How to deal with ken/ryu hadouken + shouryuuken combo spammers?

[DraWol]

Any ideas?

[Everchosen]

Patience, you can walk them down in a lot of cases, sometimes they will even corner themselves trying to keep distance.

You could also try empty jumps to bate out the Shoryu, even Drive Rushing and eating a fireball

Past that strategy for this sort of play style can be character dependent.

For instance Cammy's Spin Knuckle can punish fireball spammers fairly easily.

Certain characters can alter the trajectory of their jumps to bait Shoryu (Ken, Ryu, Chun Li, Cammy, Juri, Blanka, Dhalsim etc.)

What are you doing now, or do you have any replays?

[PKMN Trainer Green]

If you're close enough, you can also drive impact the hadoken for a punish before they can recover and shoryuken.

[Shoah Kahn]

Not much you can do besides hope they mess up, and then punish. The game has an abject lack of defensive options, which means that it all boils down to either rush-downs or keep-away.

I've always said that the defensive mechanics in a fighting game, more than any single aspect, define its quality: The fewer defensive tools one is given, the poorer the game is. In all real-world martial arts, the very first things practitioners are taught is how to DEFEND themselves. For if you cannot block an attack, all the fancy moves in the world will amount to nada -- because you'll be knockout, if not dead, after the first blow. In SF6, you cannot even forward tech-roll; let alone, is there a SNK Vs. Capcom suite of side-step evades, rolls, just guards etc.... Heck, you can barely even punish most YOLO'd specials in SF6, and even "perfect parries" can often be reverse-mashed out of! 😂

As such, characters like Guile, Ryu, and JP can just lock opponents down with a modicum of skill investment. It's also why the "infamous six" in the roster, all Splatoon slide at the beginning of every round -- even they are suspect being spammed out before they can engage their own rote spams,

Pro tip:
Just block all those you don't like to fight against... There will be a million more where they came from.

[DraWol]

Originally posted by Everchosen:

Patience, you can walk them down in a lot of cases, sometimes they will even corner themselves trying to keep distance.

You could also try empty jumps to bate out the Shoryu, even Drive Rushing and eating a fireball

Past that strategy for this sort of play style can be character dependent.

For instance Cammy's Spin Knuckle can punish fireball spammers fairly easily.

Certain characters can alter the trajectory of their jumps to bait Shoryu (Ken, Ryu, Chun Li, Cammy, Juri, Blanka, Dhalsim etc.)

What are you doing now, or do you have any replays?

I'm doing the most stupid thing - jumping forward where they punish me with shoryuken.
I'm sick of it, but i couldn't come up with a solution.
That is why i'm asking for an advice, not whining.

[DraWol]

Originally posted by Shoah Kahn:

Pro tip:
Just block all those you don't like to fight against... There will be a million more where they came from.

You can block users?!

[DraWol]

Originally posted by Shoah Kahn:

Not much you can do besides hope they mess up, and then punish. The game has an abject lack of defensive options, which means that it all boils down to either rush-downs or keep-away.

I've always said that the defensive mechanics in a fighting game, more than any single aspect, define its quality: The fewer defensive tools one is given, the poorer the game is. In all real-world martial arts, the very first things practitioners are taught is how to DEFEND themselves. For if you cannot block an attack, all the fancy moves in the world will amount to nada -- because you'll be knockout, if not dead, after the first blow. In SF6, you cannot even forward tech-roll; let alone, is there a SNK Vs. Capcom suite of side-step evades, rolls, just guards etc.... Heck, you can barely even punish most YOLO'd specials in SF6, and even "perfect parries" can often be reverse-mashed out of! 😂

As such, characters like Guile, Ryu, and JP can just lock opponents down with a modicum of skill investment. It's also why the "infamous six" in the roster, all Splatoon slide at the beginning of every round -- even they are suspect being spammed out before they can engage their own rote spams,

Pro tip:
Just block all those you don't like to fight against... There will be a million more where they came from.

In addition to your critique, i've never understood why there is an invisible wall in the corner of an arena.

[DraWol]

Originally posted by Everchosen:

Patience, you can walk them down in a lot of cases, sometimes they will even corner themselves trying to keep distance.

You could also try empty jumps to bate out the Shoryu, even Drive Rushing and eating a fireball

Past that strategy for this sort of play style can be character dependent.

For instance Cammy's Spin Knuckle can punish fireball spammers fairly easily.

Certain characters can alter the trajectory of their jumps to bait Shoryu (Ken, Ryu, Chun Li, Cammy, Juri, Blanka, Dhalsim etc.)

What are you doing now, or do you have any replays?

You can share replays?

[Castyles]

♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing about shotos (zoners, in general) is that fighting games end up turning into a damn shmup.

