They gave Zangief high SPD damage because he's terrible

[SeeNoWeevil]

Almost everything about Gief is bad.

Slow, non-cancellable buttons prone to getting blown up by DI
Punishing people jumping is high risk, low damage or costs lots of meter
He burns meter like crazy
Lariat hit box doesn't hit cross up (WTH)
His overhead is slow and minus 1 week on block
Tundra Storm is a meme (again)
Close running bear grab has no armour
Far running bear grab is slow, telegraphed and mostly useless
Both level 1 and 2 supers are terrible
No invincible reversal
No corner carry
He gets mauled in the corner
Absolutely no oki whatsoever, all his DR oki is fake
He has the worst matchups in the game (JP, Guile, Sim)
Bad walk speed
Big hitbox

[Knowsome]

Origineel geplaatst door Observer:

Origineel geplaatst door Swampbunches:

I scanned trough some sf5 tournaments and found after hours a few in which Zangief participated and omg he was destroyed even by FANG who I heard is the worst character.

Tbf, not wanting to discredit itazan, but i think Snake eyez is the best gief.

also, i think if a player is cracked enough one can make a low tier character unstoppable, it is one hell of a handicap though beeing slow,big,bad normals, but i've seen a lot of zangief clips, and he looks extremely fun.

low tier characters always have the element of suprise if one is crazy good with him enough, due to lack of practice, and they are the most likely to get buffs in the future, and high tier characters are the opposite(likely to get nerfs, familiar match-ups).

gief gameplan is THE grappler archetype, find your way in, get some sick reads, make your opponent guess between mash/jump/SPD

and honestly, gief never had so many tools to get in, unlike he never had before:

air spd, anti-air super, EX lariat, Bear grab looking ambiguous, axe kick, his nutty light SPD range from sf4, heck even his v-skill kick counter is here.

Origineel geplaatst door SeeNoWeevil:

Absolutely no oki whatsoever, all his DR oki is fake
Big hitbox

If he had true oki considering how nutty his SPD damage is, he would probably be busted.

[SeeNoWeevil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKrhI2VNYAA
Oh lookee

Origineel geplaatst door Kanashi:

gief gameplan is THE grappler archetype, find your way in, get some sick reads, make your opponent guess between mash/jump/SPD

The grappler archetype relies on the grappler being able to safely condition the opponent to not jump and Gief cannot do this, at least not without burning loads of meter. If you hold up most of the time a Gief gets in on you, you're forcing him to take on lots of risk or burn lots of meter. THIS is why his design in 6 falls apart and why just giving him big SPD damage is not a replacement. Conditioning an opponent, by definition, requires being predicatable and being predictable in SF6 means eating a DI. It's catch 22 for the grappler.

For the record, I don't want him to be an absolute casino where you put people in the blender, that's not fun either.

[Riding into the night]

Origineel geplaatst door SeeNoWeevil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKrhI2VNYAA
Oh lookee

Origineel geplaatst door Kanashi:

gief gameplan is THE grappler archetype, find your way in, get some sick reads, make your opponent guess between mash/jump/SPD

The grappler archetype relies on the grappler being able to safely condition the opponent to not jump and Gief cannot do this, at least not without burning loads of meter. If you hold up most of the time a Gief gets in on you, you're forcing him to take on lots of risk or burn lots of meter. THIS is why his design in 6 falls apart and why just giving him big SPD damage is not a replacement. Conditioning an opponent, by definition, requires being predicatable and being predictable in SF6 means eating a DI. It's catch 22 for the grappler.

For the record, I don't want him to be an absolute casino where you put people in the blender, that's not fun either.

his anti-airs are fine, that video is disingenuous, lariat isn't as good as it was but you can ensure it anti-airs by not throwing it out late. Invincibility starts on frame 6 so if you do it super late like he is obviously you lose, all dp/dp adjacent anti airs have been nerfed for this game. Gief is among this group. Zangief is bad because of how frame data is designed in this game and because they removed his vortex, it's not more complicated than that.

