Where are outfit 4?!

[Nice Internet Guy]

Where is it Capcom? Las year they announced them on November 21 i thought the were going to announce them last week or this one.

[ShadowSplit]

Originally posted by Peddie:

People who actually studied 3D art: "This isn't fast nor easy"
People who actually have worked on other video games: "This isn't fast nor easy"
People who write about video games for a living: "This isn't fast nor easy"
Some person on the internet who tried out Blender for an hour: "Actually this is fast and easy"

Well dang pack it up, guess this conversation's over.

If my working years taught me anything that is - never say something is easy. If you say that, there is a high chance you will find more work that you ever wanted.
The making of is not piece of cake, but it's not NASA scientist work either.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Daily Ritual Player:

Originally posted by Maverick:

I hear you, man. Sad that this situation exists. So long as some of us keep standing up to people like that, though, the forums still have hope! Keep expressing yourself, bro!

I hear you too man. We just want a medium to discuss our favorite video game and chill, not for drama, arguments and getting harassed and cyberbullied.

Don't stop posting your video game opinions and discussing the game man.

Speaking of the game, it hurts my heart how there are great Christmas costume concept art (look at Battle Pass stickers) and none of them is an actual in-game costume!!! 😭

Agreed! It’s not even like we’re asking for free stuff. We just asking for substantial content for the holidays, lmao!

[Wormerine]

Originally posted by ShadowSplit:

If my working years taught me anything that is - never say something is easy. If you say that, there is a high chance you will find more work that you ever wanted.
The making of is not piece of cake, but it's not NASA scientist work either.

My friend has a saying that I like: “If something looks easy, that means you don’t know enough about it”.

If creating such high quality asset was quick and easy, that would mean it is cheap and games in general would be of much higher fidelity than they are. Just a gulf between quality of stuff they release regularly (avatar content sold and included in the BattlePass) and skin suggests to me that they can’t hit the same level of quality of character skins when doing monthly content. There is also a quality gulf between modded costumes and official one. So while it could be possible to make a skin quickly, it doesn’t mean that hitting a higher quality won’t take time, involvement of multiple departments and iterations.

On a side, I would be interested to hear about a process of making such skin - as they become a regular feature of many games nowadays it could be interesting to learn what it takes to make one. I mean, you will never convince me that one skin is worthy of a price of a full price game, or that whole collection of skins in SF6 should cost more than the whole of SF6, but still.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Wormerine:

Originally posted by ShadowSplit:

If my working years taught me anything that is - never say something is easy. If you say that, there is a high chance you will find more work that you ever wanted.
The making of is not piece of cake, but it's not NASA scientist work either.

My friend has a saying that I like: “If something looks easy, that means you don’t know enough about it”.

If creating such high quality asset was quick and easy, that would mean it is cheap and games in general would be of much higher fidelity than they are. Just a gulf between quality of stuff they release regularly (avatar content sold and included in the BattlePass) and skin suggests to me that they can hit the level of quality of character skins when doing monthly content.

I am not saying they couldn’t produce more - I am unable to make that judgement - but it seems they are not willing or interested in producing more at the moment. Perhaps more skins would interfere with artists other responsibilities - perhaps as skins are premium items it is in their best interest to keep them valuable for longer - new outfits will naturally devalue outfits3 as “last years fashion”.

Meh, I am new to fighting games so I am not used to caring for my character skins. I am still using the default look of my main as I like it the most 🤷.

I get your friend's saying, and yes, it can apply here. Watching a 3D modeler work their magic, it might look easy, although it isn't. But there's a flipside to your friend's saying, and that is, "Just because something looks or seems difficult, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is."

No one here is saying that the job that artists at Capcom do is easy. All I'm saying, in my comments, is that it does not require as much time and monetary expense as people think. There's a big difference between the two statements.

[ShadowSplit]

Originally posted by Wormerine:

My friend has a saying that I like: “If something looks easy, that means you don’t know enough about it”.

If creating such high quality asset was quick and easy, that would mean it is cheap and games in general would be of much higher fidelity than they are. Just a gulf between quality of stuff they release regularly (avatar content sold and included in the BattlePass) and skin suggests to me that they can hit the level of quality of character skins when doing monthly content.

I am not saying they couldn’t produce more - I am unable to make that judgement - but it seems they are not willing or interested in producing more at the moment. Perhaps more skins would interfere with artists other responsibilities - perhaps as skins are premium items it is in their best interest to keep them valuable for longer - new outfits will naturally devalue outfits3 as “last years fashion”.

