Modern controls should have the same damage scaling as classic

[Satsui No Hoes]

Modern controls have low damage scaling and it’s not fair and should be the same as classic controls.

[.doh]

no !!

[Copper]

I think the lower damage actually gives you more control. Modern has a method of going lower than the lowest damage a classic player can reach. You can't ever know if the Modern player is hitting you with a weak fast move or if they opted to input the command for normal damage.

[Dank Sidious]

They have the same damage scaling what are you on about?

[Włodzimierz Szaranowicz]

Modern Controls make the game easier already, piss off

[Cyvanhoe]

Originally posted by Oku:

Think of Modern like "Light Sword" and Classic like "Heavy Sword".

Modern sacrifices damage in exchange for faster inputs and easier combos.

Classic sacrifices speed and ease of use for more damage.

A modern at the same level as a classic user will always have a few frames advantage due to needing less button inputs to do the same move, but the classic user needs to actually land fewer hits to get a KO.

If you let modern do the same damage as classic, there would literally be no reason to run classic. Modern would just flat out be better because it's the same damage with a speed advantage.

That's why the damage nerf on modern is fair.

While I do like the comparison a lot, you do leave out the fact that some combos/moves of a character are simply not possible on Modern controls. So, it's not only damage you sacrifice, it's versatility as well, and you get VERY predictable.

So, that AND the damage reduction is a little much, I think.

[76561198856165040]

Originally posted by Mixes:

Here's a tip for people actually playing the game to improve and doesn't want to have your hand held because learning hurts, if you are facing someone on Modern Controls, win 1 game and leave on them. Let them know they're not worth rematching. Idc if it's freelo.

I think that has the opposite effect tho. I was facing someone who barely won. They were pretty bad. I offered a rematch and they quit knowing they couldn't handle it. Then faced another who beat me the first time, I destroyed them The second since I figured out their strat. Completely steam rolled them, offered a rematch and they quit knowing they couldn't handle it. Basically, it has the opposite effect of negatively impacting the one who didn't choose to quit.

[Dank Sidious]

Originally posted by Cyvanhoe:

Originally posted by Oku:

Think of Modern like "Light Sword" and Classic like "Heavy Sword".

Modern sacrifices damage in exchange for faster inputs and easier combos.

Classic sacrifices speed and ease of use for more damage.

A modern at the same level as a classic user will always have a few frames advantage due to needing less button inputs to do the same move, but the classic user needs to actually land fewer hits to get a KO.

If you let modern do the same damage as classic, there would literally be no reason to run classic. Modern would just flat out be better because it's the same damage with a speed advantage.

That's why the damage nerf on modern is fair.

While I do like the comparison a lot, you do leave out the fact that some combos/moves of a character are simply not possible on Modern controls. So, it's not only damage you sacrifice, it's versatility as well, and you get VERY predictable.

So, that AND the damage reduction is a little much, I think.

But you already have access to full damage version of the special and supers...

[C1REX]

Originally posted by Fmato:

You can still do classic inputs with Modern you know and it doesn't have the reduced damage.

Depends of a character there are specials you can’t do manually with modern controls. Some command grabs come to my mind.

Also supers I think you can’t do manually. Not sure.

Additionally some combos seems to be impossible on modern controls. So shorter combos that do 20% less damage per hit gives what? 30% weaker combos?

[Sm Izumi]

You sacrifice way too much and i don't give a single fk about you guys crying about it or taunting people using it.

If it's in THE GAME and ALLOWED in Ranked, Capcom has to balance it or delete it.

I don't want them to up the damages this is silly but to give the full kit at our disposition to choose. Look at the world tour editing of move. Let people pick the moves missing in the character's kit and let us map our own selection.

Thus that way you still have predictability during the sets but have your own combos and options. Instead of having the same that is totally easy to counter.

[Something really stupid]

The best way to illustrate this i think is looking at the continuity of damage and balancing within the gaming medium in general. when looking at games that have combat, all across the board you have clear through lines with the trends in balancing. One of these through lines is having lighter, faster weapons deal less damage per hit, but have enough hits their dps equates to heavier slower counterparts. You see it in monster hunter with dual blades and greatswords. you see it in shooters with smg's and shotguns. the other through line you'll mainly see is the relation between the ease of access for certain attacks and combos in games, and the damage output they do as a result. hack n slashes are known for this, difficult combos are more often than not rewarding as all hell

You see it in fighting games as well. in a footsie fighter, there are 2 major components to damage scaling. the power of the inputs you're doing, and your combo duration. for example, tekken, street fighter, guilty gear; they all have damage scale down the larger the combo number. this is to combat infinite combos. you're punished for it to make sure you don't have immediate one combo victories, and it forces you to instead create combos with the best possible inputs in the least amount of them, resulting in shorter but stronger combos. The other componet is the inputs themselves. the harder to land/execute, the more damage you will inevitably deal. look at the difference between a light punch and a heavy punch. heavy punch will land significantly less, but hits way harder and rewards a lot more. as opposed to light punch which is frame 1 hit, not very rewarding, but still has it's purpose to open combos and punish.

now in the case of modern vs classic controls. those two themes are still heavily in place. with modern, due to the ease of access to the attacks, you get pretty much confirmed combos. sure they're the same ones rinse and repeat, but they're still there. and you have the tools to use them effectively as well, there will always be that reliable opener, that punish, what have you. but the key thing is it's easier. but it's not just that it's easier, it's inherently faster. you have guaranteed combos that will come out faster, resulting in more combos over time. if the damage scaling was the exact same, in all honesty, you would out dps a classic control scheme which then kinda defeats the whole point of even having classic.

