Tekken 8 is coming, Crapcom

[timemystic]

Street fighter 6 was a hyped addition to the FGC in it's early days. Everything was new and exciting. The meta caters to only a few select type of fighters and soon it was obvious that only 1/3 of the roster was competitively in tournaments. Let this be a lesson that hubris is never a good thing - Streetfighter - S3X 1/24/24 may you rest in green slime.

[Tsaalyo]

Can't wait for Tekken 8 to arrive, so all the people whining about SF6 will actually just go play it.

...of course, then they'll just spend months posting here about how much fun they're having playing Tekken 8. And who knows what violent coping tantrums they'll throw when SF6 wins out in player retention.

[Schizm]

Originally posted by -Vupny-:

Originally posted by Schizm:

Tekken 8 has bad netcode, SF6 doesn't. There isn't much competition.

1. The game hasn't even released yet, do you have a time machine? No, a CBT doesn't count. 2. I don't know anyone else's experience but my netcode experience has gotten worse with each update, it's gotten to the point where I always deny Wi-Fi players.

Sorry but the netcode isn't changing from the CBT. You don't decide to start adjusting the netcode a few months before release this is a day 1 of pre production thing. Its not changing and if you think otherwise you are ignorant.

[Schizm]

Originally posted by timemystic:

7 was excellent and 8 will be excellent too. Tekken's online in beta was fine save for the 1 bar wifi connections. It has rollback. Offline tournaments will be exciting just like 7, more exciting than SF6 online tournaments.

It doesn't have proper rollback, it has a very shoddily implemented version where there is still variable input delay depending on the connection which is the thing rollback was designed to solve.

[Schizm]

Originally posted by -Vupny-:

Originally posted by HomongUS:

Yep, The very reason Tekken8 is keeping their tournaments offline. Could suffer the same fate as MK1 tbh.

Here's the thing though, comparing netcode between Tekken and SF is just dumb. SF has "good netcode" because it's a simple and linear 2D fighter with slight background effects.

Tekken has transition, cutscenes, major background effects, more movement to process, etc, in other words, more load. It's too bad that the idiots in this forum won't understand this though.

The more rollback that gets involved in Tekken's netcode, the more teleportation happens if players move fast (kbd, fast wavedashes in succession etc), so more rollback, means worse online experience.

I'll say for the 100th time. The netcode is fine, for a 3D fighter it's pretty good.

You know this BS has been spread so much by people who legit dont know what they are talking about.

There is no difference between 2D and 3D fighting games when it comes to netcode dude. This is a lie that Harada has spread and ignorant tekken players have accepted wholesale without a shred of critical thinking skills. We have 3 3D fighting games on Fightcade 2 right now that work flawlessly and we have a beta version of Duckstation that runs Tekken 3 with rollback and it works way better than Tekken 8.

Transitions don't matter all you have to do is delay any sudden camera movements by a few frames and the problem is fixed.

Cutscenes don't matter I don't know why you brought this up they are literally a non factor.

Background effects don't matter the only thing that could happen here is visual issues if the effects are sudden which can be solved by making sure any flashy effects are delayed by a couple of frames before they happen. Its a nonissue.

"More movement to process" This doesn't matter people over estimate how complex Tekken 8s movement is there isn't a lot of process here, you press a button and you move in a direction. Rollback handles it fine, as mentioned before 3 3D fighting games have it on Fightcade one of which is Soul Caliber which has far more ♥♥♥♥♥ movement than Tekken 8. Tekken 3 also has it so you know doop doop poop.

Sorry but your understanding of how rollback works is non existent, any connection that would be unplayable and bad in rollback would be literally unplayable in any connection regardless of netcode.

Do me a favor, please just don't talk about this stuff if you don't have even a passing understanding of what your talking about. Its getting frustrating constantly having to correct misinformation.

[timemystic]

Originally posted by Peddie:

Originally posted by Double Jump:

What I really don't understand is, why these Tekken fanboys are so passionate about creeping the SF forums. It just puzzles me. I'm really into SF, I see no reason to go and annoy the tekken forums, I'd rather play my game and hang out in the SF forums. Tekken is not even the same subgenre. What are you doing here aside from embarrassing yourself? Go and play Tekken!