[SeeNoWeevil]

Origineel geplaatst door Oracular Spectacular:

Origineel geplaatst door SeeNoWeevil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKrhI2VNYAA
Oh lookee


The grappler archetype relies on the grappler being able to safely condition the opponent to not jump and Gief cannot do this, at least not without burning loads of meter. If you hold up most of the time a Gief gets in on you, you're forcing him to take on lots of risk or burn lots of meter. THIS is why his design in 6 falls apart and why just giving him big SPD damage is not a replacement. Conditioning an opponent, by definition, requires being predicatable and being predictable in SF6 means eating a DI. It's catch 22 for the grappler.

For the record, I don't want him to be an absolute casino where you put people in the blender, that's not fun either.

his anti-airs are fine, that video is disingenuous, lariat isn't as good as it was but you can ensure it anti-airs by not throwing it out late. Invincibility starts on frame 6 so if you do it super late like he is obviously you lose, all dp/dp adjacent anti airs have been nerfed for this game. Gief is among this group. Zangief is bad because of how frame data is designed in this game and because they removed his vortex, it's not more complicated than that.

He's talking specifically about it having no hitbox on the back side.

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Origineel geplaatst door Oracular Spectacular:

Origineel geplaatst door SeeNoWeevil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKrhI2VNYAA
Oh lookee


The grappler archetype relies on the grappler being able to safely condition the opponent to not jump and Gief cannot do this, at least not without burning loads of meter. If you hold up most of the time a Gief gets in on you, you're forcing him to take on lots of risk or burn lots of meter. THIS is why his design in 6 falls apart and why just giving him big SPD damage is not a replacement. Conditioning an opponent, by definition, requires being predicatable and being predictable in SF6 means eating a DI. It's catch 22 for the grappler.

For the record, I don't want him to be an absolute casino where you put people in the blender, that's not fun either.

his anti-airs are fine, that video is disingenuous, lariat isn't as good as it was but you can ensure it anti-airs by not throwing it out late. Invincibility starts on frame 6 so if you do it super late like he is obviously you lose, all dp/dp adjacent anti airs have been nerfed for this game. Gief is among this group. Zangief is bad because of how frame data is designed in this game and because they removed his vortex, it's not more complicated than that.

as a gief main, no they arent. In sf5 your crouching heavy anti air hits almost everything. In sf6 your anti air whiffs anything that isnt way way out in front of you so you HAVE to hit it super early in their jump or read it. The lariat doesnt hit cross ups anymore and you have nothing that defends against cross ups. The lariat has start up frames so you gotta hit it early now instead of like SF5 where the idea was that it had active frames early and then some inactive frames so you could hit it last second but if you did it early you missed. This means your timing has to be much stricter now in SF6 for zangief anti airs.

The double QCF motion is almost impossible to hit on reaction and will at times whiff air opponents so its super hard to use as an anti air at all and really for hitting combos.

you can jump and spd but this seems to get stuffed by jumping air to air attacks.

Honestly his anti air game is garbage compared to the tools he had in SF5. Ill take it though because parry makes projectiles a joke which was giefs biggest issue in sf5.

And about frame data you are plain wrong. Zangief is one of the few people that have plus normals on block so he can weave in grabs. His frames arent bad at all, especially compared to other players.

[Riding into the night]

Origineel geplaatst door Teddy Roosevelt:

Origineel geplaatst door Oracular Spectacular:

his anti-airs are fine, that video is disingenuous, lariat isn't as good as it was but you can ensure it anti-airs by not throwing it out late. Invincibility starts on frame 6 so if you do it super late like he is obviously you lose, all dp/dp adjacent anti airs have been nerfed for this game. Gief is among this group. Zangief is bad because of how frame data is designed in this game and because they removed his vortex, it's not more complicated than that.

as a gief main, no they arent. In sf5 your crouching heavy anti air hits almost everything. In sf6 your anti air whiffs anything that isnt way way out in front of you so you HAVE to hit it super early in their jump or read it. The lariat doesnt hit cross ups anymore and you have nothing that defends against cross ups. The lariat has start up frames so you gotta hit it early now instead of like SF5 where the idea was that it had active frames early and then some inactive frames so you could hit it last second but if you did it early you missed. This means your timing has to be much stricter now in SF6 for zangief anti airs.

