No, SF6 is NOT going to go "Broke"

[Providence 777]

Yes the game has some elements that are extremely divisive, and out right repulsive, but keep in mind that those mistakes are ultimately not going to outweigh the content that people are excited for.

Capcom for the first time in decades is investing serious money into developing this into a game that casuals will play for months or possibly years, there's countless casuals all paying attention to this entry due to the all this single player content, players who otherwise would have completely ignored the game because it's a fighting game.

Capcom is estimating that SF6 will reach 10 million sales by the end of the game's life cycle, but judging by the investment, content, and advertising campaign, they'll likely exceed 15 million within the first few years baring any unforeseen incidents. We need to consider all the factors at play here.

MK11 is a good model to compare to, it also had some divisive elements, and removed the most appealing and iconic costumes for the female characters, despite those mistakes, their advertising campaign ensured a massive success.

Plus, remember that unlike MK11, SF6 actually DOES have the classic iconic costumes for the female fighters, with all their fanfare and appeal.

[Providence 777]

引用自 Kuriishi：

Most casual gamers wouldn't even know what EVO is, for instance.

This is what the FGC hasn't figured out yet, they can't really think beyond the scope of their own love for the genre.

I remember getting into an argument with someone about the issue of Cammy's Super Art Camera, the guy believe that since none of the pros mentioned it, that no one cared, I explained to him the hours I spent trying to calm down normies and reassure them that it wasn't censored, he straight up couldn't imagine anyone caring about elements that aren't talked about by pro players.

引用自 Kuriishi：

So, what I'm wondering is, if there is an overlap in that casual market, specifically. It will be interesting to see how the game fares and especially overtime how the the sales figures develop

The biggest pool of casuals will come from the initial install base, it's not going to matter if MK12 steals most of them away, we just need them to enjoy the game long enough to have a good experience before they move on.

[Holografix]

引用自 Kuriishi：

引用自 Holografix：

The Street Fighter pros, the ones who compete in tournaments like MenaRD or SonicFox etc, they play all the fighting games. MK, Tekken, SF, Guilty Gear...When you enjoy the genre you enjoy multiple games.

Audiences that follow the tourneys are not tied to one game, they either follow the fighting game pro or they go to multiple game events like EVO and stuff.

Whilst that's true, I was thinking of more the casual audience. Like, I'm sure both games will have mass market appeal to bring in brand new people into the games that don't normally play or are involved in fighting games at all. Most casual gamers wouldn't even know what EVO is, for instance.

We don't know exactly what MK will be doing (typically it is the most casual friendly fighting game). Street Fighter is making a big push there now though with the new control schemes and World Tour mode which make it so pretty much anyone can play no matter their skill level.

So, what I'm wondering is, if there is an overlap in that casual market, specifically. It will be interesting to see how the game fares and especially overtime how the the sales figures develop

I don't understand what you mean by 'casual' with regards to fighting games.

[Providence 777]

引用自 Holografix：

I don't understand what you mean by 'casual' with regards to fighting games.

He means "people who play without any interest in competing seriously"

Like, players who just play with friends for fun, don't ever use training mode, and don't know what frame data is, or any of the jargon we use.

[Holografix]

引用自 Providence 777：

引用自 Holografix：

I don't understand what you mean by 'casual' with regards to fighting games.

He means "people who play without any interest in competing seriously"

Like, players who just play with friends for fun, don't ever use training mode, and don't know what frame data is, or any of the jargon we use.

i don't know how you can play a fighting game without "competing seriously." fighting games are about winning battles against others. it's literally a competitive game genre.

[Providence 777]

引用自 Holografix：

引用自 Providence 777：

He means "people who play without any interest in competing seriously"

Like, players who just play with friends for fun, don't ever use training mode, and don't know what frame data is, or any of the jargon we use.

i don't know how you can play a fighting game without "competing seriously." fighting games are about winning battles against others. it's literally a competitive game genre.

I played with a lot of casuals IRL, and a few I've met online from other game genres. Casuals treat fighting games the way most people treat Gmod or GTA, it's a small sandbox to see characters do cool stuff while you talk about random things and joke and laugh.

One of my brother's friends didn't even bother to pause the game when he put the controller down mid match to talk about something he encountered that day.

People like that, don't even know these games CAN be played competitively.

[Providence 777]

A better analogy would be like Mario Party 64, no one is serious if you're playing that, the characters are just there to do funny stuff and look cool.

You can see why casuals don't stay very long when they go online and get beaten, without the concept of training to get better at the game, they complain the genre is too hard and go back to playing Creative Mode in Fortnite.

[Holografix]

引用自 Providence 777：

引用自 Holografix：

i don't know how you can play a fighting game without "competing seriously." fighting games are about winning battles against others. it's literally a competitive game genre.

I played with a lot of casuals IRL, and a few I've met online from other game genres. Casuals treat fighting games the way most people treat Gmod or GTA, it's a small sandbox to see characters do cool stuff while you talk about random things and joke and laugh.

One of my brother's friends didn't even bother to pause the game when he put the controller down mid match to talk about something he encountered that day.

People like that, don't even know these games CAN be played competitively.

that's not really playing the game tho. putting the controller down mid-match means your aren't even casually engaged with the game.

personally, i think the word 'casual' is misused when describing people playing video games. It's technically a jargon term meant for gate-keeping more than accurate description of players.

[Providence 777]

引用自 Holografix：

that's not really playing the game tho. putting the controller down mid-match means your aren't even casually engaged with the game.

That's why they're called "casual", because they're not serious about winning, they don't care.