Insecurity, I imagine. They want to believe that they only play the best of the best games so to help nurse that sentiment other games in the genre, no matter how loosely related, have to be bad, especially games that are having very apparent success, which just cannot stand because that might, maybe, just maybe, mean they put their eggs in the wrong basket in wanting to play the best game of all games.

So maybe it might look like they're spending incredible amounts of energy this past half year trying to convince us that SF6 is a terrible game that is going to fail any second now despite having the best retention rates in Steam fighting game history, they are really trying to convince themselves that SF6 is a far worse game than Tekken 8 is going to be no matter how pointless of a comparison it is to make between a 2D and 3D fighter.

And as a lifelong Virtua Fighter fan I say, lol, lmao. I didn't care I was the only kid in middle school that knew what Virtua Fighter 3 was, I was having fun pressing buttons yo. Why waste time convincing people that the game they're enjoying is worse? It doesn't make your game better, it doesn't make the game you don't like worse, all you're achieving is people like you less. If something they like isn't actively harming others, just let them enjoy it even if it is trash according to you.

I have SF6 and will get T8. There was no "eggs in one basket" lmao. FGC is actually a smaller group than you think that interplay and gossip about all FG's look at the FGC YT personalities, they all play and gossip about all. I'm not heavily invested in anything. The fact that SF6 could have been Great but as meta and tier list matured, it was apparent that it is just another modern FG (Sparse paid content, 1 update a year, no balance patches). Tekken 8 is coming and they have been successful. MK1 sold more quickly than SF6. All these FG's are taking profits of SF6 in some way or another because sales going forward will be affected by playerbase that chooses to focus (buy Passes and DLC) on another FG because money and time is finite. Heck, even Mods are apparently taking profits off of SF6 enough to get them to inject antimod.

[Peddie]

I'm impressed that quantum computing has come so far that we can get forum posts from parallel dimensions where all of this is accurate.

[Legendary Mr. Tiddles]

Originally posted by Peddie:

I'm impressed that quantum computing has come so far that we can get forum posts from parallel dimensions where all of this is accurate.

Neat!

[uuuhdavid]

i will play and thoroughly enjoy both

[Peddie]

That's the spirit~

[mraz]

Originally posted by kiteless 凧無し:

SF6 netcode is so perfect professional player default to the ugly training stage to minimise lag. I really like watching Daigo's stream and getting my retina's burnt out by this horrible background.

To think arena background has anything to do with the netcode you must have negative iq. Must be hard to understand for regular anime enjoyer.

Btw 2 people in SF6 playing can see different backgrounds, you can see one arena background and your opponent other background he chose, because such things are client-side.

[天佑中共🐥the light]

dang why SF players eating each other

[CrimsonZako]

Originally posted by Schizm:

Originally posted by -Vupny-:

Here's the thing though, comparing netcode between Tekken and SF is just dumb. SF has "good netcode" because it's a simple and linear 2D fighter with slight background effects.

Tekken has transition, cutscenes, major background effects, more movement to process, etc, in other words, more load. It's too bad that the idiots in this forum won't understand this though.

The more rollback that gets involved in Tekken's netcode, the more teleportation happens if players move fast (kbd, fast wavedashes in succession etc), so more rollback, means worse online experience.

I'll say for the 100th time. The netcode is fine, for a 3D fighter it's pretty good.

You know this BS has been spread so much by people who legit dont know what they are talking about.

There is no difference between 2D and 3D fighting games when it comes to netcode dude. This is a lie that Harada has spread and ignorant tekken players have accepted wholesale without a shred of critical thinking skills. We have 3 3D fighting games on Fightcade 2 right now that work flawlessly and we have a beta version of Duckstation that runs Tekken 3 with rollback and it works way better than Tekken 8.

Sorry but your understanding of how rollback works is non existent, any connection that would be unplayable and bad in rollback would be literally unplayable in any connection regardless of netcode.

Do me a favor, please just don't talk about this stuff if you don't have even a passing understanding of what your talking about. Its getting frustrating constantly having to correct misinformation.