Meh, I am new to fighting games so I am not used to caring for my character skins. I am still using the default look of my main as I like it the most 🤷.

I agree. There are times where I started something, felt overwhelmed, but after weeks of grinding everything sets up in their place.

Well aware of that. My gripe in this case is Capcom keeps making on thing that is pretty much irrelevant to fighting games. It's relevant for RPG games, not in something like this where you have regular characters you can play. I personally can't imagine ever wish (even when I was a kid) to substitute custom with characters like Chun, Cammy, Cody, Dudley, Fei Long, etc.

I think there are several things:
First one would be constant complaining in SFV about Chun's costumes and how many others don't get much. After all, Chun is the queen of Street Fighter and a lot of her costumes are top notch.
Second would be track record they are having with SF6. People accepted SF6 too fast as the great game, making them lose drive to improve. Basically they rest on they laurels.
Third thing is production costs. Capcom is waaay to familiar how much it cost to make one costume. OK, Chun, Cammy, Juri is no brainer. But what with Dhalsim, Blanka, Jamie, etc. will their costumes justify the investment? And what happens next - another batch of complaints how they don't make costumes for characters. It's a vicious circle.

Or at least is how I see things.

[Tripas]

Originally posted by Peddie:

People who actually studied 3D art: "This isn't fast nor easy"
People who actually have worked on other video games: "This isn't fast nor easy"
People who write about video games for a living: "This isn't fast nor easy"
Some person on the internet who tried out Blender for an hour: "Actually this is fast and easy"

Well dang pack it up, guess this conversation's over.

Like Maverick said, nobody is claiming that doing any of this stuff is easy. The issue here is that's got nothing to do with the outrageous price it's being asked for these things, especially when compared to the cost of DLC in the past, and the cost of the game itself.

Because going back to the whole "one skin in SF4 (which was already expensive) used to cost about $1.25, but in this game it's 6 bucks" thing, I'm sure that games these days require more work in their costumes. But do they require five times more work? No? Then what's the justification for the 500% price increase?

And also, let's think about this: at $6 bucks a pop, that means getting the ONE outfit for each character would cost over $100 bucks. Meanwhile the base game gives you TWO outfits for each character for $60. And that's on top of all the clothing for all the avatar stuff and every single NPC in the game. Plus, ya know, the actual game itself, with the fighting mechanics, the moves, the sounds, the music, the story, the voice acting, the stages, the balancing and bug testing... everything! And you get all that for $60, but an extra set of costumes costs $100? What sense does that make?

Originally posted by Daily Ritual Player:

Yesterday he baited and got “Joey Central” banned, and the day before someone else and now he is attempting same thing with you. Everyone is the problem but him apparently this is all he does with his life. All you and other people did is express your video game opinion politely but oh well like i always keep saying: two people if perma banned this place is clean, and one of them is gone thanks to Steam Support so hope this guy follows next.

Sorry for derailing topic but this is to tell you ignore this user report and move on, they want to get you banned.

OK, if you got "baited" into getting banned, that means you did it to yourself. I disagree with Peddie a lot on what they think, but they've never been disrespectful or insulted anyone, so if you escalate it and get banned, then that's on you.

Just keep a cool head, don't assume that someone disagreeing with you means you have to be aggressive with them and things will be fine. And who knows, maybe you'll even feel a lot better when you find out you don't have to be so angry at other people all the time.

Originally posted by Wormerine:

My friend has a saying that I like: “If something looks easy, that means you don’t know enough about it”.

If creating such high quality asset was quick and easy, that would mean it is cheap and games in general would be of much higher fidelity than they are. Just a gulf between quality of stuff they release regularly (avatar content sold and included in the BattlePass) and skin suggests to me that they can’t hit the same level of quality of character skins when doing monthly content.

Yeah, that's not a matter of quality, it's just the usual way Battle Passes and the like work in videogames: they might give you some enticing stuff in the Pass so you'll buy it, but they always save the really enticing stuff to be sold piecemeal at the store for real money.

Because if you could get really good costumes/skins "for free" with your pass there would be less of an incentive to spend real money in the store. After all, if you've already got a look you like from the Battle Pass why would you spend money on another one?

