Tokido says Fighting Games were easier back in the day

[Sandy]

To all of you who say that current fighting games are a lot easier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVx8sQ3FNuc&ab_channel=JustinWong

[Sixtyfivekills]

SF6 IS a lot easier compared to previous entries and nobody can convince me otherwise.

[Sandy]

Originally posted by Sixtyfivekills:

SF6 IS a lot easier compared to previous entries and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Nah, Tokido says that the amount of mechanics that SF6 has makes it the hardest SF to date.
You need to think faster, react faster and consider a lot more things.

Old games are very cheap and it's easy to win in them.

[Rhomak]

sure, sfv was ♥♥♥♥ tho worst sf to date

[AGA | prinnyuber]

Hmmm...how come it sounds so scripted like their sponsors are holding up the cue cards?

[OgichiGame]

I mean, he's right.
People saying otherwise aren't being objective.
There is so much more going on and to consider in every interaction, and the game is so much faster paced. Like it's genuinely hard to take your time and feel out your opponent

The only real argument I've heard for the game being easier is the input reader is a bit more lenient so it's easier to execute specials, but like, so what? The mental stack is way higher.

[Danny DeVito with a Gun]

Originally posted by Sixtyfivekills:

SF6 IS a lot easier compared to previous entries and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Execution is objectively easier and will continue to get easier. It’s the competition that has made new FGs harder. It’s harder to get consistent results

Fighting games back in the day were “easier” because the average player was worse. Top players had knowledge on things a regular player wouldn’t, so the gap was higher and certain players dominated more. Objectively though, the game’s were absolutely harder. Older titles are way more documented now and that isn’t much of an issue anymore. If players had the amount of documentation older titles have now, the gap would not have been as huge. Someone picking up 3S now will have a way easier time than 25 years ago

This isn’t some “old game good, new game bad” or vise versa point I’m trying to make. It’s just how it is. Plenty of newer titles I prefer to old ones, and there’s some new titles that I don’t enjoy at all

[Sixtyfivekills]

Originally posted by Danny DeVito with a Gun:

Originally posted by Sixtyfivekills:

SF6 IS a lot easier compared to previous entries and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Execution is objectively easier and will continue to get easier. It’s the competition that has made new FGs harder. It’s harder to get consistent results

Fighting games back in the day were “easier” because the average player was worse. Top players had knowledge on things a regular player wouldn’t, so the gap was higher and certain players dominated more. Objectively though, the game’s were absolutely harder. Older titles are way more documented now and that isn’t much of an issue anymore. If players had the amount of documentation older titles have now, the gap would not have been as huge. Someone picking up 3S now will have a way easier time than 25 years ago

This isn’t some “old game good, new game bad” or vise versa point I’m trying to make. It’s just how it is. Plenty of newer titles I prefer to old ones, and there’s some new titles that I don’t enjoy at all

I went with the mindset of "what if previous SF entries came out nowadays and were just as popular", because right off the bat I can confidently say that I'd be nowhere near as good as I'd say I am in SF6.


Yes, my previous knowledge certainly helps and I can't tell how it'd be for non fighting game players to jump in SF6, but at least compared to my previous experiences I'd say this is by far the easiest one. SF4 was a hard game, I got my ass handed to me most the time, SF5 was easier and I jumped in by the end of season 5 and peaked at Super Gold, but SF6? Easy master rank. If I were to jump back to either of these games now I promise you it wouldn't be different.


That's just SF too, the series I am most familiar with, even jumping into the latest Guilty Gear entry was complete night and day difference compared to finding a match in AC or Xrd where I didn't get a chance to play.


Look its late, I don't know what I'm saying and I'm probably contradicting myself all over the place but what I want to say is, even if all these games were fresh I'd feel like I wouldn't be able to achieve anything close to what I managed to do in SF6.

[Peddie]

He's talking from the perspective of competing, which yes, it's gotten harder to stay at the top, much less get top the top, because the average skill level has gone up considerably in combination with the data needed to get good being more accessible than ever, it's rough out there for an old god.