Oh boy, so much confidence yet so much wrong.

Let's learn what rollback netcode is. The really simple version is rollback tries to predict what the player will do based on possible outcomes. If it guessed wrong it "rolls back" to the incorrect frame and realigns. When it works well the player never sees the incorrect prediction.

One of the issues the Tekken team has spoken about is the high amount of inputs from something like KBD and other movement techniques. Also a 2d game just has less possibilities at any moment compared to Tekken. Rollback has far more possibilities to anticipate in a 3d game.

Then there's the things that Tekken has to deal with as a series, each character can do at least 40 moves while standing up alone. With characters like Mishimas, they could start wavedashing at any time and their crouch dash speeds can differ greatly. Then with lateral movement, you could be side stepping left or right, or side-walking left or right. And how long could you be side walking for? Does your character have any specific moves they can only do from side steps? Possibilities are endless bro.

I've even seen some Reddit posts of actual rollback netcode workers complaining how it's a headache to impliment rollback on a 3D fighting game yet it doesn't fit equally. If you wanna argue against that then go waste their time.

Again, the rollback is FINE. It's not "top-notch" like SF obviously, but it's not "trash" like most idiots say, it's just a trend to say, get over it. I'm leaving this here lmao.

[vthemighty]

Originally posted by -Vupny-:

Originally posted by Schizm:

You know this BS has been spread so much by people who legit dont know what they are talking about.

There is no difference between 2D and 3D fighting games when it comes to netcode dude. This is a lie that Harada has spread and ignorant tekken players have accepted wholesale without a shred of critical thinking skills. We have 3 3D fighting games on Fightcade 2 right now that work flawlessly and we have a beta version of Duckstation that runs Tekken 3 with rollback and it works way better than Tekken 8.

Sorry but your understanding of how rollback works is non existent, any connection that would be unplayable and bad in rollback would be literally unplayable in any connection regardless of netcode.

Do me a favor, please just don't talk about this stuff if you don't have even a passing understanding of what your talking about. Its getting frustrating constantly having to correct misinformation.

Oh boy, so much confidence yet so much wrong.

Let's learn what rollback netcode is. The really simple version is rollback tries to predict what the player will do based on possible outcomes. If it guessed wrong it "rolls back" to the incorrect frame and realigns. When it works well the player never sees the incorrect prediction.

One of the issues the Tekken team has spoken about is the high amount of inputs from something like KBD and other movement techniques. Also a 2d game just has less possibilities at any moment compared to Tekken. Rollback has far more possibilities to anticipate in a 3d game.

Then there's the things that Tekken has to deal with as a series, each character can do at least 40 moves while standing up alone. With characters like Mishimas, they could start wavedashing at any time and their crouch dash speeds can differ greatly. Then with lateral movement, you could be side stepping left or right, or side-walking left or right. And how long could you be side walking for? Does your character have any specific moves they can only do from side steps? Possibilities are endless bro.

I've even seen some Reddit posts of actual rollback netcode workers complaining how it's a headache to impliment rollback on a 3D fighting game yet it doesn't fit equally. If you wanna argue against that then go waste their time.

Again, the rollback is FINE. It's not "top-notch" like SF obviously, but it's not "trash" like most idiots say, it's just a trend to say, get over it. I'm leaving this here lmao.

What you're saying is also wrong. What that guy is saying is netcode you haven't even tried. It is known as "heatstation", and yes those old school Tekken games, in-fact run even BETTER than modern Tekken. And that was netcode that wasn't designed for anything in particular, 2d, or 3d. It was catch-all, and it just so happens that it does 2d rollback just as well as 3d. Even with an average of 8 buttons per second, you get people that can do infinites in certain games at unbelievably precise levels, and with little to no fluctuations.

So you're going to crap on a guy, despite not knowing how their netcode works, and now you're going to say 'I know better, and you want to cite how many attacks you can throw out as your argument?