[Peddie]

Originally posted by Tripas:

Like Maverick said, nobody is claiming that doing any of this stuff is easy. The issue here is that's got nothing to do with the outrageous price it's being asked for these things, especially when compared to the cost of DLC in the past, and the cost of the game itself.

Because going back to the whole "one skin in SF4 (which was already expensive) used to cost about $1.25, but in this game it's 6 bucks" thing, I'm sure that games these days require more work in their costumes. But do they require five times more work? No? Then what's the justification for the 500% price increase?

And also, let's think about this: at $6 bucks a pop, that means getting the ONE outfit for each character would cost over $100 bucks. Meanwhile the base game gives you TWO outfits for each character for $60. And that's on top of all the clothing for all the avatar stuff and every single NPC in the game. Plus, ya know, the actual game itself, with the fighting mechanics, the moves, the sounds, the music, the story, the voice acting, the stages, the balancing and bug testing... everything! And you get all that for $60, but an extra set of costumes costs $100? What sense does that make?

Well to me it makes sense given the obvious craftsmanship going into the costumes. I also don't expect to own all the costumes. I don't even play all characters, and with like, Marisa, I think her default costume is the best one, so why should I buy the third costume? And if you really want them all you can always stagger out your purchases so it's not $100+ all at once. Owning all costumes would only really make sense to TOs and folks running locals, and they can just ask attending players for contributions to help facilitate the purchase if the players really want to use the same costume they have at home.

Heck, if it were my call I'd keep the costumes priced as is but make characters cheaper because characters have an actual impact on gameplay. Costumes are just a cute little vanity thing to help express yourself. But they're not a crucial part of the experience.

I also presume that Capcom priced the game at $60 where other games have been going for $70 and some even flirting with $80 on the assumption that they could tempt people into getting the season pass and/or the third costumes after getting a taste of the game.

And it apparently worked? I remember them saying around the start of the year that the costumes sold way, way beyond their expectations, which in itself is all the encouragement Capcom would need to not lower the price, it already made them a gazillion bucks as is. Which arguably makes the fact there's no fourth costumes yet all the more confusing but hey, what's a video game publisher without a few confusing decisions? At least they're not Ubisoft or Squenix somehow being the last company to still believe in NFTs.

[Wormerine]

Originally posted by ShadowSplit:

Well aware of that. My gripe in this case is Capcom keeps making on thing that is pretty much irrelevant to fighting games. It's relevant for RPG games, not in something like this where you have regular characters you can play. I personally can't imagine ever wish (even when I was a kid) to substitute custom with characters like Chun, Cammy, Cody, Dudley, Fei Long, etc.

I hear you. Customisability of the Avatar doesn’t mean much to me neither.

If I were to guess, I don’t think it’s Capcom putting Avatar cosmetics over character Cosmetics - it’s Capcom wanting to have live-servicey elements (BattlePass, regular drop of cosmetics and items) without having to maintain a massive production machine require to actually pump out content for the life service.

No one disputed an observation I made so let me take a following statement and assumption as a certainty for a reasoning that follows:
“Cosmetics made for Avatars are of lower fidelity, and therefore are quicker and cheaper to make”.

If we agree on that, let me follow with a question:
“Would you be happy with character costumes of the same level of quality and jank as Avatar stuff for the main roster to be used in competitive play?”

I read some people thinking that, but personally I think that would be detrimental - poorly done and janky costumes could get in a way of competitive gameplay (and arguably at least one Outfit3 already does that), and would be a poor advertisement for SF6 when seen by potential customers. Jank is fine in highly casual Avatar battles - it is less acceptable in matches proper.

[that said Avatar and character costumes are also different things, and I have no clue how it impacts their development - one needs to fit into highly customisable NPCs, while the other is made for an existing model, with a more limited les of animations]

Here is another question: could Capcom scrap Avatar stuff altogether and let’s say deliver an extra outfit per year? Personally, my guess would be that those two aren’t equivalent workload wise, but even if it would be possible, Capcom would then abandon their daily/weekly/monthly engagement rewards, or at least completely rework them. And I am not sure they want that - whenever one cares for cosmetics or not, getting something on regular basis is a powerful tool to have people hooked, therefore increasing likeness they will buy content proper (character passes, character costumes). Of course, they COULD just produce content we want and foster regular engagement by allowing us to earn stiff we want through gameplay, but that’s not a business model they went for.