The double QCF motion is almost impossible to hit on reaction and will at times whiff air opponents so its super hard to use as an anti air at all and really for hitting combos.

you can jump and spd but this seems to get stuffed by jumping air to air attacks.

Honestly his anti air game is garbage compared to the tools he had in SF5. Ill take it though because parry makes projectiles a joke which was giefs biggest issue in sf5.

And about frame data you are plain wrong. Zangief is one of the few people that have plus normals on block so he can weave in grabs. His frames arent bad at all, especially compared to other players.

His frames are not nearly as good no, he has his jabs which are still moderate downgrades from SFV and then 3 normals that have to be applied in niche scenarios but of course street fighter 6 is a different game and it shouldn't be expected his normals are as powerful just like comparing sf6 lariat to sfv lariat also makes no sense. You hitting lariat early, I mentioned this, every anti air was nerfed because jumps were made slower I don't see why Gief's shouldn't follow this pattern, one of the easiest inputs for an air invincible move surely you can hit in 6 frames before your opponent hits you. Alot of characters are weaker against crossups, Guile who always had a reliable defense against crossups actually has to concede in some cases and air grab you or worse cr fierce which trades often in this game, the reason is because the corner is very strong in this game so being vulnerable to crossups forces the person on attack to think and reposition themselves to keep the corner. "he double QCF motion is almost impossible to hit on reaction" not even gonna bother with that. So yes in the context of sf6 his AA options are fine, what I think is a bigger issue is stuff like doing normal grab to bait neutral jumps is totally gone.

[Riding into the night]

Origineel geplaatst door SeeNoWeevil:

Origineel geplaatst door Oracular Spectacular:

his anti-airs are fine, that video is disingenuous, lariat isn't as good as it was but you can ensure it anti-airs by not throwing it out late. Invincibility starts on frame 6 so if you do it super late like he is obviously you lose, all dp/dp adjacent anti airs have been nerfed for this game. Gief is among this group. Zangief is bad because of how frame data is designed in this game and because they removed his vortex, it's not more complicated than that.

He's talking specifically about it having no hitbox on the back side.

Maybe I looked too far into him saying "specifically obvious jumps" but yeah against crossups you can technically crosscut it by inputting late but that depends on the character you're playing against, the normal they are using and how close to you they are, it also doesn't keep them in the corner which is what most people are complaining about.

[Riding into the night]

Origineel geplaatst door Teddy Roosevelt:

Origineel geplaatst door Oracular Spectacular:

his anti-airs are fine, that video is disingenuous, lariat isn't as good as it was but you can ensure it anti-airs by not throwing it out late. Invincibility starts on frame 6 so if you do it super late like he is obviously you lose, all dp/dp adjacent anti airs have been nerfed for this game. Gief is among this group. Zangief is bad because of how frame data is designed in this game and because they removed his vortex, it's not more complicated than that.

as a gief main, no they arent. In sf5 your crouching heavy anti air hits almost everything. In sf6 your anti air whiffs anything that isnt way way out in front of you so you HAVE to hit it super early in their jump or read it. The lariat doesnt hit cross ups anymore and you have nothing that defends against cross ups. The lariat has start up frames so you gotta hit it early now instead of like SF5 where the idea was that it had active frames early and then some inactive frames so you could hit it last second but if you did it early you missed. This means your timing has to be much stricter now in SF6 for zangief anti airs.

The double QCF motion is almost impossible to hit on reaction and will at times whiff air opponents so its super hard to use as an anti air at all and really for hitting combos.

you can jump and spd but this seems to get stuffed by jumping air to air attacks.

Honestly his anti air game is garbage compared to the tools he had in SF5. Ill take it though because parry makes projectiles a joke which was giefs biggest issue in sf5.

And about frame data you are plain wrong. Zangief is one of the few people that have plus normals on block so he can weave in grabs. His frames arent bad at all, especially compared to other players.

completely forgot to mention this if you want to air to air spd then do headbutt first into ex spd, air grabs are usually only good against empty jumps and non-deep crossups

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Origineel geplaatst door Oracular Spectacular:

Origineel geplaatst door Teddy Roosevelt:

as a gief main, no they arent. In sf5 your crouching heavy anti air hits almost everything. In sf6 your anti air whiffs anything that isnt way way out in front of you so you HAVE to hit it super early in their jump or read it. The lariat doesnt hit cross ups anymore and you have nothing that defends against cross ups. The lariat has start up frames so you gotta hit it early now instead of like SF5 where the idea was that it had active frames early and then some inactive frames so you could hit it last second but if you did it early you missed. This means your timing has to be much stricter now in SF6 for zangief anti airs.

