People who play Zoners

[Daddy]

Why?
What is the thought process behind picking a ranged spamming character in a melee-centric game?

Is it to feel like you have an inherent advantage over most of the cast?
Sure you don't 100% win every time, but why put people through that misery?

We're all here to do some Kick-Boxing right? K, just making sure because I brought my gun. Hope y'all don't mind.

Let us frustrated gamers in on what that JP is thinking as we're struggling to keep our sanity each round.

[Poltergeist]

At the very least, Dhalsim is in kind of a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ spot because 6 has a universal parry system like Third Strike. Dhalsim wasnt in 3S so thats a new problem. Most Sim players will only rotate the same 3 moves when trying to poke at range, get a feel for when theyre gonna poke and you can just parry most of it. Doesnt even need to be perfect.

JP is a different problem. Thats more reliant on the kit of the character you play as. I've been playing a lot of Manon and I have a projectile invincible move that moves forward so I can bank on that. Cammy or Gief though Iwould have no idea what to do.

[Daddy]

Originally posted by Hekzy:

Originally posted by Kookoo:

Parry? Last I checked, Parry doesn't get you into hitting range of JP.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985601543
guess I bought SF6 Cheater Edition then. (TBF I only got the bot to do three commands, since I haven't really used the record feature much, but I think it's still enough to prove my point.

Welp, I guess parry does give you a chance to move forward decently.
It definitely works against low-level spammers.

But JPs with similar skill and an actual thinking brain that isn't occupied by his 2nd monitor would've definitely responded to that and made it wayyy more complicated.

Again, its just moreso the effort needed on the Non-Zoner's side vs. Zoner's to play.
Whether that be non-zoner spending time labbing against said zoner to learn the matchup or just dancing through the screen of death repeatedly on edge.

JP doesn't even need to lab anyone specifically, he'll be able to zone right off the bat regardless. (Rushers would definitely give him more trouble, but still do-able if we're not talking Plat+ ranks)
Basically, zero effort for immediate satisfaction.

[Cyke]

You act like you know what you are talking about but all your statements make it evident you have no idea what goes into making a 2d fighting game. Especially Street Fighter.

[Moragg]

The game would be lesser without zoners, they add something completely unique to the game.

[Hekzy]

Originally posted by Kookoo:

Originally posted by Hekzy:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985601543
guess I bought SF6 Cheater Edition then. (TBF I only got the bot to do three commands, since I haven't really used the record feature much, but I think it's still enough to prove my point.

Welp, I guess parry does give you a chance to move forward decently.
It definitely works against low-level spammers.

But JPs with similar skill and an actual thinking brain that isn't occupied by his 2nd monitor would've definitely responded to that and made it wayyy more complicated.

Again, its just moreso the effort needed on the Non-Zoner's side vs. Zoner's to play.
Whether that be non-zoner spending time labbing against said zoner to learn the matchup or just dancing through the screen of death repeatedly on edge.

JP doesn't even need to lab anyone specifically, he'll be able to zone right off the bat regardless. (Rushers would definitely give him more trouble, but still do-able if we're not talking Plat+ ranks)
Basically, zero effort for immediate satisfaction.

We are not talking about Plat+ Ranks here, dude. If we did, we wouldn't even have this discussion in the first place, since plat+ knows how to play as/against zoners, so don't come to me talking "bUt In PlAt...", since your statements prove you are nowhere near, the level of play to you to talk about it.

We are strictly talking about YOU and YOUR experience with Zoners and their counterplay.

You said you can't close the gap with parries, then I showed evidence on the contrary.
Then you make up some assumptions about players which are also mostly not true and then you say people in plat don't play like that.
Yeah, no ♥♥♥♥, it was a demonstration equivalent to Ryu/Ken spamming Hadoken.

[SKay]

Your first mistake against a zoner sometimes is chasing them.

Always remember: the timer and your health bar are weapons too...

[Maxx_Crowley]

Originally posted by Kookoo:

Originally posted by Maxx_Crowley:

At this point I have a hard time believing you're being genuine here. It's one thing to get your ass kicked by a zoner and whine about it, but now the whining is hitting 5 year old levels.

"They wont let me play!!"

Really? That's your ACTUAL position?

Nevermind rush-down can crunch a zoner into past. Nevermind how every zoner utterly fears the grappler closing in (and they always do). Nevermind the danger of getting backed into the corner.

Nevermind the Drive impact, the parry and all the other anti-projectile options.

How is it that you can actually be whining about a character time that is LITERALLY in nearly every fighting game EVER MADE?

And are all those fighting games utterly dominated by zoners? Every zoner a top tier?

You are playing the game you spent $60 on....and you're losing, and your whining about it.

And if you were getting locked down in the corner with a rush-down character up your ass, you'd be whining about that.

And if you ate an SPD every time you go close, you'd be whining about that.

Zoners can do things no one else can do?

Cool.

So can Grapplers.

So can Rush-down.

Cammy can do ♥♥♥♥ Dhalsim can't hope to ever do.

It's almost as if there are multiple character types that all do their own thing.

And if you somehow are actually genuine here? If I really am speaking to a 5 year old?

Get over it.

Because Capcom is not going to pull all the characters who have projectiles out of the game.

So get over it. Learn how to get around it like everyone does EVERY SINGLE GAME.

Or delete it and move on with your life, having wasted your money, and hopefully learned a valuable lesson.

Wait, Grapplers can... Grab? So can everyone else.
Rush-down can move forward pretty quick, which is unique, sure. (But JP can teleport? For different purposes of course)

I've eaten my fair share of Command Grabs, been rushed down enough by Cammy, and zoned enough by JPs.

