The character balance in this game is just disgusting

[Hidebehind]

Jamie and Kimberly can't use fireballs, which means they can't shorten the distance without taking damage. They can only fight in melee, but they do have a damage penalty. Why. No, seriously, why?

Marisa and Zangief are a joke. Marisa can't do anything to a jumping opponent, if Marisa is cornered, she's done. She has no DP, she has no anti-air attacks. She has terrible low kicks and no fireballs. I don't want to talk about Zangief at all, everyone knows he's literally the weakest character.

Lily. In order for Lily's moves to not be complete garbage, she has to get a wind charge. Seems balanced, right? Well, or you can use Honda and unstoppable head attack with insanely small recovery. How did the developer create Lily, Honda, and Blanka in the same game?

Juri scares newbies, but in reality she's a character who is afraid to press anything, as she gets either a fireball to the face or a headbutt for any attempts to play aggressively. As a result, a character who was originally intended to be aggressive is forced to play defense for most of the match, because she needs to earn her fireball, because she's a fighter, not Harry Poterr, who only needs to say "hadouken".

Monon. All of her moves can be punished, and the only thing she has is a command grab, so here, no one will let you use a command grab. Nobody! You'll end up standing still the whole game and hitting MP the whole match, because you have nothing else. Oh yeah, did I mention Manon has no DP? Well, she has no fireballs, no DP. What did she get in return? Nothing!

So, you read this and it seems like it's not so bad, there are characters with clear weaknesses and strengths, it's kind of how it should be, right? No! Because people play as three brothers! Luke, Ryu and of course Ken! Characters that don't have a single weakness or reduced damage, they all have fireballs, great damage, easy combinations and DP. Let's not forget the fourth brother, DJ, who also doesn't care about the rules of this game, he also has absolutely everything! Honda and Blanka, where all you have to do is learn two and a half moves and you're already playing as Justin Wong, Daigo, Punk and so on.

Cammy seems balanced, but she doesn't stand a chance against these guys in an equal fight.
Rashid is a clear example where you can pay to win. No! He's better than most characters, but still several times weaker than the four brothers!

[Peach Pachyderm]

Girl, you trippin'

[Peddie]

Don't most of the pros consider Ryu to be pretty dang mediocre in this stage of the game? And isn't Cammy considered A to S tier depending on which pro you ask?

(But also tiers don't matter until you're in the highest skill brackets, the game sincerely isn't so broken that you can't find a way in with your favourite no matter who they are)

[Shoah Kahn]

The game is very poorly balanced -- we all know that, even if shills just spam "git gud" or ignore it. The problem is that Capcom won't fix any of it, at least, until after the middle of 2024; and it's questionable what they'll fix anyway, given the state they are willing to leave the game in for over a year.

All one has to do is look at the character usage data -- the "biggest launch roster" with the least diverse char. use -- to see who the most broken characters are, and watch a half-dozen sets to gauge what the broken mechanics are -- DR's into lows and overheads; random DI's; Death Corners; throw loops.

The proof of the curdled pudding is in the vomiting, and no one without the palate of dung beetle can stomach more than a teaspoon of SF6's regurgitated baby gruel.

[Hidebehind]

Originally posted by Peddie:

Don't most of the pros consider Ryu to be pretty dang mediocre in this stage of the game? And isn't Cammy considered A to S tier depending on which pro you ask?

(But also tiers don't matter until you're in the highest skill brackets, the game sincerely isn't so broken that you can't find a way in with your favourite no matter who they are)

The number of Ryu in the Tournaments is still high. Professional players at the beginning said that Manon A, and Juri is almost S, but in the end a huge number of Kens, Ryu, Luke and tp take part in tournaments.

Professionals can say anything, but the reality is that the last tournament won the zoner. This is not a game about close combat skills, but a game that is effective at a long distance. This is a lot to say about the importance of this mechanics in every character.

[Samvega]

Originally posted by Shoah Kahn:

All one has to do is look at the character usage data -- the "biggest launch roster" with the least diverse char. use

Explain to me how character usage isn't diverse.