Netcode isn't special, it doesn't need to be finely tuned on a per game basis. And as long as people have the same performance, guess what, it will work! And work it certainly does. The amount of inputs involved doesn't matter. Unless you're talking about moves that come out frame 1 and are active for 1-2 frames, where everything is within the margin of error for rollback frames, then sure you will see that in the most extreme of cases.

Except guess what - not only can you play with 0 delay frames, and still have insanely great rollback netcode even across the U.S. or a continental distance, but modern games fail to achieve anything close to this. So let's say you actually investigate what you're talking about, before trying to shut down the conversation and throwing out "BUT YOU CAN THROW 40 MOVES!!! THAT'S A BIG NUMBER BRO!" "ROLLBACK NETCODE IS HARD, BECAUSE I SAW SOMETHING ON REDDIT!" "IT HAS TO BE TOP-NOTCH LIKE STREETFIGHTER" but then you look at Rollback netcode done by mostly ONE college guy for the Playstation 1, and it completely discredits everything you said. But you wouldn't know that since you didn't look into the issue, now did you?

Hate to break it to you - but parroting excuses from dev teams plays EXACTLY into what they want. And detracts from the real conversation and solutions they could be having NOW. But again, prove us wrong, and don't say that something being 3D magically makes it different, because spoiler alert: it doesn't. Doesn't matter what game or medium it is, it's going to function virtually the same.

[Schizm]

Originally posted by -Vupny-:

Oh boy, so much confidence yet so much wrong.

Let's learn what rollback netcode is. The really simple version is rollback tries to predict what the player will do based on possible outcomes. If it guessed wrong it "rolls back" to the incorrect frame and realigns. When it works well the player never sees the incorrect prediction.

This isn't what rollback is... Rollback doesn't "predict" anything base on possible outcomes. You assume this because you don't know what your talking about. What rollback does is assume the last action you were last pressing is what your are still pressing. If it is incorrect then it the "Rolls backs" to the correct game state. IT doesn't check if there are 10 or 200 actions that can be performed thats not how it works and might be why you think Tekken is more complex because of things like KBD but that ♥♥♥♥ doesn't matter. You just fundamentally misunderstand what rollback is.

"Oh boy, so much confidence yet so much wrong."
The irony is palpable.

Originally posted by -Vupny-:

One of the issues the Tekken team has spoken about is the high amount of inputs from something like KBD and other movement techniques. Also a 2d game just has less possibilities at any moment compared to Tekken. Rollback has far more possibilities to anticipate in a 3d game.

This doesn't matter because rollback again doesn't check inputs it just assumes the last thing your pressing is what you are going to continue pressing. Also Tekken players think 3D movement = complexity. Tekkens movement is complex but its not complex in the way that would remotely effect rollback. What matters more than the directions you move in is how quickly you move and how quickly the directions change. Trust me there are faster games with wackier movement than Tekken. Melee comes to mind, the games speed is way faster than Tekken has ever been and its movement is not binary like Tekken or other 2D fighting games. Its movement is analog meaning there are way more possibilities in Melees movement than in Tekken. It works perfectly with rollback and it literally wasn't designed with it in mind. For honor a fully 3D game uses rollback and its movement is also analog and it works fine. This excuse comes from ignorance, a complete misunderstanding of how rollback functions. I don't blame you though I blame Harada and the misinformation he spread regarding it. BTW don't just focus on the fact I brought up melee and go "HEHE YOU BROUGHT UP MELEE SO YOUR WRONG" so many brain dead Tekken players do this but they never explain why im wrong. Its intellectual dishonesty.

Originally posted by -Vupny-:

Then there's the things that Tekken has to deal with as a series, each character can do at least 40 moves while standing up alone. With characters like Mishimas, they could start wavedashing at any time and their crouch dash speeds can differ greatly. Then with lateral movement, you could be side stepping left or right, or side-walking left or right. And how long could you be side walking for? Does your character have any specific moves they can only do from side steps? Possibilities are endless bro.

The number of moves don't matter because rollback doesn't track that it again literally just assumes what ever you are pressing last is what you are going to continue to press. You can have 2 moves or 2 hundred moves its literally a non factor. The netcode doesn't care about this kind of stuff.