But to get ~into~ SF6 is one of the easiest because even with the myriad of mechanics that the older games didn't have, all the information you need is there for you in the game, you won't need to rely on external sources to figure any part of the game out which is what makes the difference. Most players playing SF6 probably don't even know Supercombo exists, and similar resources didn't even exist during the height of games like Third Strike or CvS2, your one and only resources were grinding the game into dust so you built that encyclopaedic understanding of its systems yourself or surround yourself with other players of similar dedication so you could pool your knowledge. Which is also why Japan has been a dominant force for so long, very dense cities with a(n at the time) booming arcade scene, nowhere else were you going to be able to get dedicated players in a single room to that extent. All of that is no longer needed and you can indeed notice the old gods are having to try much harder to stay relevant in this new world. It's harder for them because getting very skilled at the game has become easier.

I'd still probably recommend GBVSR over SF6 for someone new to fighting games but if someone really wants to learn Street Fighter in particular I'd still recommend them SF6 over like, Third Strike or even my personal favourites SFA2 and CvS2. And that is indeed, because at no point will I have to tell them "Okay if you want to get serious about this you'll need to go check this wiki", that just makes it feel like homework.

[ShadowSplit]

No, they were not. Just you had one game for number of years and characters stayed the same. Today you learn one character and how to counter others, then after few months you have another patch that changes properties of attacks, then you adjust once again. Then you have another patch, and something is broken so you have to grind again. And then they fix broken stuff, so you retrace your steps in learning.
Then there is another balance patch and another, and another.

Back in the day I could play, stop playing for several months and come back to continue where I stopped.

Fact that developers half-a55 most releases and balance patches in next year or so is different story.

[OyajiBR☕]

Was he drunk? Fighting games were harder even on easy mode. I play SF Alpha 3 Max (bigger roster version) on PSP and Super SF2 Turbo and SF3 3rd Strike on Dreamcast, all on EASY mode, and I still suffer. But SF5 and SF6 I win on hard.
*I use RetroArch to play the classics, it's authorised and free on Steam, highly recommend it. 30th Anniversary has arcade versions, too hard and less content.

[Peddie]

I don't think Tokido's touched an arcade mode in the last 20 years outside of waiting for human opponents so that's not what he was on about.

[kuaikukia]

Tokido probably mean objectively like the game mechanic isn't particular hard back in old days. Yea, old days FG games are hard due to combo are very hard to pull, the game kinda faster and have some clunky hitbox. But the mechanic doesn't particular hard where playing old FG game mostly just need to manage 1 super bar. SF4 already introduce super, Ultra and invinsible stun gauge. Also universal mechanic like FADC and FA. In SF6, there has many thing on there DR, DI, Parry, Perfect Parry, 3 super, wall splat and burnout to stun.

[June Moone]

They aren't harder in the sense of you, the scrub, can perform on a pro level, it's because there are so many help mechanics that make scrubs like you able to compete with pros. IF all of SF6 players were forced to go back to SF4, almost 90% of you wouldn't make it past like 1200 PP. Games have implemented so many mechanics to even the board. You can't convience me SF6 is harder when SF4 had 1 frame links and SF6 at best, has 4 frame links.

[Sandy]

Originally posted by June Moone:

They aren't harder in the sense of you, the scrub, can perform on a pro level, it's because there are so many help mechanics that make scrubs like you able to compete with pros. IF all of SF6 players were forced to go back to SF4, almost 90% of you wouldn't make it past like 1200 PP. Games have implemented so many mechanics to even the board. You can't convience me SF6 is harder when SF4 had 1 frame links and SF6 at best, has 4 frame links.

1 frame links are a lot easier though. Don't even need to worry about timing.

[Sandy]

And no SF6 mechanic gives a scrub an ability to compete with the pros lol.

Any pro will wash all scrubs.
Imagine thinking that because you have something like drive impact then you can go toe to toe with the pros.