i like exploring the concept visually in the game. I don't want to babysit my stations against alien attacks or worry i messed up my planet since my galaxy only has 32 stars in it and thus a limited number of planets. I'm only concerned with making the most efficient system I can

for now , im getting excited for combat expansion they planing:)

[Bobucles]

Every tree burned in a thermal plant makes room for 3 more simulated trees.
If you think about it, it's environmentally destructive to NOT strip mine the planets.

[Nellvan]

Originally posted by Rick!!:

The only reason I play the game versus Factorio is that it's incredibly chill.

If you want it to be, Factorio is exactly as chill as DSP.