Changing a train of thought from “why Capcom could not be able to do more” to “what Capcom could potentially do more”:

While I don’t like how expensive skins are I do admit most/all of them are of quite high quality - I do wonder if Capcom could do less elaborate costumes as well, and selling them cheaper or in packs, like they used to. I am of general attitude that “less
Is more” but I think a lot of folks would be happy with more variety, even if some costume were much simpler. As long as they are not priced the same as premiums, of course.

[ShadowSplit]

Originally posted by Wormerine:

I hear you. Customisability of the Avatar doesn’t mean much to me neither.

If I were to guess, I don’t think it’s Capcom putting Avatar cosmetics over character Cosmetics - it’s Capcom wanting to have live-servicey elements (BattlePass, regular drop of cosmetics and items) without having to maintain a massive production machine require to actually pump out content for the life service.

No one disputed an observation I made so let me take a following statement and assumption as a certainty for a reasoning that follows:
“Cosmetics made for Avatars are of lower fidelity, and therefore are quicker and cheaper to make”.

If we agree on that, let me follow with a question:
“Would you be happy with character costumes of the same level of quality and jank as Avatar stuff for the main roster to be used in competitive play?”

I read some people thinking that, but personally I think that would be detrimental - poorly done and janky costumes could get in a way of competitive gameplay (and arguably at least one Outfit3 already does that), and would be a poor advertisement for SF6 when seen by potential customers. Jank is fine in highly casual Avatar battles - it is less acceptable in matches proper.

[that said Avatar and character costumes are also different things, and I have no clue how it impacts their development - one needs to fit into highly customisable NPCs, while the other is made for an existing model, with a more limited les of animations]

Here is another question: could Capcom scrap Avatar stuff altogether and let’s say deliver an extra outfit per year? Personally, my guess would be that those two aren’t equivalent workload wise, but even if it would be possible, Capcom would then abandon their daily/weekly/monthly engagement rewards, or at least completely rework them. And I am not sure they want that - whenever one cares for cosmetics or not, getting something on regular basis is a powerful tool to have people hooked, therefore increasing likeness they will buy content proper (character passes, character costumes). Of course, they COULD just produce content we want and foster regular engagement by allowing us to earn stiff we want through gameplay, but that’s not a business model they went for.

Changing a train of thought from “why Capcom could not be able to do more” to “what Capcom could potentially do more”:

While I don’t like how expensive skins are I do admit most/all of them are of quite high quality - I do wonder if Capcom could do less elaborate costumes as well, and selling them cheaper or in packs, like they used to. I am of general attitude that “less
Is more” but I think a lot of folks would be happy with more variety, even if some costume were much simpler. As long as they are not priced the same as premiums, of course.

The question is would live service approach could be done differently? SF6 is not F2P.

Depends on a costume. SF6 doesn't allow taking screenshots in various poses by itself, like for example Soulcalibur VI allows with Ansel. So having really high quality costumes is somewhat irrelevant. However, they can make pretty good quality costumes. They wouldn't be OMG, but would still keep nice fidelity.

Well, yes. BIg or janky costumes can hinder gameplay. And that's why you keep their design functional, not extravagant. T8 has, for characters, also high quality costumes, yet some designs are truly a nightmate when it comes to fight that characters. Like Devil Jin. In some motions, his wings make distance estimation difficult. Or Heihachi Monk robe.

They could, but would they? Or maybe they can't come up with some designs that might satisfy masses. I mean, why not remaking Chun's Battle costume from SFV?
From what I can see in various forums, Capcom's already dancing on a thin edge when it comes to avatar stuff and lack of characters' costumes. Maybe us, regular players, aren't strong enough. But some high profile players already rose their voice, and that is something Capcom will pay attention to.

Whatever reason might be, they better make some great costumes. And make them fast. This avatar nonsense ran its course.

[Tripas]

Originally posted by Peddie:

Well to me it makes sense given the obvious craftsmanship going into the costumes. I also don't expect to own all the costumes. I don't even play all characters, and with like, Marisa, I think her default costume is the best one, so why should I buy the third costume?

And again, is the craftsmanship of Outift 3 several orders of magnitude better than what we got in the base game? Because if it isn't, then why isn't the base game being sold for hundreds and hundreds of dollars? I mean, they also had to put in a lot hard work into all those models and items of clothing, but they're not adding 6 bucks to the asking price for each one of them either.