[Peddie]

Popularity isn't equal to strength... most people pick Ryu because he's like, the default character, the familiar mainstay in every Street Fighter. But if projectiles are such a huge issue for you, Virtua Fighter is always there for you, or Tekken, or SoulCalibur, or DoA... or...

[Purple Monkey]

Your overall point is correct but your individual assessments are way off.
Marisa, for example, is one of the strongest characters.

[Hidebehind]

Originally posted by Purple Monkey:

Your overall point is correct but your individual assessments are way off.
Marisa, for example, is one of the strongest characters.

Marisa is a good character, Juri is a good character, but these are not SF characters.
Marisa is really stronger than most characters, but Marisa is much weaker against popular characters.

[Shifue]

Jeez this is a lot to answer but lets try before i go to sleep. There is a extreme amount of fallacy to your argument. I will try to move from the first point and do the combo ones last. There are balance issues but I feel you are missing them. Long post ahead tl:dr at the bottom.

1) Kim is tied for 1st and with her buff she is the fastest. Kim can teleport,slide command run and adjust her jump arc making her a nightmare to deal with in the right hands. She has great oki and throw loops high corner pressure and great mix ups. She is one of 8 that does not have a projectile. Kim like the rest of her rusher class has a high amount of cancelable buttons at 8 so she has great combo potential and drive potential on top of it.

2) Jaime is the 4th fastest character has a wide amount of tools to play with. IF you max out his drinks he is at 110% damage as he starts at 90%. He has a high amount of cancelable buttons as well being 9 or 11 if you want to count command normals just like other rushers. His hp can break DI super efficiently to boot as well. His specials can cover distance fast as well Swagger step I think being the best. He as well has hi corner control throw loops and great combo abilty. He is also one of the 8 with no projectile.

3) Marisa She does have anti air and i'll admit it's not a great anti but she does have 2 of them in her cr.hp and Dimachaerus. Corners are deadly to all of the characters in the game at current due to throw loops,Drive,and mix up hits this is not unique to her however Scutum is. You can wake up into it which means they hit you you get a counter attack or maybe an attack or grab and if you do OD you have the another hit of armor and low armor as well. At this point only a throw will get you. She has some of the longest buttons in the game and some of the hardest hitting move due to her speed and lack of options.She has a few armored options and can punish a close range fireball with phalanx hoping over them. She is also one of 8 without a projectile.

4) Zangief and Manon I am just grouping together. They are both command grapplers and they even play different from each other. As well no will is going to "Let you" use command grabs and the only true safe way to beat command grabs is to jump.You can hit people out of them but it's a risk to.
Geif has some of the highest damage ingame and some of the longest reach to and a very strong armored normal button. Yes he is slow but he has many ways to make up for it with armored moves and reach. I am not going to say he is god tier but the fact is he is not for the faint of heart you have to learn him and know patience to be successful. Also again also part of the 8 with no projectiles.
Manon on the other hand. Her moves are no more punishable then the rest of the cast. She also has some of the highest damaging moves in the game. She also has some of the longest reach in the game and some of the biggest hurt boxes. She has some of the best anti air options in the game reward wise. If you build her medals you are 3 throws away from ending the game.

4) Juri she is in the top of on every bracket with capcoms numbers. She is a rusher as well with a high amount of buttons that can cancel. She has strong combos and drive throw loops and corner pressure. Again this is something all rushers have. She has strong pokes and can cover ground fast. Her fireball is more pressure /zoning then mean for damage. Everyone has to bounce between offensive and defensive fighting she is no exception.

5) The shotos (ryu,ken,and luke) The shoto class is always the jack of all trades and well rounded. Ryu is the weakest of the 3. His whole game plan is on you the whole time he is the most balanced of all characters so much it's more a weakness as he has no real gimmicks and is very straight forward. Luke is strong and can fall into the rusher class as well his fire balls are not full screen unless OD. He require good timings to make his kit work well. Ken is extremely strong at current but has the worst fireball of the three but like everyone he can be beat i advise keeping away from corners. He has no plus on block moves as well so he can be punished hard.