But NONE of the others FELT nearly as unfair as sitting across the map having to dodge stuff the entire match and ONE mistake is going to restart that miserable journey again.

Accidentally get grabbed? Welp, at least he's in range to ♥♥♥♥ up and I can start playing.
Rush down corner pressuring me? Lemme find a good time to chime in and eventually play.

JP hits me with a move? (Which he WILL) Welp, the last 3 hours was me trying to inch forward and evading 9 attempts to land a hit. Guess I'm back at square one again!

JP misses a move? I am now only 20 steps away from getting to him and ANY mistake is a reset button.

Drive Gauges to counter JP? WAIT, JP has it too!

Parry? Last I checked, Parry doesn't get you into hitting range of JP.

The main point is, Rush-down is putting in effort to read you, execute combos, throw good mix-ups, AND trying to read your own moves to defend accordingly.

Grapple has to play their own mini-game of being in range to pull it off consistently and all the other things that require actual effort AND risk.


JP? He's just standing in the corner throwing ♥♥♥♥ at you (some people use actual thought and some mindlessly)
He messes up? Still got half the map left to continue zoning.
No punishment just yet.

Oh ♥♥♥♥, they got in after me messing up 10+ times?! DRIVE IMPACTTTTTT GOOO!
What?! Good thing I still have PARRY!
Waaaaait??! I can teleport?! LUL.

Jk, I just need to catch them slipping ONCE and send them across the map to restart again.

Again, I can't honestly believe you're being genuine.

You're whining about problems that have had solutions since SF 2.

Being a good zoner takes a lot of effort and there is always risk in throwing out a projectile. Get too predictable with them, and you're gonna eat it.

At this point, you're either too salty to continue playing the game.

Or You're just trolling, and as I can see you've put more than a few hours into SF 5 and 6, I'm going with that.

Also, I know it was pure hyperbole, but if it took you what felt like 3 hours to get close to JP, then you basically can't play.

Again, I have an extremely hard time believing you're actually struggling this hard with a character type that's been around over 30 years.

In every game in this franchise

And nearly every game in ever other franchise.

Finally, I've seen loads of SF6 videos at this point, and I've seen Dhalsim, Guile, JP and such all lose. By your premise, they should be winning constantly.

Hell, I saw DarkSydePhil lose upwards of 60 times straight while losing a Zoner.

And sure, while he IS the literal definition of a Scrub (As in, he's one of the people that was literally used to define what a scrub IS back when the terms were all being codified) surely, based on what you say, he should have been dominating instead of whining about how unfair it all is and how bad his character, Dhalsim, is.

Because he has multiple fireballs from different angles, stretching limbs AND a teleport.

Didn't save the Pigroach.

[Jirai]

lol people still think JP is a zoner. They obviously never got attacked by his close up mixups in the corner ;) JP, purple stuff and psycho power rulez!

[Power_Bert]

I smell much salt in this post.

[Grampire]

Originally posted by Madda aka Jirai:

lol people still think JP is a zoner. They obviously never got attacked by his close up mixups in the corner ;) JP, purple stuff and psycho power rulez! :SF6_Jungle_Sprite:

Not an expert of JP but his buttons seem slow.

[Octonaut]

get in and start hitting buttons then?

[SIG-INT]

"Why?"

See how assmad you are? That is exactly why.

[ThunderyPuppy21]

The problem right there is that your thoughts aren't matching what you are saying. SF6 is a "Melee-Centric Game" it is not a "Melee-Exclusive Game." If it were all about standing in each others face swinging till someone dies every game, with no spacing or distance management, that would be Punch-out or Rock'em Sock'em Robots.

You have also no doubt experienced the opposite, you definitely don't want to stay close to a grappler. Why? Cause they are just significantly more threatening at close range. Being in the grappler vortex can be incredibly frustrating as well.

Zoners are just another playstyle. Why? Cause it can be fun to play a slower game, rotating your tools in interesting ways to best read your opponents approach options. Can it be frustrating? Yes. So can everything else.

Instead of complaining about the game not being what you want it to be. Or getting on peoples grills. Take some time learn the matchup, learn your options for handling individual tools in a zoners kit.

Btw, since I know it will come up. I main JP, but I also play both Manon and Zangief. I have experienced both sides of it. I have gotten salty too, it can be real annoying.

Perhaps another use of article threads like this would be asking for help. Stuff like "Can some people give me tips to beat JP/Dhalsim/Ryu/Guile with X Character?"

[BJORNtobeWILD_YOUTUBE]

Zoners always been part of fighting games wtf you talking about

[Daddy]

Originally posted by LEGALIZE NUCLEAR BOMBS:

Originally posted by Kookoo:

Uh, because zoners start the match off in an advantageous position right off the bat?
Because they can mindlessly throw stuff at you and not really care if you dodge a couple because you'll probably get hit eventually and have to restart the whole "shimmy" process forward again.

That's probably why people are losing to zoners and why zoners get the most complaints out of any archetype (not counting Esports pros where nothing matters to them its all fair game)

Talking about the average joe who isn't seasoned by 10,000 hours of gameplay.

Equally skilled Bronze JP vs Chun-Li and JP is going to afk and probably win while Chunny is gunna have to fight for her life each and every round.

lets invent a game where every single person in the game fights each other with a bunch of different swords. you can pick whatever sword you want and there are like 6000 of them, this is a melee based game. In this game there is 1 (one) musket with a reload time longer than the bible. you (sword guy) and this fictional guy i have just made up (musket guy) start at the exact same spot an equal distance away from each other (you are one step away from stabbing this guy with your sword) what is your excuse for losing this.

That each musket shot pushes him across the map.
He's bound to mess up at least ONCE