Here comes the difficult part about it all. the biggest challenge fighting games face in the market is new player accessibility. new players have hellish times cause the games are a nightmare to learn, as a result, you wont get new players much. on the other hand, veterans don't always move to the fancy new game, there's plenty of people still playing marvel vs capcom for the game cube, or smash melee. it's not good for the longevity of the franchise. the only way to grow is to make it friendly for new players.
But how do you do that in a way that the veterans aren't punished for it? How do you give new players the tools to compete while the vets still feel it's a fair trade? in this case, capcom chose two options:
1. The timing for combos in classic mode have opened up significantly. there was a time sf combos required frame perfect timing. thankfully, they've opened that timing up a lot and made it a lot easier to buffer attacks and time things. this alone makes it super accessible. im a vet in fighting games but admittedly not in street fighter. the tight timing windows were always too much for me so i could never get in, but finally i feel like i can and the combos actually feel fair
2. the new modern control scheme. This isn't necessarily a new concept, it's been seen in blazblue and guilty gear before. a 1 button control scheme that gives NASTY combos but does less damage. This time around, they did essentially the same thing, but they limited the damage scaling to 20%, a lot more damage than previous iterations of the modern control scheme. now new players who aren't really good with fighters have a whole new tool to take on vets and even that playing field. yes there are flaws within the system, but that's gonna be the case regardless when you have a 1 button command scheme in a motion fighter. you do however, have more consistent attacks and combos. you're rewarded just for getting that first hit in and letting the game do the rest. the only real way to even that field is make the harder to execute version stronger.

I genuinely sympathise with the feeling that you're left in the dust or you don't do enough, but i can solidly say, you have the tools to win the fights. Fighitng games are all knowledge, whether you invest your time to learning modern or classic controls is up to you. Personally i feel sf6 has done a great job of still giving you a game to play. world tour mode is expansive. the learning tools for the game are pretty decent. the game is accessible in a more arcade sense. But it's still a pvp game that is ALL about skill. modern or classic, gotta put in the work to walk the walk. if you're dissatisfied with modern damage, try learning classic when you can. alternatively, find ways to punish when classic makes mistakes or learn what buttons give you better punishes and openers. not to mention, you still have access to motion control inputs with the specials, there's lots you can do to mixup the modern playstyle and keep in the game.

[Dr. Acula]

Originally posted by Cyvanhoe:

Honestly, I am kinda with the OP on this point, and this is coming from someone who played the Street Fighter series all the way through from its first installment on home computers.

Yes, I am THAT old. xD

So, I am very used to Classic controls, though I will say that I have never been the competitive type. So, no tournaments or such had ever gotten my interest, in any of the games that had those.

However, Modern controls already put the user at a significant disadvantage against someone using Classic, because their moves are absolutely predictable. They quite literally can not do ANY other moves than what Modern gives them, which automatically makes them Counter-bait and Punished into a loss from anyone using Classic who realizes their opponent is using Modern controls. Which should be very easy to notice right away.

And, to a classic user, it should actually not make a difference at all what their opponent uses as controls, since they should expect their opponent to throw the moves at them perfectly anyways. The challenge in tournaments is to know the counters to what your opponent is throwing at you, not how well their input executes are.

Therefore, I think the damage reduction kinda is unnecessary.

It would ruin the experience for A LOT of classic players below good/pro level. It's annoying enough as is.

[Castyles]

Not the same but just nerf it to 10% less damage, instead of 20%.

[Dank Sidious]

Again what is this lower damage scaling people are talking about? You have access to full damage moves in modern. Only the shortcuts do less damage.

[C1REX]

Originally posted by Dank Sidious:

Again what is this lower damage scaling people are talking about? You have access to full damage moves in modern. Only the shortcuts do less damage.

Not every special and super is possible by manual input on modern controls. Not every combo is possible by manual input.
Sure, you can do most of them manually but then what’s the point choosing modern?

[Dank Sidious]

Originally posted by C1REX-PL:

Originally posted by Dank Sidious:

Again what is this lower damage scaling people are talking about? You have access to full damage moves in modern. Only the shortcuts do less damage.

Not every special and super is possible by manual input on modern controls. Not every combo is possible by manual input.
Sure, you can do most of them manually but then what’s the point choosing modern?

Instant DP and 1 frame supers.