For those of us who are not "Fighting Game" players, and have just been playing video games in General for 30+ years - Does it feel the same?

[Ron]

Does the grind, and the way to learn, to struggle, to win or lose - does it feel the same as before?
Honestly, to me it does not.
It feels a lot like a VERY specific skill was built, encouraged, promoted, and perpetuated, in the last 20 years or so, and that those of us who didn't keep up with "fighting games" in general, just don't have that inherently within us.

Take for instance, those of us who are 50 years or older - we've been through EVERY iteration of a cell phone there has been. However, if you handed us a very modern phone, there might be a myriad of apps, or settings, or abilities on the phone that it's just not really part of our "normal, everyday usage". We would mainly use our phones for texting, calling on the phone, and maybe opening an internet browser window. But all the "advanced" utilities are probably lost on us.

I see Street Fighter 6, and modern fighting games in that very same sense. Back in the early 90s, there were only a handful of games "available to us". That is to say, even though there were dozens of fighting games, only the most popular ones made it to our local Arcades. So, there was no "hey, did you play the new Blazblue, or Guilty Gear" - we were just at the mercy of our local malls or arcades to have them, and if they didn't, we just didn't get to play them.

And then, there's the matter of HOW good you could be, and WOULD be, at the game. It seems that a lot of the skill nowadays is rooted on LONG combo chains, and specific mechanics (like Drive Impact), that really affect and move the matches towards the higher ranks. That is to say - those of us who don't specifically engage in those specific mechanics will never reach higher ranks.
Sure, back in the day, mechanics were a lot simpler, there weren't as many. But now, it seems like there is ONLY one path in order to "get gud", and it involves that. I see a lot of high rank players, and a lot of the high rank players I play, have a lot in common - among those things are, as I said, the long chain combos, the constant use of Drive Impact, Drive Rush.

It may sound like I'm living in the past, but I've bought every Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat to date. And what I HAVE noticed is that, at some point, there was a shift into "the thing" that would differentiate a "good player" from a "winning player."
For instance, in Mortal Kombat 3/Ultimate, it was the Juggling. And then they made it a standard, actual (non-glitched), mechanic of the games thereafter.

To me, it just seems like you can't JUST be good at the game. You have to be good at the game AND be good at these long Drive-Rush-every-3-hits-combos, and also be perfect with your Drive Impacts, not necessarily because you'll use it - but because your opponent will use it.
And I know some of you will say "well, being good at the long chain combos and the Drive Impacts IS BEING good at the game."
But I suppose my point is that before, that didn't HAVE to be the case. You didn't HAVE to be great at all the specific mechanics. You could be really good with only a couple, heck, even good with some and not all the special moves - and still be tournament "good enough".

Maybe I'm too harsh with this specific judgment, but I think if a game REQUIRES you to be very proficient at the new mechanics, and without them you will not get very far - I think that's an egregious flaw in the system.

Somehow, it just doesn't feel the same. It doesn't feel like it's the same even playing field as before. There were no "alternative controls" before. Sometimes, you'd be so lucky to run into a "left handed" player, playing with their arms crossed, because everyone had to play with the exact same controls. There was no disadvantage from a player not using all the mechanics in the game. ( I won a couple of local tournaments of SFIII TS without using EX moves).
It feels like you HAVE to use "high tier" characters in order to get ahead. Or conversely, if you use low tier characters, that you won't get very far.
It feels like you have to be comfortable playing "fast paced", in order to keep winning; and it feels almost impossible to beat anyone if you play slower. (at least with my mains, like Ryu).

Overall, it just feels like a totally different ball game. It feels like this is no country for old men, like me. This might be the year I retire from Fighting Games in general.

-R

[Scrub]

i really should watch that movie again

I am not at your age but I can see it coming on the horizon and I do a lot of thinking about exactly these kind of issues. What is it going to feel like to wake up one day and realize the world has moved past you before you even realized it was going past. Thanks for this post, it's too genuine to be here in the Steam forums.

[Razör]

Okay

[melonLord]

Skimmed through this and I think the answer is just that the overall skill level is just higher because information is more readily available at any given moment so people are expected to know more about the game. Also online play means that people are playing a lot more with a lot more people with higher skill levels and improving that way as well (as opposed to playing against the same dudes in the local area in the arcade era).

Basically, internet happened and now people are good. lol

[Good Person]

I'm not your age, but you're not wrong. At the beginning, things were relatively simple, then other mechanics started to be introduced to games to "spice" them , something to make them standout in a way.
Whether that be Burst mechanics, Roman cancels, Supers, combo breakers, or in your example, Drive gauge shenanigans. They were all added to have an extra layer of complexity to what was otherwise already known and/or "figured out".

Whether that's a good or a bad thing, I don't know. But seeing as how every new fighting game is forcefully introducing some new mechanic(looking at T8 and their heat stuff), it's not something going away anytime soon.