Or, to go with another example, let's use the Ultimate passes as a measuring stick:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2825200/Street_Fighter_6__Year_2_Ultimate_Pass/

Now, I also have issues with the pricing for these things. You're paying almost as much as the base game for just 3 characters (with 12 outfits), and 2 stages? When the base game gives you 16 characters (each with two outfits), 15 stages (IIRC) and everything else in the game? for just 10 bucks more? Something feels off there.

So I'm already presenting you with something which feels overpriced as a standard, but when you think about it... they had to make 12 different outfits for these characters. If they sold each outfit at the $6 which they're supposedly worth you'd be paying $72 for them, and that's before you get to the characters, their moves, and everything else that's in that pass.

So how come those outfits don't cost $6 a pop? Are they just of lower quality? No, it's just that $6 is how much Capcom feels they can get away with because people aren't critical enough of their business practices. So again, they charge that must not because it's what they need to, but because it's what they want to.

Originally posted by Peddie:

And if you really want them all you can always stagger out your purchases so it's not $100+ all at once.

$100 over a longer period of time is still $100. Breaking it down into instalments might give you the illusion that it's softening the blow, but that's because it distracts you from the bigger picture that you're still spending that much money.

Also, I can afford $100 for DLC just fine. I just refuse to spend that much on something that's clearly not worth that much, and is just being priced that way because he publishers feel they can get away with it.

Originally posted by Peddie:

Heck, if it were my call I'd keep the costumes priced as is but make characters cheaper because characters have an actual impact on gameplay. Costumes are just a cute little vanity thing to help express yourself. But they're not a crucial part of the experience.

So... you think the costumes are fine as they are because "they're hard to make and take a ton of work to get right", but the characters with all their moves, balancing, and everything else which requires a lot more work should be cheaper?

Granted, there might be a point to be made that the characters themselves might be overpriced. I just don't get the logic of saying that the characters should be cheaper, but we mustn't touch the price on the cosmetics, because they just take too much time and work to get right.

Originally posted by Peddie:

I also presume that Capcom priced the game at $60 where other games have been going for $70 and some even flirting with $80 on the assumption that they could tempt people into getting the season pass and/or the third costumes after getting a taste of the game.

Honestly, given how much extra money Capcom makes on a regular basis with all the outside advertisement they shove into this full-price game, they don't need to charge more than $60. And that's before you even get into the Season passes and DLC packs.

Originally posted by Peddie:

At least they're not Ubisoft or Squenix somehow being the last company to still believe in NFTs.

Just because there are way worse companies doesn't make the ones who aren't as bad suddenly good. And also, the way companies like Activion and Ubisoft got to the way they are is because they got away with it.

They kept pushing and pushing on what was acceptable, maybe reeling back a bit when they got too far and got some backlash, but then diving back in and continuing to gradually push that line on what the gaming community would accept.

That's how we've gone from "man, getting all these DLC outfits costs HALF as much as the base game, that seems too much" in Street Fighter 4, to "wait, getting all these DLC outfits costs WAY MORE than the base game? Are you freaking serious?" in Street Fighter 6. And that's on top of all the other revenue streams they have, like the avatar stuff, the season passes, the emotes and music sales, the constant advertisements shoved in our faces...

And the more excuses we make for them, the more we continue to go "oh well, these things cost money to make", the more they'll keep pushing and the worse things will get in the future for all of us.

[Peddie]

Originally posted by Tripas:

So... you think the costumes are fine as they are because "they're hard to make and take a ton of work to get right", but the characters with all their moves, balancing, and everything else which requires a lot more work should be cheaper?

Granted, there might be a point to be made that the characters themselves might be overpriced. I just don't get the logic of saying that the characters should be cheaper, but we mustn't touch the price on the cosmetics, because they just take too much time and work to get right.

See my point is more that I consider characters an essential part of the game, and as such I'd rather see them be affordable to everyone. Although I presume that if you could afford the PS5 or gaming PC and the $60 base game that $30 annually for four characters should be perfectly doable as well if you really just want every character selectable for labbing purposes. Personally I haven't bought the year 2 pass yet because I only plan to play Elena out of it, and everyone else I can practice against between replay takeovers and asking some of my SF diehard friends if they want to do a quick FT5 with me where they play the latest characters.