Of course it's easier said than done (for this crap requires timing) but forward double-tap + block/Drive Parry + Drive Rush to close in on them, if hadouken and block + anything, really, if shoryuken. I like to counter air-counters with another air-counter.

[Danny DeVito with a Gun]

Originally posted by Shoah Kahn:

Not much you can do besides hope they mess up, and then punish. The game has an abject lack of defensive options, which means that it all boils down to either rush-downs or keep-away.

I've always said that the defensive mechanics in a fighting game, more than any single aspect, define its quality: The fewer defensive tools one is given, the poorer the game is. In all real-world martial arts, the very first things practitioners are taught is how to DEFEND themselves. For if you cannot block an attack, all the fancy moves in the world will amount to nada -- because you'll be knockout, if not dead, after the first blow. In SF6, you cannot even forward tech-roll; let alone, is there a SNK Vs. Capcom suite of side-step evades, rolls, just guards etc.... Heck, you can barely even punish most YOLO'd specials in SF6, and even "perfect parries" can often be reverse-mashed out of! 😂

As such, characters like Guile, Ryu, and JP can just lock opponents down with a modicum of skill investment. It's also why the "infamous six" in the roster, all Splatoon slide at the beginning of every round -- even they are suspect being spammed out before they can engage their own rote spams,

Pro tip:
Just block all those you don't like to fight against... There will be a million more where they came from.

The irony of an NRS fan complaining about zoning

[okey]

Originally posted by DraWol:

Originally posted by Everchosen:

Patience, you can walk them down in a lot of cases, sometimes they will even corner themselves trying to keep distance.

You could also try empty jumps to bate out the Shoryu, even Drive Rushing and eating a fireball

Past that strategy for this sort of play style can be character dependent.

For instance Cammy's Spin Knuckle can punish fireball spammers fairly easily.

Certain characters can alter the trajectory of their jumps to bait Shoryu (Ken, Ryu, Chun Li, Cammy, Juri, Blanka, Dhalsim etc.)

What are you doing now, or do you have any replays?

I'm doing the most stupid thing - jumping forward where they punish me with shoryuken.
I'm sick of it, but i couldn't come up with a solution.
That is why i'm asking for an advice, not whining.

Try jumping straight up sometimes instead of forward. You can only have a single projectile on screen at once, so this will buy you some time where they can't throw more fireballs at you.

It also helps to pay attention to the speed of their fireballs. Slow fireballs have shorter recovery, so it's harder to jump over them. Fast fireballs are harder to react to, but leave them open for longer.

[Tim]

Depends on who you're playing as

[noi tinh yeu ket thuc]

be really passive my dude, and they have to do the others move

[Mememancer]

First of all, I'm sorry for any emotional damage we shotos have caused.

Your strategy for dealing with zoning will vary on who you play as, so that's an important detail. Everyone will have one thing in common; anticipating or reading when someone wants to throw a fireball. If you get the read and jump in early enough at the right range, you will punish.

Some characters have armored, crouched or projectile invincible moves that can avoid or tank the projectile (Zangief's charged HP, OD headbutt, Blanka's/Sim's slide, or Manon's renverse) . Everyone has drive impact. When you're close enough and you see a clear pattern, you can drive impact through a fireball you see coming for a big punish.


Don't jump in on slow or OD fireballs if you're not anticipating them. light/slow fireballs start up and travel slower, but their recovery is faster. Ryu also has light hashogeki, which can work as a bait since its recovery is much faster than hadouken.

Don't feel bad, I still get the urge to jump when I see Juri's fireball lurching towards me.

[ysyz]

"Hadoken + Shoryuken Combo Spammers"

This isn't a novel challenge. This is one of the most basic challenges in fighting games; A multi-decade old equation that you can apply to a vast amount of challenges in SF6. Look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEIAy7kAeWE

Read chapter one (Everything You Need to Know About Fighting Games) of Fighting Game Primer - Masher to Master, which is freely available online).

[Zeel Ara]

Yea it depends a lot on who you're playing as. Most characters have very reliable tools, but there are a few that rely on whiff baiting DP with neutral jumps or edging so close that they can either punish fireball with a fast jump-in or a throw. You can also jump in just outside DP range and even if they don't take the bait you're still in position to force them to engage in strike/throw gameplay.

But without knowing your character there are no straightforward answers.

Fireball/DP is pretty much the first big jump on the learning curve as a new player and it takes everyone some time and effort to get over it. You have the right mentality though, in asking for advice rather than telling yourself that there's no way to beat it or that it is somehow "unfair". You can learn it quick, I am certain of that.

EDIT: And for the love of everything, ignore the people talking about it as if it is a problem with the game or that you are inherently at a disadvantage against it. It is one of the most fundamental aspects of fighting games. They are the people who gave up at the first sign of a challenge and instead decided to play victims. You do *not* want to learn from scrub mentality.