The double QCF motion is almost impossible to hit on reaction and will at times whiff air opponents so its super hard to use as an anti air at all and really for hitting combos.

you can jump and spd but this seems to get stuffed by jumping air to air attacks.

Honestly his anti air game is garbage compared to the tools he had in SF5. Ill take it though because parry makes projectiles a joke which was giefs biggest issue in sf5.

And about frame data you are plain wrong. Zangief is one of the few people that have plus normals on block so he can weave in grabs. His frames arent bad at all, especially compared to other players.

His frames are not nearly as good no, he has his jabs which are still moderate downgrades from SFV and then 3 normals that have to be applied in niche scenarios but of course street fighter 6 is a different game and it shouldn't be expected his normals are as powerful just like comparing sf6 lariat to sfv lariat also makes no sense. You hitting lariat early, I mentioned this, every anti air was nerfed because jumps were made slower I don't see why Gief's shouldn't follow this pattern, one of the easiest inputs for an air invincible move surely you can hit in 6 frames before your opponent hits you. Alot of characters are weaker against crossups, Guile who always had a reliable defense against crossups actually has to concede in some cases and air grab you or worse cr fierce which trades often in this game, the reason is because the corner is very strong in this game so being vulnerable to crossups forces the person on attack to think and reposition themselves to keep the corner. "he double QCF motion is almost impossible to hit on reaction" not even gonna bother with that. So yes in the context of sf6 his AA options are fine, what I think is a bigger issue is stuff like doing normal grab to bait neutral jumps is totally gone.

Comparing frames doesnt work because ALL the moves have been changed to be more negative so that the drive system has a place for drive rush which gives extra frames. 4 or 5 i think.

Comparing two moves is a different thing altogether because the entire move system wasnt changed, just adjusted for balance. The lariat had its cross up protection removed completely. It wasnt just about balancing timing, frames, damage, etc.

"im not gonna bother with that" Im watching pros play modern zangief because hitting it raw is too annoying for even them. You wanna run that by me again or avoid it completely like a scrub for a second time? I guess Jwong knows less than you.

Learn to split your paragraphs up, Reading what you wrote is painful on the eyes.

Normal grab to bait jump is gone? I still use it. bait jump with normal grab instead of command grab and buffer lvl 1 anti air. Like that?

[Riding into the night]

Origineel geplaatst door Teddy Roosevelt:

Origineel geplaatst door Oracular Spectacular:

His frames are not nearly as good no, he has his jabs which are still moderate downgrades from SFV and then 3 normals that have to be applied in niche scenarios but of course street fighter 6 is a different game and it shouldn't be expected his normals are as powerful just like comparing sf6 lariat to sfv lariat also makes no sense. You hitting lariat early, I mentioned this, every anti air was nerfed because jumps were made slower I don't see why Gief's shouldn't follow this pattern, one of the easiest inputs for an air invincible move surely you can hit in 6 frames before your opponent hits you. Alot of characters are weaker against crossups, Guile who always had a reliable defense against crossups actually has to concede in some cases and air grab you or worse cr fierce which trades often in this game, the reason is because the corner is very strong in this game so being vulnerable to crossups forces the person on attack to think and reposition themselves to keep the corner. "he double QCF motion is almost impossible to hit on reaction" not even gonna bother with that. So yes in the context of sf6 his AA options are fine, what I think is a bigger issue is stuff like doing normal grab to bait neutral jumps is totally gone.

Comparing frames doesnt work because ALL the moves have been changed to be more negative so that the drive system has a place for drive rush which gives extra frames. 4 or 5 i think.

Comparing two moves is a different thing altogether because the entire move system wasnt changed, just adjusted for balance. The lariat had its cross up protection removed completely. It wasnt just about balancing timing, frames, damage, etc.