Originally posted by -Vupny-:

I've even seen some Reddit posts of actual rollback netcode workers complaining how it's a headache to impliment rollback on a 3D fighting game yet it doesn't fit equally. If you wanna argue against that then go waste their time.

Again, the rollback is FINE. It's not "top-notch" like SF obviously, but it's not "trash" like most idiots say, it's just a trend to say, get over it. I'm leaving this here lmao.

There is no such thing as rollback netcode workers lol. There are plenty of networking engineers and developers who say its no different. We have 3 3D fighting games on fightcade right now that use it and a Tekken game on duckstation. It works fine

Seriously don't say other people are wrong when you literally lack the basic understanding of how ♥♥♥♥ works. You are not more educated on this topic than me man.

[Schizm]

Originally posted by vthemighty:

Originally posted by -Vupny-:

Oh boy, so much confidence yet so much wrong.

Let's learn what rollback netcode is. The really simple version is rollback tries to predict what the player will do based on possible outcomes. If it guessed wrong it "rolls back" to the incorrect frame and realigns. When it works well the player never sees the incorrect prediction.

One of the issues the Tekken team has spoken about is the high amount of inputs from something like KBD and other movement techniques. Also a 2d game just has less possibilities at any moment compared to Tekken. Rollback has far more possibilities to anticipate in a 3d game.

Then there's the things that Tekken has to deal with as a series, each character can do at least 40 moves while standing up alone. With characters like Mishimas, they could start wavedashing at any time and their crouch dash speeds can differ greatly. Then with lateral movement, you could be side stepping left or right, or side-walking left or right. And how long could you be side walking for? Does your character have any specific moves they can only do from side steps? Possibilities are endless bro.

I've even seen some Reddit posts of actual rollback netcode workers complaining how it's a headache to impliment rollback on a 3D fighting game yet it doesn't fit equally. If you wanna argue against that then go waste their time.

Again, the rollback is FINE. It's not "top-notch" like SF obviously, but it's not "trash" like most idiots say, it's just a trend to say, get over it. I'm leaving this here lmao.

What you're saying is also wrong. What that guy is saying is netcode you haven't even tried. It is known as "heatstation", and yes those old school Tekken games, in-fact run even BETTER than modern Tekken. And that was netcode that wasn't designed for anything in particular, 2d, or 3d. It was catch-all, and it just so happens that it does 2d rollback just as well as 3d. Even with an average of 8 buttons per second, you get people that can do infinites in certain games at unbelievably precise levels, and with little to no fluctuations.

So you're going to crap on a guy, despite not knowing how their netcode works, and now you're going to say 'I know better, and you want to cite how many attacks you can throw out as your argument?

Netcode isn't special, it doesn't need to be finely tuned on a per game basis. And as long as people have the same performance, guess what, it will work! And work it certainly does. The amount of inputs involved doesn't matter. Unless you're talking about moves that come out frame 1 and are active for 1-2 frames, where everything is within the margin of error for rollback frames, then sure you will see that in the most extreme of cases.

Except guess what - not only can you play with 0 delay frames, and still have insanely great rollback netcode even across the U.S. or a continental distance, but modern games fail to achieve anything close to this. So let's say you actually investigate what you're talking about, before trying to shut down the conversation and throwing out "BUT YOU CAN THROW 40 MOVES!!! THAT'S A BIG NUMBER BRO!" "ROLLBACK NETCODE IS HARD, BECAUSE I SAW SOMETHING ON REDDIT!" "IT HAS TO BE TOP-NOTCH LIKE STREETFIGHTER" but then you look at Rollback netcode done by mostly ONE college guy for the Playstation 1, and it completely discredits everything you said. But you wouldn't know that since you didn't look into the issue, now did you?

Hate to break it to you - but parroting excuses from dev teams plays EXACTLY into what they want. And detracts from the real conversation and solutions they could be having NOW. But again, prove us wrong, and don't say that something being 3D magically makes it different, because spoiler alert: it doesn't. Doesn't matter what game or medium it is, it's going to function virtually the same.

It always tickles me how confident some people are while being dead wrong about damn near everything they say.

Reminds me of flat earthers.