I wish you would have seen the sheer confusion on his face when my brother and I were up next to play and we were freaking killing each other in the game. He was like: "Damn, why y'all so serious, you out here playing like there's money on the line".

引用自 Holografix：

personally, i think the word 'casual' is misused when describing people playing video games. It's technically a jargon term meant for gate-keeping more than accurate description of players.

Oh dear God, not more oppression Olympics, please don't bring that nonsense here in this thread T_T

why can't words just mean the things they say?

[Holografix]

引用自 Providence 777：

引用自 Holografix：

personally, i think the word 'casual' is misused when describing people playing video games. It's technically a jargon term meant for gate-keeping more than accurate description of players.

Oh dear God, not more oppression Olympics, please don't bring that nonsense here in this thread T_T

why can't words just mean the things they say?

because no one is actually paying attention to the meaning of words anymore. especially here, where people misuse words all the time and post arguments that are tautological.

unless you're in a tournament playing for money, you are a casual regardless of how much knowledge of the game you have. When you start differentiating between different degrees of "casualness' is when the word starts to lose meaning.

Pro (plays for money) v. casual (everyone else regardless of expertise). It's as simple as that.

[Providence 777]

引用自 Holografix：

because no one is actually paying attention to the meaning of words anymore. especially here, where people misuse words all the time and post arguments that are tautological.

unless you're in a tournament playing for money, you are a casual regardless of how much knowledge of the game you have. When you start differentiating between different degrees of "casualness' is when the word starts to lose meaning.

Pro (plays for money) v. casual (everyone else regardless of expertise). It's as simple as that.

you're assuming this is about pro vs casual

it's not

it's about hardcore vs casual.

The hardcore player doesn't have to participate in tournaments or play for money, they just have to dedicate a lot of their time to playing it, training in it, studying it, won't drop the game when the new Fortnite update goes live.

[Holografix]

引用自 Providence 777：

引用自 Holografix：

because no one is actually paying attention to the meaning of words anymore. especially here, where people misuse words all the time and post arguments that are tautological.

unless you're in a tournament playing for money, you are a casual regardless of how much knowledge of the game you have. When you start differentiating between different degrees of "casualness' is when the word starts to lose meaning.

Pro (plays for money) v. casual (everyone else regardless of expertise). It's as simple as that.

you're assuming this is about pro vs casual

it's not

it's about hardcore vs casual.

The hardcore player doesn't have to participate in tournaments or play for money, they just have to dedicate a lot of their time to playing it, training in it, studying it, won't drop the game when the new Fortnite update goes live.

A hardcore player is simply a casual with expert knowledge and a willingness to invest time into the game.

[Providence 777]

引用自 Holografix：

引用自 Providence 777：

you're assuming this is about pro vs casual

it's not

it's about hardcore vs casual.

The hardcore player doesn't have to participate in tournaments or play for money, they just have to dedicate a lot of their time to playing it, training in it, studying it, won't drop the game when the new Fortnite update goes live.

A hardcore player is simply a casual with expert knowledge and a willingness to invest time into the game.

see why that delineation is necessary and requires a specific term?

the number of pro-players is eclipsed by hardcore players.
and the number of hardcore players is eclipsed by casual players.

Casual players make up the bulk of the sales, but the hardcore players make up the bulk of the long term players.

Now lets try that same sentence without that delineation, and group both non-pro categories under "casual".

the number of pro-players is eclipsed by Casual players with expert knowledge and a willingness to invest time into the game.
and the number of Casual players with expert knowledge and a willingness to invest time into the game is eclipsed by Casual players.

Casual players make up the bulk of the sales, but the Casual players with expert knowledge and a willingness to invest time into the game, make up the bulk of the long term players.

Isn't it so much simpler to use a term that has the same meaning with far less words?

[Providence 777]

引用自 Eldin：

If that worked all sorts of games would get censored. Eh, have fun man.

is that a joke? all sorts of games HAVE been censored in recent years.
SFV in particular removed and censored a lot of things over the years of its life cycle.

[Providence 777]

引用自 Eldin：

Not the games I play and not because people complain. If they choose to do so it is the dev’s vision.

if it was the devs vision, why did they not "see" this vision until after they got complaints from non-customers?

funny how so many devs envision removing content from their games that they worked hard to create just to throw away only after complaints on twitter were posted.

[Holografix]

引用自 Providence 777：

引用自 Holografix：

A hardcore player is simply a casual with expert knowledge and a willingness to invest time into the game.

see why that delineation is necessary and requires a specific term?

the number of pro-players is eclipsed by hardcore players.
and the number of hardcore players is eclipsed by casual players.

Casual players make up the bulk of the sales, but the hardcore players make up the bulk of the long term players.

Now lets try that same sentence without that delineation, and group both non-pro categories under "casual".

the number of pro-players is eclipsed by Casual players with expert knowledge and a willingness to invest time into the game.
and the number of Casual players with expert knowledge and a willingness to invest time into the game is eclipsed by Casual players.

Casual players make up the bulk of the sales, but the Casual players with expert knowledge and a willingness to invest time into the game, make up the bulk of the long term players.

Isn't it so much simpler to use a term that has the same meaning with far less words?

Your "bulk of sale" data is not based on anything other than a hypothetical to prove your terminology correct. Fact is, everyone is a casual in the beginning, then as people keep playing with the game some become long-term casuals, and some casuals end up competing for money in tournaments and those casuals become pros.

that's all there is to it. you just want to gatekeep and call a group of people 'casuals' for some reason.