"im not gonna bother with that" Im watching pros play modern zangief because hitting it raw is too annoying for even them. You wanna run that by me again or avoid it completely like a scrub for a second time? I guess Jwong knows less than you.

Learn to split your paragraphs up, Reading what you wrote is painful on the eyes.

Normal grab to bait jump is gone? I still use it. bait jump with normal grab instead of command grab and buffer lvl 1 anti air. Like that?

Maybe the language you chose was bad? I understand saying "the lvl 1 super is inconsistent and whiffs" but what you said was double qcf is hard to do against jumps which I disagree with, ironically Justin Wong recently choked to Punk by jumping and getting anti aired by a double qcf move. Don't get upset with me if you cannot convey your thoughts correctly.

I just pointed out to you that anti airs were adjusted because jumps are slower and the corner is stronger, as such it makes no sense to compare these two moves because they are designed for different contexts.

This is getting annoying because you don't fully read everything I have to say before responding, I initially said part of why gief struggles is because normals were overhauled, you reply saying Gief is one of the few characters who still has great plus on block normals, I reply saying overall his normals are not as great which is important for a grappler but that you can't compare them 1 to 1 because it's a different game, that being said a grappler having weaker normals as well as no vortex of course makes them inherently way harder. You THEN reply also saying you can't compare normals 1 to 1, I'm also noticing you are heated, I'm happy to split my paragraphs but if you're getting pissed off because I personally think Gief shouldn't have a better anti air then Guile and me trying to explain to you why his anti air makes sense in sf6, then I don't have to waste my time, but thats your call.

Baiting neutral jump you're saying against a wakeup? Meaty grab definitely gives you enough time against jumps but against a standing opponent there's definitely margin for error because grabs are 30 frames.

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Origineel geplaatst door Oracular Spectacular:

Origineel geplaatst door Teddy Roosevelt:

Comparing frames doesnt work because ALL the moves have been changed to be more negative so that the drive system has a place for drive rush which gives extra frames. 4 or 5 i think.

Comparing two moves is a different thing altogether because the entire move system wasnt changed, just adjusted for balance. The lariat had its cross up protection removed completely. It wasnt just about balancing timing, frames, damage, etc.

"im not gonna bother with that" Im watching pros play modern zangief because hitting it raw is too annoying for even them. You wanna run that by me again or avoid it completely like a scrub for a second time? I guess Jwong knows less than you.

Learn to split your paragraphs up, Reading what you wrote is painful on the eyes.

Normal grab to bait jump is gone? I still use it. bait jump with normal grab instead of command grab and buffer lvl 1 anti air. Like that?

Maybe the language you chose was bad? I understand saying "the lvl 1 super is inconsistent and whiffs" but what you said was double qcf is hard to do against jumps which I disagree with, ironically Justin Wong recently choked to Punk by jumping and getting anti aired by a double qcf move. Don't get upset with me if you cannot convey your thoughts correctly.

I just pointed out to you that anti airs were adjusted because jumps are slower and the corner is stronger, as such it makes no sense to compare these two moves because they are designed for different contexts.

This is getting annoying because you don't fully read everything I have to say before responding, I initially said part of why gief struggles is because normals were overhauled, you reply saying Gief is one of the few characters who still has great plus on block normals, I reply saying overall his normals are not as great which is important for a grappler but that you can't compare them 1 to 1 because it's a different game, that being said a grappler having weaker normals as well as no vortex of course makes them inherently way harder. You THEN reply also saying you can't compare normals 1 to 1, I'm also noticing you are heated, I'm happy to split my paragraphs but if you're getting pissed off because I personally think Gief shouldn't have a better anti air then Guile and me trying to explain to you why his anti air makes sense in sf6, then I don't have to waste my time, but thats your call.

Baiting neutral jump you're saying against a wakeup? Meaty grab definitely gives you enough time against jumps but against a standing opponent there's definitely margin for error because grabs are 30 frames.

Nobody is upset, Nobody has been upset. Claiming another person is upset is the troll equivalent of "you mad?" just dont. stay on topic.

If qcf motions are so easy to do on reaciton, id like to see you do them. Lets get some matches in, come on. I want you to anti air me with gief super on reaction. Cause its so easy right? Add me. Lets go.