[Castyles]

As David Sarif would say: "Some people will be left behind. It's evolution."

Know this, though: game is built with an aggressive playstyle in mind, it's true, but patient players can still reap wins. You, as a Ryu main, should know. Yet you say it's impossible.

1)Are you playing on the Battle Hub? 2)What's your current rank?

If you answer yes and anything from Gold and above then it's understandable why you're having issues.

Save for perfect parries, nothing of the Drive mechanic is hard to learn, btw.

[Ron]

Originally posted by Jeans:

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if SF3 came out today. I think that game's harder than SF6. The kids at the local tournament would probably do long combos and parry chains after watching vids on Youtube (they do now). Tekken has also been high skill cap and combo-heavy since the beginning.

I can't disagree with you, but SF6 is relatively newbie and returning-player friendly, too. The old games are still available on Fightcade, but everyone's better at them now.

That is a very good point because I did feel somewhat the same way when SF3 came out. It felt way too different than the predecessors. And it took me a long time to actually be ok with the 2 major new mechanics, Parry, and EX. In a way, the Alpha series felt like an evolution of the SFII's variants. But 3, especially with Third Strike felt like a complete different direction and its own thing.
So, I do think it's me just being an old fart saying "things are too different than they used to be", because I've been saying it with every different iteration. But also, it just feels like the new games have no room for someone with old, stubborn mindsets like me. I guess that's one thing that didn't change back then. You could have the same "bad habits" from World Warrior, to CE, to HF, to SSFII, to Super Turbo - and they would still work, relatively. You could still "get away" with playing "old school." Now, that's not the case at all, and it's "get with the times and learn 21 chain combos" or you won't make it past Gold Rank.
At least, that's the way it feels to me.

[Ron]

Originally posted by Good Person:

I'm not your age, but you're not wrong. At the beginning, things were relatively simple, then other mechanics started to be introduced to games to "spice" them , something to make them standout in a way.
Whether that be Burst mechanics, Roman cancels, Supers, combo breakers, or in your example, Drive gauge shenanigans. They were all added to have an extra layer of complexity to what was otherwise already known and/or "figured out".

Whether that's a good or a bad thing, I don't know. But seeing as how every new fighting game is forcefully introducing some new mechanic(looking at T8 and their heat stuff), it's not something going away anytime soon.

You're totally right.
I guess if I have a gripe that I would put into specific words is that games like to introduce the "newfangled mechanic" that everyone HAS to learn, in order to be any good at the game. And me coming from this stubborn mindset, I refuse to learn them. I stick to my hadokens, shoryukens, high punch/kick anti airs, sweeps, and timed grabs. And I had the same problem when IV came out, with all the gauges. And I had the same problem with V, with V Trigger. and now with 6, with all these new things.

I just think that it kind of cheats people that want to learn a "basic, foundational, way" of playing Street Fighter in general. Like if I taught you how to play football, for years. And then one day, I show up and say "everyone gather up." We're learning how to play THIS season's football: It'll be played with hockey sticks. And the ball is made of wood. And you don't kick it with your foot, you kick it with your knees only. But OTHER than that, it's the same old Football.

I don't deny it's my problem. I just wish it rewarded us for sticking with the franchise for 36 years, instead of "punishing us" for not "getting with the times, and learning the new ways.

[Ron]

Originally posted by melonLord:

Skimmed through this and I think the answer is just that the overall skill level is just higher because information is more readily available at any given moment so people are expected to know more about the game. Also online play means that people are playing a lot more with a lot more people with higher skill levels and improving that way as well (as opposed to playing against the same dudes in the local area in the arcade era).

Basically, internet happened and now people are good. lol

100% agree. I'm too old, tired, and lazy, honestly, to want to learn these new skills and keep up with them. Not to mention that the last couple of times I played Ranked, my heart was beating so fast, that I almost had to get some blood pressure medication. The match was so fast paced, and so overwhelming. I honestly don't think my heart could take Street Fighter VII, to be frank.
As I said, maybe it is time to just pass the baton, and leave the game to the younger generations that CAN keep up with the higher skill levels, and have the desire to. (since I'm too lazy and unwilling to do so)

[Peddie]

Granted, I imagine that on Fightcade the folks still playing those retro fighting games are also playing them at a higher level than the topic creator is used to. Before the days of widespread (and good) netplay you could be fooled into thinking you were good at a fighting game simply because your only opponents were either siblings or buddies who'd come around every so often. This went doubly if you lived in a region where there were no arcades nor any kind of local fighting community. So you could consistently win against those folks without even being anywhere near the limit of what those games allow you to do. (And then you go on holiday to Japan and learn in the arcades just how little you know)

That said, if you need blood pressure medication because of ranked mode I think there is more at play than just a supposed lack of skill. If you truly are too tired and lazy to want to improve at the game then you also shouldn't be too worried about your rank going down. So perhaps you care more than you're letting on. But just so you know, modern controls are there for a reason. There is no shame in using them if those help you keep up while not being as dedicated as the over 40 pros like Daigo, Itabashi Zangief and Sako.