But going back what I meant, costumes are a luxury good, they're less crucial to the experience than characters, so I can accept them being priced accordingly. And as far as luxury goods go, a decent lunch's worth is not too bad. Especially if we compare it to some other popular games like DBD where costumes cost more than the characters you're getting them for, while being worse put together than the the SF6 costumes.

Maybe I'm just weirdly resistant to FOMO or something but, I legit never felt the need to have all the costumes. If you get a Sears catalogue in your mailbox (ignoring they don't do that any more) you don't want to own the entire contents of the catalogue either, right? So presently I just own 4/22 of the available third costumes and I think I got my money's worth, considering I've spent more than the $24 needed on going out for dinner, and these costumes sure have lasted longer than that dinner did.

[Pikachu]

There are not outfit 4 Capcom said this will have only 3 cosmetic piece per character

[Tripas]

Originally posted by Peddie:

But going back what I meant, costumes are a luxury good, they're less crucial to the experience than characters, so I can accept them being priced accordingly.

Freaking everything in videogames is a luxury good. The ability to play a videogame is a luxury. Doesn't mean that you can just charge whatever you want and we have to be OK with it.

Originally posted by Peddie:

Especially if we compare it to some other popular games like DBD where costumes cost more than the characters you're getting them for, while being worse put together than the the SF6 costumes.

Yeah, and that's why I don't spend real money on DBD outfits either (don't know why you're spoiler-tagging that BTW). 10 bucks for some fancy clothes? 15 for the really cool stuff like an Alucard or William Birkin (from Resident Evil) skin? Yeah, no, they can get bent with that.

But then again, you can still buy any (non-licensed) cosmetics with the iridescent shards you get from just playing the game. And the Season Pass actually has some pretty cool outfits which you can get from just playing the game. So it still has a better way to unlock new stuff as it comes out than Street Fighter VI does.

Originally posted by Peddie:

Maybe I'm just weirdly resistant to FOMO or something but, I legit never felt the need to have all the costumes. If you get a Sears catalogue in your mailbox (ignoring they don't do that any more) you don't want to own the entire contents of the catalogue either, right?

I mean, some people DO collect items of clothing, like shoes and whatever. And if collector shoes suddenly became 500% more expensive than they used to be, I'm pretty sure that community wouldn't just shrug it off with a "oh well, they're luxury items anyway".

And people like having all the costumes because that's how videogames used to be. You'd get a game and you could then get a full collection through gameplay. Some players are completionists for a reason.

Now, if you want to make extra content after the game was released and sell it, that's fine. But if you're going to be greedy with your pricing, then we have every right to be upset about it.

Originally posted by Peddie:

So presently I just own 4/22 of the available third costumes and I think I got my money's worth, considering I've spent more than the $24 needed on going out for dinner, and these costumes sure have lasted longer than that dinner did.

Yeah, but if we didn't keep rolling over and letting companies like Capcom get away with this, you could have bought many, many more outfits with those $24. Or alternatively you could have bought them for a fraction of what you paid for them.

But if we keep buying them, they're just going to keep getting more expensive as we continue to make more excuses for their greed.

Originally posted by sillycarcosa:

There are not outfit 4 Capcom said this will have only 3 cosmetic piece per character

Do you have a source for that? Because that sounds really weird coming from Capcom.

I mean, like I've said before Capcom doesn't need any of these overpriced outfits, they already make money out their ears with every other monetization scheme they have going on right now, but it's weird to see them leaving money on the table like that.

[Peddie]

I mean, companies like to make money, what do you want? But as you said way earlier, polygon counts have risen dramatically since SFIV, Chun-Li's arms basically have more triangles in it than all of IV Chun-Li. Texture resolutions have also gone up, and in general SFIV uses a less detailed aesthetic and you certainly didn't have physics on every sleeve and pants leg.

So a price hike kind of seems normal as the effort involve has also gone dramatically up?

We also need to consider the circumstances under which SFIV was made. After the commercial failure of SFIII and the critical and commercial failure of Capcom Fighting Jam pushing them out of the 2D fighting space once and for all they had to recapture their audience. So they couldn't make things too pricey. But also it was outsourced to Dimps which tells me that they wanted this to be a cheap project in general. Now we have Capcom back on their A game for the first time this century when it comes to a fighting game.