You realize punk is literally a multi time tournament winner right? Using him as a baseline for how easy something is is ridiculous. Its not even worth addressing.

oh back to the heated thing? Why dont you stop assuming how i feel and just address the points being made? Notice i never try to guess your mental status? Its because it adds nothing to the conversation.

[SeeNoWeevil]

People aren't hitting QCFx2 on reaction, they're buffering it pre-emptively. Which is why it sucks because if you're in close, you need to come out of block and open yourself up to eating a combo.

[Riding into the night]

Origineel geplaatst door Teddy Roosevelt:

Origineel geplaatst door Oracular Spectacular:

Maybe the language you chose was bad? I understand saying "the lvl 1 super is inconsistent and whiffs" but what you said was double qcf is hard to do against jumps which I disagree with, ironically Justin Wong recently choked to Punk by jumping and getting anti aired by a double qcf move. Don't get upset with me if you cannot convey your thoughts correctly.

I just pointed out to you that anti airs were adjusted because jumps are slower and the corner is stronger, as such it makes no sense to compare these two moves because they are designed for different contexts.

This is getting annoying because you don't fully read everything I have to say before responding, I initially said part of why gief struggles is because normals were overhauled, you reply saying Gief is one of the few characters who still has great plus on block normals, I reply saying overall his normals are not as great which is important for a grappler but that you can't compare them 1 to 1 because it's a different game, that being said a grappler having weaker normals as well as no vortex of course makes them inherently way harder. You THEN reply also saying you can't compare normals 1 to 1, I'm also noticing you are heated, I'm happy to split my paragraphs but if you're getting pissed off because I personally think Gief shouldn't have a better anti air then Guile and me trying to explain to you why his anti air makes sense in sf6, then I don't have to waste my time, but thats your call.

Baiting neutral jump you're saying against a wakeup? Meaty grab definitely gives you enough time against jumps but against a standing opponent there's definitely margin for error because grabs are 30 frames.

Nobody is upset, Nobody has been upset. Claiming another person is upset is the troll equivalent of "you mad?" just dont. stay on topic.

If qcf motions are so easy to do on reaciton, id like to see you do them. Lets get some matches in, come on. I want you to anti air me with gief super on reaction. Cause its so easy right? Add me. Lets go.

You realize punk is literally a multi time tournament winner right? Using him as a baseline for how easy something is is ridiculous. Its not even worth addressing.

oh back to the heated thing? Why dont you stop assuming how i feel and just address the points being made? Notice i never try to guess your mental status? Its because it adds nothing to the conversation.

You repeatedly (even here) choose this odd aggressive language to try and antagonise me I guess?, if that's just how you type to everybody then even if I have my opinions about it that's your prerogative, I just have no interest trying to inform somebody who is emotionally invested in a conversation about street fighter anti airs if thats not you then fine.

I don't know what to tell you man, during the beta I played alot of Ken and against people who were turtling I would struggle to empty my super meter, so often times I would just anti air level 3, it's very dependable even more so with characters that have bad jump arcs like Chun-li, but even outside of that to stop jumps as Ryu sometimes I would level 1 if they were too far for DP, it's not that absurd. It is no secret Zangief level 1 is bad, and cannot be used as often as Ken level 3 as an anti air because you need to look out for specific situations where it won't whiff, but the input itself I really don't think is that bad.

I mentioned the punk thing because you brought up how Justin Wong as an authority on why it is hard to do, never did I say "double qcf is easy because punk did it in this one instance" I just personally think they aren't

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Origineel geplaatst door Oracular Spectacular:

Origineel geplaatst door Teddy Roosevelt:

Nobody is upset, Nobody has been upset. Claiming another person is upset is the troll equivalent of "you mad?" just dont. stay on topic.

If qcf motions are so easy to do on reaciton, id like to see you do them. Lets get some matches in, come on. I want you to anti air me with gief super on reaction. Cause its so easy right? Add me. Lets go.

You realize punk is literally a multi time tournament winner right? Using him as a baseline for how easy something is is ridiculous. Its not even worth addressing.

oh back to the heated thing? Why dont you stop assuming how i feel and just address the points being made? Notice i never try to guess your mental status? Its because it adds nothing to the conversation.