[X]

This mofo does not speak for us old gaurd. Go get a rocking chair and get on the porch. Cant understand advanced utilities on a cell phone? SMH lol.

[Selphea]

I feel the difficulty curve peaked when there were a lot of games with very long combos into hard knockdown into mixups into another hard knockdown and a bunch of 1-frame links in between. Somewhere around USF4 and Rev2's time, and then SFV was a mess. In the past year or two, there's been a movement to make fighting games more accessible. It's still early though.

For Street Fighter 6 there's Modern controls, there's Drive Impact which newbies can use to break out of pressure. And unlike fighters from the last generation there's a lot less 50-50 mixup till you die stuff going on. But yes there's a learning curve with Drive Rush and Drive Impact.

I've always felt fighting games are a 1000+ hour investment though. As in, if I'm not prepared to put 1000+ hours in (and it can be over a few years), I should just stay casual. Especially since modern matchmaking means the top end isn't a local arcade champion anymore but Evo or Capcom Cup winners and top Twitch streamers.

[Gleap]

I don't know why you would expect to ever move towards high ranks if you don't engage with the system mechanics.

You don't get good at any other sport or game by ignoring parts of it. Drive rush every third hit is not especially hard when its one button, but if that's too hard Honda can get 50% off drive rush every hit and ken get 33% off just starting with a drive rush and zero cancels etc.

You certainly don't need to be "perfect" with drive impact whatever that's supposed to mean, I barely even think about that mechanic beyond don't use careless pokes and I made it to master easy enough with just some good fundamentals.

You very easily can get good at this game by picking any common scenario and labing that scenario until you are certain your solutions. After that you just practice them in some rounds when that situation pops up.

If you don't want to take the time to practice and learn of course you are going to be worse than the people who do. Information being easily accessible in the modern area exaggerates that divide and you see it more because its not just your local arcade but that divide has always existed.

[cdrw2400]

I think your nostalgia goggles may be distorting your view. I'm in my 40's and remember the 2D fighter fad in the wake of SF2. Especially with SNK fighters, even then there was a problem with increasingly complex mechanics that had to be mastered to be good at them.

The classic King of Fighters '98 is a good example: You've got reversals, alternate guards, proximity unblockables, hops, hyper hops, super jumps, guard cancel strikes, runs, rolls, throw breaks, guard cancel rolls, MAX mode, etc, etc, etc. Plus as this series in team-based, you have to "git gud" with multiple characters, not just one. Plus there's the execution barrier of complex (and often strictly-timed) controls for these games.

The mechanics of SF6 are quite simple and easy to understand when compared to fighters like KOF '98 (even though very flexible). Moreover, SF6's "Modern" control system makes the game more intuitive and accessible than ever before. Anyway - as you'd know - the general consensus amongst experts like Justin Wong is also that fundamentals are also far more important and effective than flashy combos.

As for the cell phone example, to be fair, modern phones are far more intuitive, powerful, flexible, and easy to use than they ever were. Ditto operating systems. I'm sure you remember using DOS. Maybe installing Windows 3.1 on top of it. Dealing with config files. Now the latest versions of Windows - which are far, far more powerful - take care of all that back-end stuff for you. We're spoiled rotten compared to what came before.

Maybe you've just outgrown the genre.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by melonLord:

just that the overall skill level is just higher because information is more readily available at any given moment so people are expected to know more about the game. Also online play means that people are playing a lot more with a lot more people with higher skill levels and improving that way as well (as opposed to playing against the same dudes in the local area in the arcade era).

Basically, internet happened and now people are good. lol

Basically ^this and just way more people competing. Accessability of online videogames has massively skyrocketed since 2000 - and i dont mean "ease of use" - i mean literally way more people have stable connections and playstations/PCs/crossplay and so on.

if you have a lot of people trying to be good at something the competition gets fierce fairly quickly. Thats why life is hard in general, videogames are fairly easy by comparison.

Meanwhile in niche areas like "speedrunning games that arent built around time attack" you can be the best if you beat 4 other people none of which has strong real life incentives to actually be good at doing the thing(like large cash prizes at CPT or EVO - still fairly tame compared to real life tho). Not exactly an achievement.

[smelly]

Aren't fighting games more simple and easier than before? I'm almost certain they are. Funniest thing is I've played fighting games all my life and was always too intimidated and overwhelmed (and also dumb) to ever learn them. It wasn't until Guilty Gear Strive that got I finally felt committed to learn and now I'm just deeply in love with fighting games. Been spending so much time in Street Fighter 6 and Mortal Kombat 1 and been teaching myself and the journey of getting better has been one of the best feeling in my entire existence of gaming