And perhaps one thing to consider, IV definitely went with quality over quantity, throwing pack after pack at you, ending up with all costumes combined still being close to $150 so a FOMO haver still would've been deeply in the hole. And for people who just wanted THE ONE COSTUME things weren't much better either because you could only buy the pack, not any individual costume. So if the above claim is true about there never being a fourth costume drop (seems doubtful though), SF6 will have had cheaper costume DLC in total than IV.

Possibly more amusingly, in the initial release of IV if another player hadn't bought the pack as well they couldn't even see your costume in online play because the original model of the 360 still launched with memory cards rather than a proper hard drive so they weren't going to make you download any more data than the absolute necessary. So you were essentially buying costumes you couldn't even flaunt to others.

One final note, in SFV costumes were $5 so in that regard things have hardly changed between the most recent two games, which seems a far more fair comparison than with a fifteen year old game from a bygone era. (It was still outsourced to Dimps though)

[Tripas]

Originally posted by Peddie:

I mean, companies like to make money, what do you want? But as you said way earlier, polygon counts have risen dramatically since SFIV, Chun-Li's arms basically have more triangles in it than all of IV Chun-Li. Texture resolutions have also gone up, and in general SFIV uses a less detailed aesthetic and you certainly didn't have physics on every sleeve and pants leg.

So a price hike kind of seems normal as the effort involve has also gone dramatically up?

And again I have to repeat myself: if costs have increased so much why aren't games charging 5 times as much as they did 20 years ago?

And yes, games cost more to make than back in the day. But they also sell exponentially more than they did back then. The video game industry has never made as much money from the sales of video games alone, and that's before all the egregious monetization and "recurrent spending" schemes they've got going on.

You think any of the big companies who only see dollar signs would have stuck around if they weren't making money hand over fist, even with the increased production costs? Hell no. They would have bailed a long time ago, and the only ones sticking around would have been the indie studios.

Originally posted by Peddie:

We also need to consider the circumstances under which SFIV was made. After the commercial failure of SFIII and the critical and commercial failure of Capcom Fighting Jam pushing them out of the 2D fighting space once and for all they had to recapture their audience. So they couldn't make things too pricey.

But they did. Like I said I still remember when those packs came out and Capcom was already being accused of pushing it with their microtransactions. Of course they look positively benign in comparison to what we have today, but that's just a sad indictment of how far we've let videogame publishers' greed run rampant.

Originally posted by Peddie:

And perhaps one thing to consider, IV definitely went with quality over quantity, throwing pack after pack at you, ending up with all costumes combined still being close to $150 so a FOMO haver still would've been deeply in the hole.

Yeah, you'd get close to $150 if you went out of your way to buy them all in the most expensive way possible, individually, instead of getting them in those nice little packs which bundle them all together. You know about packs, right? The thing people miss a lot when they look at the price of the SF6 outfits?

And EVEN THEN, even if you did go out of your way to buy that DLC in the way that's worst for your own interests, you'd still be buying FOUR sets of DLC costumes for just a little over what costs you to get the ONE set we have for SF6. And all we need is for Capcom to actually do an Outfit 4 Set for the sum total to go to $200, which is way over all the DLC for SFIV (if you bought it in the worst possible way).

God help us if they actually make 4 sets like they did with SFIV. Then people who want to get everything would need to spend $400, which certainly puts that $150 into perspective, now doesn't it?

Originally posted by Peddie:

And for people who just wanted THE ONE COSTUME things weren't much better either because you could only buy the pack, not any individual costume.

Oh no, how terrible. So for less than the cost of ONE SF6 costume they could get the outfit they wanted AND 3 or 4 extra ones. No, please don't bring that system to SF6, that sounds aaaaawful.

Not to mention that if you wanted to buy a pack you just had to pay for the pack you wanted. Not have to deal with this nonsense of spending $10 in Fighter Coins just so you can spend $6 on the one thing you actually want. Then those $4 just stay there to rot, and maybe even expire completely in time, like they do in Japan.

So, to summarise, the amount of money you actually have to spend to get just one character outfit in SF6 is how much we used to spend to get between 8 and 10 back in the day, and we still got to keep $2 in our actual pockets.

Yeah, I'm becoming less and less convinced that this is all a result of "there's just more polygons and hair physics now".

Originally posted by Peddie:

One final note, in SFV costumes were $5 so in that regard things have hardly changed between the most recent two games, which seems a far more fair comparison than with a fifteen year old game from a bygone era. (It was still outsourced to Dimps though)

And that's just Reason #584 why SFV is garbage. So that's not really much of a defence.