You repeatedly (even here) choose this odd aggressive language to try and antagonise me I guess?, if that's just how you type to everybody then even if I have my opinions about it that's your prerogative, I just have no interest trying to inform somebody who is emotionally invested in a conversation about street fighter anti airs if thats not you then fine.

I don't know what to tell you man, during the beta I played alot of Ken and against people who were turtling I would struggle to empty my super meter, so often times I would just anti air level 3, it's very dependable even more so with characters that have bad jump arcs like Chun-li, but even outside of that to stop jumps as Ryu sometimes I would level 1 if they were too far for DP, it's not that absurd. It is no secret Zangief level 1 is bad, and cannot be used as often as Ken level 3 as an anti air because you need to look out for specific situations where it won't whiff, but the input itself I really don't think is that bad.

I mentioned the punk thing because you brought up how Justin Wong as an authority on why it is hard to do, never did I say "double qcf is easy because punk did it in this one instance" I just personally think they aren't

Which odd aggressive language so i can work on it in the future?

"but the input itself I really don't think is that bad."

Show me. Put your money where your mouth is. Hit it on reaction to my random jumps. Lets see it. Enough posturing about what you believe. Give me proof.

I said justin clearly thinks its not very viable because he doesn't use it himself. Showing that punk hit it one time doesnt really prove its viable or easy to do. Not to mention without seeing the clip we have no idea if he was just buffering behind something already and it wasnt reactionary.

[Riding into the night]

Origineel geplaatst door Teddy Roosevelt:

Origineel geplaatst door Oracular Spectacular:

You repeatedly (even here) choose this odd aggressive language to try and antagonise me I guess?, if that's just how you type to everybody then even if I have my opinions about it that's your prerogative, I just have no interest trying to inform somebody who is emotionally invested in a conversation about street fighter anti airs if thats not you then fine.

I don't know what to tell you man, during the beta I played alot of Ken and against people who were turtling I would struggle to empty my super meter, so often times I would just anti air level 3, it's very dependable even more so with characters that have bad jump arcs like Chun-li, but even outside of that to stop jumps as Ryu sometimes I would level 1 if they were too far for DP, it's not that absurd. It is no secret Zangief level 1 is bad, and cannot be used as often as Ken level 3 as an anti air because you need to look out for specific situations where it won't whiff, but the input itself I really don't think is that bad.

I mentioned the punk thing because you brought up how Justin Wong as an authority on why it is hard to do, never did I say "double qcf is easy because punk did it in this one instance" I just personally think they aren't

Which odd aggressive language so i can work on it in the future?

"but the input itself I really don't think is that bad."

Show me. Put your money where your mouth is. Hit it on reaction to my random jumps. Lets see it. Enough posturing about what you believe. Give me proof.

I said justin clearly thinks its not very viable because he doesn't use it himself. Showing that punk hit it one time doesnt really prove its viable or easy to do. Not to mention without seeing the clip we have no idea if he was just buffering behind something already and it wasnt reactionary.

Stuff like scrub, or cheekily saying I think I'm smarter than Jwong, and the general tone, I don't necessarily mind it, thats the internet but it is annoying when I'm not returning these sentiment.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way but I do not think I would forgive myself if I was so petty I needed to play a guy in a set to prove to him that you can anti air with super, if you really feel that way then fair enough, or maybe I don't fully understand what you mean. I really have no reason to lie to you, the discussion was about Zangief AA's and I agree level 1 is ass, but anti air with super inputs isn't anything special, sf4 had matchups that were defined by the fact "oh he has ultra/super, I can't jump ever again/use this option" and it wasn't uncommon to see people who were reliably able to input these moves (which were also hard to do in sf4) in response to jumps.

And to be clear I'm not insulting your skill the reason you struggle with it and I don't could be peripherals, the fact fireball characters can prompt jump ins way easier than Gief can or the fact I use I've conditioned myself to use super as a response to lots of things (Hazanshu, headbutt, gladius) ect. I cannot reliably always do Guile lvl 3 as anti air but I've seen it enough times to know it's just a hole I currently have.