6) Dj I am keeping this one extremely short Yes he does have tools for everything. He has a ton of glaring weaknesses as well.Committal pokes without cancel windows
Highly distance specific combos that are prone to dropping,Inconsistent anti-airs, Losing very hard in burnout. Then being a charge character to boot. He is more akin to guile being that they are mix up they can both play short and long rather well. Guile on the other hand is the better zoner of the two.

7) If you read this far congrats this is a lot of typing. IF you really want me to go into the fact of why you are off on honda, blanka and cammy. I can do this in another post i am getting tired and this is getting redundant. Yes i am skipping lily as well.

Round up and the TL:DR all in one.
The simple fact is you can point out characters don't have the same tools and this is true. If you don't take the time to learn the match ups or play to their strengths that is on the player. Everyone has a match up in the game that is hard and it still doesn't mean you can't win it. Yes does the game have balance issues? Yes is does but not in the way you are thinking. This game has had a mix of characters like this for well over 20 years and many of them have been and are high tier without projectiles.

Basically this is the moment you need to decide are you going to get better at the game and learn? Are you going to quit playing cause you don't want to learn or don't want to play one of these other characters? I mean you can keep just looking through a small lens but honestly why bother if you are 100% unhappy? I am never 100% happy with this game as there are issues. However i except the fact that i will have rough matches but i will always look to overcome them. Will you?

[Shoah Kahn]

Originally posted by Samvega:

Explain to me how character usage isn't diverse.

It's self-explanatory...[www.eventhubs.com]

[Hidebehind]

Shifue
Ugh, that's a lot of text. I have no problem with wins (except for Juri lol). My Marisa has winrate 70%+, Juri 50%, Chun-Li 56%, etc. This is my first 2D fighting game that I spend a lot of time in, so I'm happy with my progress.
I'm getting better after every match. As much as I hate this champion team, my winrate is still 50%+ against this team.

I didn't say these characters don't have advantages, I said their disadvantages are absurd, their disadvantages are much stronger than their advantages. We can go on and on about the advantages of any of these characters, but it doesn't make sense since I've met 8 Ken, 10 Luke, 5 Ryu and 1 single JamieI don't care what Jamie's good at. The next match with him will happen in a week or a month.
People don't want to play as these characters! They prefer the weakest of the strongest brothers over any other character. I meet Blanca more often than Juri or Marisa.

Why would people want to use a character with obvious weaknesses to zoners for example, when they can use the master for everything? Look at the new character - he's a clone of those brothers. He has his own mechanics and peculiarities, but in fact Rashid has been given all the advantages in this game. Why? Is Rashid a new character or just another copy of Ken with DP, projectiles, great speed, good damage + frames on block, etc? Rashid has no personality, just like Ken and Ryu - he's just a man who uses a tornado instead of a fireball!
These characters are used because they are jack of all trades. Such characters should not exist in a game where Zangiev was given nothing against zoners. Every character should have strengths and weaknesses. Manon sacrifices safety in exchange for the range of her moves. JP is strong at long range, but vulnerable when the opponent is close. A jack of all trades simply shouldn't exist!

Me Zangiev vs. Yogi? Whoop! I'm in trouble! Me JP vs. Juri? Oops! I'm in trouble! Me Manon vs. an american with a ridiculous haircut? I'm in trouble! Me Ken vs anyone? My opponent's in trouble!
If Aki looks like Rashid, I will stop playing this game, as the jack of all trades is the laziest character design ever.

[X]

This dood out here askin for Marisa to have a DP.

[Hidebehind]

Originally posted by X:

This dood out here askin for Marisa to have a DP.

If a character has fireballs, they must not have DP. If a character has DP, he must not have fireballs.
A character can indeed have neither fireballs nor DP like Marisa, but there should be no characters in the game that have both.

[Melheck]

you're gonna get run over by the shoto army

[FAT WANZER]

Dude marissa is good i whiff 1 heavy punch or forgot that slap combo not work unless counter hit and does 2 medium,the 2nd hit that got blocked and i lost 60% health as gief